Meniere's Disease “100 Percent Cured” After Stem Cell Procedure in Germany?

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by Molan, Apr 20, 2013.

  • tinnitus forum
    1. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      President of the UFC Dana white has claimed that his Menieres disease has been cured after undergoing a type of Stem cell treatment. It involves using the patients own blood and injecting it back into them. See link below for the article,

      http://www.mmafightcorner.com/2013/...00-percent-cured-stem-cell-procedure-germany/

      From wikipedia,

      Orthokine is an experimental medical procedure in which a patient's own blood is extracted, manipulated, and then reintroduced to the body as an anti-inflammatory drug to reduce chronic pain and osteoarthritis.[1][2][3] Known in the United States as Regenokine,[4] the process removes about 2 US fluid ounces (59 ml) of blood from a patient's arm, which is then incubated at a slightly raised temperature.[1][5][6] The liquid is then placed in a centrifuge until its constituent parts are separated. The middle yellowish layer is dense with agents that are believed to stop an arthritic agent known as interleukin-1, which causes degeneration of the joints and the breakdown of cartilage.[1][3][7] That serum is injected into the patient's affected area.[5] The procedure reduces pain and discomfort in the joint.[3] The treatment generally lasts five days, with six shots of the serum into the affected area.[6][8] It is normal for a patient to receive annual injections to ease the joint discomfort.[3]


      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthokine



      If this is true it is very interesting that if it could heal inner ear nerve damage in the case of Menieres then maybe it has great potential with Tinnitus and hearing loss perhaps?
       
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    2. Molan
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      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Some more info,

      Brian Halpern, M.D., chief of the Primary Care Sports Medicine Service at Hospital for Special Surgery says this, when talking about using this kind of treatment for knee osteoarthritis.

      “You take a person’s blood, you spin it down, you concentrate the platelets, and you inject a person’s knee with their own platelets in a concentrated form,” said Dr. Halpern. “This then activates growth factors and stem cells to help repair the tissue

      For the full article where this quote came from please see below,

      http://www.hss.edu/newsroom_prp-treatment-potential-for-knee-osteoarthritis.asp


      I have not looked in depth yet but from a quick google search I cannot see any information about this procedure being tried for inner ear problems with the exception of the UFC president Dana white who reported this a few days ago for Menieres and claims he is now 100% cured. This was after unsuccessful surgery which he tried first which he said actually made his condition worse.

      It will be interesting to see what happens if they do try this on a person who has hearing loss and/or Tinnitus.
       
    3. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Melbourne, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2012
      Big fan of ol' Dana White and the UFC, great to see he is doing well. I don't know if this treatment would be effective with tinnitus or hearing loss to be honest. Dana has suffered from inner ear issues because he got jumped and punched in the head quite a few times when he was younger, and still has pretty bad hearing loss (he mentioned this at the most recent media scrum) which is still there even though the Meniere's is gone.

      This treatment seems to deal with chronic inflammation, but I could be wrong.
       
    4. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Hi Yonkapin, I wasn't aware he still had bad hearing loss as at the last Interview I saw him in yesterday he seemed to hear the reporters just fine. He caused abit of a storm by saying sport jiu-jitsu was boring!

      My personal opinion is that Tinnitus is primarily caused by nerve damage. This is also true for Menieres. At least in theory this could have potential but until it is actually tried on someone with Tinnitus/ and or hearing loss we do not know.

      Still I thought it was a story worth posting. I might send an email to the people in Germany who perform this procedure and see what they say about it.
       
    5. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Melbourne, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2012
      Definitely wouldn't hurt to ask them, and I think everyone here would be very interested to find out! Haha yeah that BJJ bit caused a bit of a stir on the forums!

      http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/4/18/4240858/dana-white-ufc-on-fox-7-pre-fight-scrum-video

      He talks about the procedure and his progress at the beginning of this media scrum for anyone interested. A reporter asks how his hearing is and he mentions it still being bad, but his Meniere's is 100% gone. It's great that this is getting some exposure.
       
    6. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      Rich people cure their ailments and we don't know about it.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    7. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Melbourne, Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2012
      "The procedure cost €6,000 (about $7,400) as of July 2012.[8] The treatment is not covered by health insurance. Chris Renna, a preventive medicine specialist who has referred American patients to Wehling since 2003, said that "because of its expense and status, the treatment is for the 1 and 2 percent of our society."[11]"

      $7,400 doesn't seem too bad for a (possible) cure for Meniere's imo, I'm pretty sure this is actually cheaper than some tinnitus treatments available (that HIFU brain thing or whatever it was, and I know acoustic CR costs a ton aswell)
       
    8. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Hi yonkapin, yeah it's strange because Dana white has always seemed liked he had very good hearing. I wouldn't have guessed he had issues with it.

      Since Menieres causes problems in a different part of the inner ear maybe they tailored the procedure to just that part of it and didn't target the other part responsible for hearing. When I get organized next week I will send an email to them asking their opinion on it's potential effectiveness with Tinnitus/hearing loss. Worth a shot anyway.

      It is expensive but it would be a bargain if it cured Tinnitus! At least it isn't something like 20,000 - 50,000 then that would be out of most peoples price range.
       
    9. Aisling

      Aisling Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      18/9/12
      Who is Germany does this?
       
    10. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
    11. Aisling

      Aisling Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      18/9/12
      Ok thanks for that. I'd be interested in the back pain part too I have back pain daily
       
    12. Grant1

      Grant1 Member

      Molan, thanks for posting this. I was going to post it today if nobody had done so and I have not been in the forum's since Dana White's announcement.

      I am definitely going to e-mail with some individuals in the medical field involved in tinnitus treatment and ask for their opinion.
       
    13. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      This is really major news. It's actually the first time that I've read about anything being cured by stem cells.

      In the US, stem cell research was handicapped by religion and politics during the Bush administration. It's a shame that so much time has been lost developing stem cell medical applications.

      I've always found it amazing that every cell in the human body carries all the information needed to make any cell in the human body. Theoretically, stem cells can make any cell, including replacing damaged coclear hair cells.
       
    14. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      No worries everyone I'm glad to post anything that has any potential,


      Well I emailed them about this but they only replied asking me to send my medical records to them. I said before I do anything like that or make plans to see them I asked had they specifically used the treatment for Tinnitus before? Well they haven't bothered getting back to me yet and I sent that 2nd email on Tuesday. As soon as I hear anything I will keep everyone updated.

      Karl, yes it is amazing. I was particularly intrigued when I found out there are Stem cells in our inner ear.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22102534

      The question is though why they don't automatically fix things in our ear? I have seen evidence that they can partially regenerate some small amounts of damage which was previously not thought possible. Regeneration should really be the goal of the various Tinnitus organizations in my opinion. Not these ridiculous sound therapys.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    15. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause:
      Who Knows
      Molan/Karl, thank you again Karl for the PM regarding this thread. I just saw the interview with Dana, he did say the only way to get in was to have a referral. Very interesting, I have been diagnosed with Meniere's because of the pressure in mt ear, but the only symptom I have is tinnitus. I do not get dizzy or sick to my stomach. I will discuss this with my ENT and a specialist that deals with only the ear.
       
    16. Molan
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      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Well they finally got back to me today,

      Basically said their hands are tied commenting about using this therapy for Tinnitus. Regenokine and Orthokine procedures are used in orthopaedic applications and and have been verified for Osteoarthritis and spine disease by double-blind studies. Due to there being no double-blind placebo studies using this for Tinnitus it makes difficult to talk about. That was the general gist of the email.

      They said again if I was interested in this to send them my medical records and they would go from there.
       
    17. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause:
      Who Knows
      Molan, this is what they sent me, it's pretty much as you said.

      Dear Mr. K

      thank you for your email and your interest in our work.

      We would like to point out that Regenokine and Orthokine procedures are used in orthopaedic applications and were verified for Osteoarthritis and spine disease by double-blind studies.

      The use of this procedure in other indications like the one described is an off label use which we do not want to promote actively, as there are no double- blind studies in this indication.

      If you still continue to be interested in Regenokine we would appreciate if you could send us the last written medical reports/findings.

      To get a better insight about the Regenokine program you can purchase his published book
      "The End of pain." on Amazon kindle and iTunes. www.the-end-of-pain.com

      Please don't hesitate to contact us for further questions.

      Best regards,
      Jasmin Mukian


      I am going to read more about (PRP) Platelet Rich Plasma treatments also.....
       
    18. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      @gary

      Apologies I somehow missed your post!

      yes that is exactly what they wrote to me. They obviously copy and paste the same standard response to everyone it seems. Someone on another thread said that although Dana white had his menires cured he apparently still has tinnitus. I did not know that but am waiting for a source to confirm this before I accept it as a fact.

      I don't really know exactly Twitter works in exact detail but I do know Dana interacts with alot of fans through it. Might be worth someone trying to contact him directly through Twitter to see if he still has Tinnitus or not.
       
    19. James White
      Anime

      James White Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Toulouse, France
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2013
      Cause:
      Maybe loud music. Not sure.
      As i've said in the other thread, i don't know where i came up with that info.

      If you can have confirmation from him, it would be very interesting. But still, i think Menieres tinnitus is different than the most common type (noise induced, etc)
       
    20. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      As of 30/5/13 there is no known source to say that he still has tinnitus. Dana white said he is 100% cured so one would assume that includes his Tinnitus.
       
    21. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      Molan -
      That's the way I read it. Nothing about tinnitus for Dana White.

      Meniere's disease and tinnitus are very much related, since both involve cochlear hair cells. I agree with another post you made, that the tinnitus professional organizations should take serious note of this development. It make just be the answer we're looking for.
       
    22. James White
      Anime

      James White Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Toulouse, France
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2013
      Cause:
      Maybe loud music. Not sure.
      If you look up on Google, you'll find out Orthokine is not a stem cell treatment so ... what are they doing in Germany ?
       
    23. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      James if you check the 2nd comment on this thread you will find it's already been explained how this type of treatment activates a person's stem cells.

      Agreed Karl that was definetly how it came across to me. If we could somehow have this confirmed from Dana himself I think this would be a huge step foward. There must be some way in this age of social media to contact him and get a direct answer?

      Afterall he interacts with fans all the time on his twitter and I remember he offered to pay to fly one over and meet them face to face because they questioned his integrity on something. In fact he has argued with quite a few trolls on Twitter so it can't be that difficult surely!
       
    24. OBkB

      OBkB Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2008
      I have had Meniers for about 5 years & just recently read about Dana White being cured & how so i immediately did some research. I read about the procedure Orthokine & the same procedure here in the US called Regenikine which is done by a Lifespan medicine in California & also in Texas. I contacted the office in Ca. And was told they only to the treatment for the muscle/joint problems & you had to be a candidate cor that to receive the treatment. The woman i spoke with sAid they had been receiving many inquiries about the procedure for meniers treatment after the arctle came out about Dana White. She said she couldnt talk about whites procedure even if she did know anything, and added that thier office had contacted the german office & was told the procedure was only being done for muscle/joint issues.... I also got exaclty the same email word for word from dr whelings office in german as the commenter above. So I imagine with Dana Whites money you can have anything done but I wonder why if they do the procedure in California, why do these major athletes go to Germany for the procedure? I was also told by the california office that the initial consoltation to be deemed a candidate was $400 & the procedure on one joint was about $10k. Backs were more expensive & so forth. You would also need to be around for about a week & a half to complete the treatment. Another question i have is if this is primarily a joint issue and they treat the affected area, would you receive this treatment directly to your ear or would treatment in another area just by chance cure the meniers?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    25. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Team Tech Team Trobalt Team Research Team Awareness

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause:
      Syringing
      It's difficult to get his attention because he has over 2 million followers and gets a ton of mentions every day.

      https://twitter.com/search/realtime?q=@DanaWhite&src=typd

      Keeping up with that amount of traffic is hard for him for sure. Who knows, some celebrities have hired staff to manage twitter and they pick some interesting mentions for the celebrity to see and answer to. I don't know how Dana does it.

      His FB page could be one way to try (he has a link to it on his Twitter page): https://www.facebook.com/DanaWhite


      This is an interesting development...
       
    26. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005

      Hi OBkB,

      They also do this in New York too,

      http://www.nyspinemedicine.com/proc...ction-system-treatment-for-osteoarthritis.php


      I'ii have to go back check properly when I've got time but if I remember correctly the difference in Germany is that they incubate the blood for 24 hours before they inject it. I think that is supposed to increase it's effectiveness but I'm sketchy on the details at moment. Or what I have just written might just be how Orthokine/Regenikine differs from a standard PRP (Protein rich plasma) treatments. Or perhaps the Doctor in Germany is more experienced and has a better success rate maybe? Not 100% sure
       
    27. Samsara

      Samsara Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      This looks like it has great potential! Why hasn't the ATA or BTA even bothered investigating this and asking Dana white or that place in Germany all about it?
       
    28. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      All this sounds like HIV cure of Magic Johnoson... Who have money and connections, there is drug for him... :/
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    29. Molan
      No Mood

      Molan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2005
      Update everyone and I'm afraid it's bad news. Someone has managed to get in touch with Dana white to ask him the question and unfortunately yes he does still have Tinnitus.

      I'ii paste his reply here,

      I still have that but it is NOTHING compared
      To minieres. Craig Paligian has it too and there
      Is nothing you can do for it.

      This was posted in an MMA forum where someone asked him about this issue,

      http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum.posts&forum=1&thread=2181814&page=2

      Thank you to the person who asked Dana this and if you are reading this thread then please let us know who you are so we can give credit for your efforts.

      Obviously this is frustrating news given that he stated he was 100% cured? He clearly has a different definition of what 100% means then most people. However there may still be potential in this kind of treatment if perhaps some adjustments were made coupled with abit of experimentation perhaps? A similar therapy called PRP could yield promise in this way but also companies using plain old adult stem cells could help regenerate damaged nerve cells. Regenexx is one such company but I do not know if they have ever used it before for hearing loss and Tinnitus issues.

      http://www.regenexx.com/regenexx-scp-stem-cell-plasma/

      I know this is disappointing news but if Menieres can be alleviated through some lesser known therapy then perhaps there is also something out there for Tinnitus as well. We just need to find it!
       
      • Like Like x 1
    30. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      Thanks Molan for finding and then pursuing this story. I tried for about a half hour using every Google combo to locate information about this from academic/scientific sources and had no luck. But I'm sure there'll be something about this treatment in a few months in either a scientific journal or as case study in a medical journal.

      You note that Dana still has tinnitus. I wonder if it was alleviated--either short or long term? Still, this is great news for Meniere's sufferers.

      The treatment is definitely exciting. Do you know where he was injected for the Meniere's? Injections into the ear drum, for example, are tricky because of dosing issues. Some ear problems are treated by using the Round Window Membrane. That's what they do for AM-101. Utilizing nanotechnology, the RWM opens up the cochlea to many new treatments.

      Here's a link to this technology: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22475648

      I tried to get on the regenexx site but the site was down. Will try later.
       
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