Computers & Tinnitus Part 2

Discussion in 'Support' started by Michael Leigh, Dec 16, 2015.

    1. Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Computers and Tinnitus

      I recently wrote a post titled: Computers and Tinnitus. For those that would like to read it please click on the link.

      https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/computers-and-tinnitus.12059/.

      It is quite understandable that some people will have doubts as to whether tinnitus can be made worse by computer use. I hasten to add, not everyone with tinnitus will be affected by near-field computer use but I know I am. It is for this reason, I have placed my laptop in another room and use a wireless keyboard, mouse and monitor in another. I also have a desktop tower in another part of my home and this is placed in a cupboard, and use wireless mouse etc with that.

      Below is a message from a gentleman from another forum, which was written 4 years ago. He was having a lot of trouble with his tinnitus. I suggested that he move his computer into another room and use a wireless keyboard, mouse and monitor. He thought this a little drastic; so I suggested he reduce his computer use and see what happens. Approximately 3 weeks later he posted this message. He was in his 70s at the time. I have left his message intact so please excuse the typos.

      Around the same time, I found a website that listed scientific reports about the effects a computer can have on tinnitus. The website is no longer active but I have a copy of the report, please find it below.

      Big Improvement, by Paul Murphy.
      Thanks to a member on here! ..... but I can't remember who he is :(
      Someone on here said tinittus could be made worse by computer use ..... so I've reduced my time on computers and my tinnitus has almost gone.
      ..... so whoever you are ...... A big thankyou from me



      http://www.eurotinnitus.com/tinnitus.php?lang=en&id=9983.inc
      Scientific reports

      Tinnitus may be influenced by sensitivity to electromagnetic radiation (EMR).
      Most tinnitus comes from damage to the microscopic endings of the hearing nerve in the inner ear.

      If you are older, advancing age is generally accompanied by a certain amount of hearing nerve impairment and tinnitus. If you are younger, exposure to loud noise is probably the leading cause of tinnitus, and often damages hearing as well. There are many causes for "subjective tinnitus," the noise only you can hear. Some causes are not serious (a small plug of wax in the ear canal might cause temporary tinnitus). Tinnitus can also be a symptom of stiffening of the middle ear bones (otosclerosis).

      Tinnitus may also be caused by allergy, high or low blood pressure (blood circulation problems), a tumor, diabetes, thyroid problems, injury to the head or neck, and a variety of other causes including medications such as anti-inflammatories, antibiotics, sedatives, antidepressants, and aspirin. If you take aspirin and your ears ring, talk to your doctor about dosage in relation to your size. One measure worth considering is avoidance of electromagnetic radiation (EMR)

      All electrical devices generate EMR, including computer terminals, cellular phones and microwave ovens, which can be a primary cause of hearing problems including Tinnitus. A leading Swedish scientist, Professor Mild who is on the European Commission panel of experts investigating mobile phones, confirms frequent reports of similar conditions, as does Dr Bruce Hocking, former Chief Medical Officer for Telstra, the Australian

      Telecommunications Company. In May 1997, Dr Hocking reported that people complained of developing a burning dull feeling on the side of the head where they have been using their mobile phone. It tends to come on several minutes after they made their call and may last for hours. Associated with this they may get feelings of nausea, disturbances in their vision and at times other neurological symptoms." People who spent long periods in front of computer screens often also report these symptoms.

      Today we are exposed to 100 million times more electromagnetic radiation than people 70 years ago. EMR fields have a disruptive effect on the natural energy levels of your body and cause changes in the function of cells, tissues and organs. The reason for this is that all our cells are sensitive to EMR. Some EMR microwaves operate at a frequency that could interfere with the human body\'s own electrical chemical functions and disrupt them in the same way a TV or radio signal can be interfered with.

      The result is that the body malfunctions and becomes out of balance. Without balance, we have health problems. All cell functions, including immune defense, are blocked; but above all - and this is the most important thing - the repair capacity of the cell, the ability to restore order to genetic damage is blocked. In other words, our own electromagnetic frequencies essential to our health, the repair, reproduction and replication of DNA can be altered by oscillations from outside sources of energy such as electromagnetic and electrical radiation.

      Exposure to low level electromagnetic fields has been associated with a reduction in the production of the hormone melatonin. A powerful antioxidant and part of the human immune system, melatonin is produced by the pineal gland (located in the brain) at night, explaining why it is so important to avoid exposure to EMF\'s while sleeping. At night the body cleans repairs and detoxifies itself. If it is exposed to electromagnetic stress at this time, in fact any stress, then our bodies produce water clustering which inhibits the cell\'s natural detoxifying and repairing actions and intra and extra cellular activity (e.g. electrolyte exchange).

      In 1994 cellphone interference with hearing aids was finally accepted as a fact in Australia, then in the UK and finally in the US in 1996. This is despite thousands of hearing aid wearers reporting over many years before then that GSM and US IS-54 cellphones were causing interference problems.

      Use of a proven EMR protection device such as a RayMaster is recommended as it restores the body to a balanced state within hours. This will help your body restore itself to good health and more effectively deal with problems like tinnitus.


      When I use my laptop in the conventional way something within it makes my tinnitus worse. Whether it’s EMF (electro magnetic field) that it emits or the noise from the internal hard drive spinning at 720rpm I’m not exactly sure. I have 2 laptops and they both make my tinnitus worse. Not immediately, but after about 30minutes my tinnitus starts to increase and the next day it gets louder. If I still use it by the third day my tinnitus is unbearable!

      I have a tablet computer but haven’t noticed it made my tinnitus worse. It could be that it uses a solid state internal hard drive and therefore doesn’t emit a noise which can irritate my ears. Each time that I use it It’s usually just for one hour.

      The above posts are just for information and left to the individual to make up their own mind. I won’t be answering any questions regarding scientific evidence or proof, because I have none.

      Michael
       
    2. Andersson
      Worried

      Andersson Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2012
      Never noticed anything regarding my T with electronics. Can sit 10+ hours without noticing anything.

      My computer is very quite however. Low rpm fans, no cool whine problems and sound dampened case.
      I also have speakers, hifi receiver etc on my desk.
      And I got 14 5400-7200 rpm HDD in my case :) Cannot hear them even when they are working though.

      Bad posture can make T worse when you sit at a desk or laptop etc though which most people have.
      My T got worse from just that. But got better with physical therapist and neck lower back exercises.

      I can understand it to some extent. I been at computera with coil whine or other high pitched noise. And that can make me tired and make t worse in return.

      But if you have good components and no coilwhine or other high pitched sounds from fans etc I cannot see it making it worse.
       
    3. Roger_S
      Breezy

      Roger_S Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fell asleep with the headphones on.
    4. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      It could be the fan or the internal hard drive but I'm not sure. My laptop makes very little noise and if I use it for 30mins or longer my tinnitus increases or gets a lot louder the next day. I have my computer in another room now I don't go near them. However, I use a Tablet PC not all day and don't have any problem with it. I have thought about the fan or the sound of the hard drive but as I say I'm not sure.
      Michael
       
    5. Roger_S
      Breezy

      Roger_S Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fell asleep with the headphones on.
      I have problems of my tinnitus getting louder at the pc I'm typing at right now. I have an almost silent PC, still do, but its bit louder because the power supply fan broke down and this one's louder. I'm thinking of using my other mini-PC that's completely silent but a lot less powerful. It's initial purpose is gone and buying a better silent PC is kind of useless? There's a new generation coming in a few months so I was waiting for that before going completely silent, but I'm not going to wait today. I want to know if it's the fan noise that causes my T to spike.
       
    6. Alvise
      Lurking

      Alvise Member

      Location:
      Mirano (VE)
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      sudden hearing loss on low frequencies
    7. Roger_S
      Breezy

      Roger_S Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fell asleep with the headphones on.
      Did away with the fan. I get the feeling even without the fan I get a spike, but not sure.

      @Michael Leigh

      What is a RayMaster?

      And if EMR spikes T, then does Aluminum foil protect us from T?
      I'm already wearing an alu-hat right now just in case. I'm not even kidding.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Hi Roger,

      Some people with tinnitus are affected by "near field" computer use as I am. Therefore, I now have my computer in another room and have no problems with it increasing my tinnitus. Please read the post below. I don't know what "RayMaster" is.

      All the best
      Michael

      Computers and tinnitus

      This topic has caused much discussion on tinnitus forums whenever it is mentioned. Some people refuse to believe that using a computer can make tinnitus worse, while others are more open minded about the issue. Then there are those that agree with me that using a computer can make tinnitus worse for some people, due to the EMF (electro magnetic field) that all computers emit.

      I believe it would help if I explain the way near field computer use affects me, and the steps I’ve taken to reduce my exposure to computer EMF. IF anyone decides to try my suggestions their life might become a little easier.

      In 2008 my tinnitus became increasingly worse for reasons I’m not quite sure, as I’m usually careful about being around loud sounds. One evening I was listening to a favourite symphony on my HI-FI and enjoying quite a lot turned the volume up but didn’t notice any adverse effects. It wasn’t until the next day that I noticed my tinnitus begin to increase. This continued over the next two weeks and times it was excruciating. I needed help, as there were no signs of it reducing to its previous levels.

      After various tests at ENT I was referred to a Hearing Therapist and began TRT for the second time in eleven years. I didn’t know at the time that my tinnitus would change so dramatically and affect my life for nearly five years. For two years I was unable to read a book and using a computer was a definite no. Every time I tried within a few minutes my tinnitus increased to unbearable levels that would last for days.

      At the time I knew nothing about the effects of EMF from computers but was convinced it was causing my tinnitus to increase every time I used it. I spoke with two electronic engineers that also have tinnitus and told them about my problem. They mentioned some people with tinnitus are sensitive to EMF that a computer emits. I was advised to move my PC into another room and use a: wireless keyboard, mouse and external monitor. I was prepared to try anything so bought the relevant cables, wireless keyboard and used a TV as a monitor.

      The advice that I’d been given worked for I was able to use my computer without my tinnitus becoming louder. Six years on, the computer base unit is still in another room and I use a wireless keyboard, mouse and external monitor. I also have a laptop. On many occasions, I have tried using it in the conventional way to make sure my symptoms were not psychosomatic. Each time my tinnitus becomes worse within an hour or two. I have persisted and the tinnitus reaches such unbearably levels I have to switch it off. I have passed on my experience to others that were having difficulty with their tinnitus and also use a computer. Some people have noticed an improvement after trying my suggestion, or reducing the time they’re at the computer.

      When I saw my hearing therapist in clinic, I told her what I’d done with my PC, and explained the effects of computers and EMF. That it can make tinnitus worse for some people. I was informed no other patients had mentioned it. I didn’t pursue the matter any further and let it rest. Around four weeks later I returned to clinic as part of my TRT treatment. It was then explained to me that a few of her patients had talked about noticing an increase in their tinnitus whenever using the computer.

      Michael
       
      • Like Like x 1
    9. Roger_S
      Breezy

      Roger_S Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fell asleep with the headphones on.
      @Michael Leigh

      Can't you find out what a Raymaster is? It's in the Science report article you posted.

      I tested various things. Here are my results:

      It's not the fan that spikes my T but EMR.
      Aluminum does not protect.

      What triggers spikes for me:

      phone
      computer
      tv
      satellite computer in car that I cannot turn off.

      :(
       
    10. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996

      I am definitely sensitive to "near field" computer use and that's why my PC base unit is in another room. It sounds like you have hyperacusis? If you haven't had this treated, one of the best ways is wearing white noise generators. You would have to be under the care of an Audiologist or Hearing Therapist and also to be having counselling. However, you could try a few things to help yourself. Please click on the link below and read my post.

      All the best
      Michael

      https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/hyperacusis-as-i-see-it.19174/
       
      • Like Like x 1
    11. Roger_S
      Breezy

      Roger_S Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fell asleep with the headphones on.
      My appointment with my ENT is in Octobre. No idea why they think it's necessary to wait that long.

      Hyperacusis from tv, phone, computer, alarm clock?
      Are my ears even equipped to detect such frequencies?
      It's not that they make loud noises. All I have to do is turn it on and voila, the spije increases.

      I've been afraid of sounds the first few days, but that was only because I thought my ears needed rest and thus no sound.

      There was maybe some hyperacusis. At the very least I noticed hearing loss last week but that seems to be mostly gone.
       
    12. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Roger_S

      Please click on my "started threads" and read my article: Tinnitus, A Personal View. It explains about tinnitus, causes and treatment that you might find helpful.
      I suggest that you use a sound machine at night. More about this is explained in my article.
      Michael
       
    13. Si B

      Si B Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Using computers
      Thank God its not just me. When I first developed tinnitus and hyperacusis it was at work. I'm not certain what happened but I was worse in work than when I was not. My ears got hot, achy, I felt dizzy, the ears got painful and then the tinnitus. It was scary and I didn't know what to do. 2 years on I have ninja tolerated it but only because I shortened my working week to 2 days instead of 5 with one of the days working from home. Had it not been for that I wouldn't be working now. So over the 2 years i quickly worked out it was being around a computer and the more computers about the worse it got. If i took leave in the early stages the tinnitus and hyperacusis went away but after a few months of pushing on its stuck with me for good. Now it's just a case of managing it I do a day then I try and recover for a few days and then I do my other day. It has to be computers. I sit there with earplugs in and it is virtually silent both in my workplace and at home but the same symptoms keep coming back. I am off to try the laptop in another room approach and have just ordered a 15m HDMI cable plus wireless mouse and keyboard. If this works you will have saved me my job and possibly my life. I'll keep you posted.
       
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Hi @Si B

      I wish you every success placing your computer in another room and hope you get some relief.
      All the best
      Michael
       
      • Like Like x 1
    15. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      If I use my laptop for more than 30mins my tinnitus ramps up and the next day it is very loud. You have to be completely away from the laptop or computer and use a wireless keyboard, mouse and external monitor. I use a flat screen TV.

      Best of luck
      Michael
       
      • Like Like x 1
    16. Greg Sacramento

      Greg Sacramento Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing and now somatic T dental work
      @Michael Leigh @Markku I think that computer fans cause problems.

      Speaking of computers my ratings total here just dropped from 320 to 300. This isn't the first time. It really doesn't matter to me, as I'm here for other positive reasons.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    17. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Whatever it is in computers that makes my tinnitus worse I have no idea but I keep away from them as far as possible.

      Michael
       
    18. Tinker Bell

      Tinker Bell Member

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      SSHL from virus
      All electronic devices put off EMFs. TVs, monitors, radios, microwaves, and phones.

      If the EMFs from a computer hard drive bother someone, would not other devices bother them as well? For example, people with pacemakers need to avoid microwaves and not put cell phones too close to their heart. Oddly, computers are safe to use.

      The sound from computer fans can be very annoying. I can definitely see how that could bother tinnitus.
       
    19. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      @Si B
      Depending on how far your computer base unit or Laptop will be from the room that you have your Monitor in. You may need a "Repeater cable" for your wireless mouse and keyboard to work properly. Mine are made by Logitech and both send a signal to a small USB receiver that plugs into a USB cable. This cable is routed and connects into my computer base unit in another room. Because of the distance which is over 10ft a "Repeater cable" was needed to boost the signal of the wireless mouse and keyboard to work correctly. You may not need a repeater cable so I have mentioned this. USB repeater cables are reasonably priced and just plugs into your existing USB cable that connects to your PC.

      Michael
       
    20. Si B

      Si B Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Using computers
      Thanks Michael. I have ordered a keyboard and mouse that are both supposed to have up to a 15m range.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    21. Si B

      Si B Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Using computers
      Well this didn't work at first attempt as the keyboard and mouse needed to be about 3 to 4 metres away max for them to work. Maybe the distance from me to the laptop wasn't far enough as my ears still got hot and bothered and my T and H spiked. So I'm now ordering 15m USB extension cables for my original wired mouse and keyboard to see if they respond better and if so i can move my laptop much further away.
       
    22. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Michael Leigh

      Michael Leigh Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Brighton, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      April /1996
      Best of luck @Si B You may need a repeater cable for the mouse.
       
    23. Sam Bridge

      Sam Bridge Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/gigs probably
      Interesting thread this is. I run a gaming pc so under load the fans can spin up fast and make a noteable whirring noise, it does not affect my t though.
       
    24. HCR123
      Frustrated

      HCR123 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      New Jersey
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stress/anxiety from chronic pain; triggered by Audio test
      Is this just computers? Just recently noticed a different tone that's low but seems to be affected around electronic signals or equipment. First noticed it would get louder on my right ear by my sister's coffee machine. After a night's rest it went away. Today was gone all day till now and notice it goes down a bit when I go in my room where there's less electronics. This common?
      I felt like Chuck in Better Call Saul looking around for the noise in the house lol
       
    25. David99

      David99 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      a long time
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I'm wondering about if emfs are causing my tinnitus. But would it also be the cause of fullness in my ears that go hand in hand with the T? Also, I wonder how cell phones compare to computer screens, and wearable devices, etc. I'm contemplating purchasing one of those emf detectors. Also, I've been putting my cell phone on airplane mode, especially when I have it in my pocket. I swear that I can feel the radiation when I make calls and hold it to my head (which I don't do anymore).
       
    26. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      1
      Tinnitus Since:
      1900
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to spend much time thinking about this unless you're going to invest in a good, full spectrum EMF meter, and they cost several hundred dollars or more. From messing around with one for a few days at one point, I know that computers are a significant source, but unlikely to be the most significant source of exposure in your environment.

      Note, of course, that there's scant data showing any metabolic effects from EMFs, and basically none in vivo in humans. There have been multiple studies looking at melatonin production specifically; some showed no effect, some showed some effect (but mostly a temporary one). In that case they were simulating the exposure you get if you're literally standing under a cell tower, which is going to be orders of magnitude stronger than anything a PC emits.

      To the extent that computer use is connected to tinnitus, I would suspect other mechanisms.

      Also note: any device that you use to make your computer keyboard/mouse/whatever wireless... is... a big EMF emitter, it's how they work. Really if you wanted to shield yourself you'd need to do something like use well-grounded, wired connections, and then stick the computer behind a lead-lined wall. Also, a computer display emits hella more EMFs than the rest of the computer.... so you'd want to use a projector, and again you'd need to have the projector itself away from you or shielded.

      One final thought: most people sitting at computers have bad posture, and most computers emit all kinds of ultrasonic noise (HDDs spinning, capacitors holding a charge, transformers transforming, etc). Both of those things seem like much more plausible triggers than EMFs.

      Recommended by.... the people selling RayGuard no doubt. None of the "EMF filter" devices for sale online really do anything. How is this device "proven"?
      https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/nonsense-about-the-health-effects-of-electromagnetic-radiation/

      https://www.rayguardusa.com/scientific-studies
      that's not a scientific study, it's 3 pictures and an anecdote about something that might or might not have happened, with zero citations or journal references. I've seen some dissections where devices like this have been taken apart and analyzed; they don't do anything, because there's nothing for them to do.

      Despicable people selling sham products to the misinformed or desperate.
       
      • Like Like x 1
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    27. ZZZK

      ZZZK Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2002
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure
      I want to double up on linearb's post. This tinnitus EMF correlation is IMHO nothing but a psychosomatic red herring. All the medical peer review points to this. The EMF coming off your monitor is the greatest source of EMF when using a computer because it is one of the closest devices near you using a lot of power compared to the rest of the computer. Remember EMF strength falls off with the inverse square law so just moving a small distance away makes a huge change in the field strength.

      Back in the tube monitor days the high pitch squeal of the transformer in my monitor tended to aggravate my tinnitus. But that is because the noise was close to the frequency of my tinnitus not because of any EMF issues. Now a days the highest source of EMF is going to be your cell phone while it's transmitting cellular data. Not so much because of the power output but the proximity to your body (remember the inverse square law). Now noisy hard drives and fans can be at a frequency that aggravates your T. But a modern solid state laptop or cell phone which is silent or near silent? I don't believe it. I think these reports originated from the actual noise coming off computers aggravating T not the EMF.

      The fact that some people report getting more tinnitus when they do certain things just shows the nature of the disease and how our perception of it can be influenced by our mental state. If you convince yourself that a certain activity increases your tinnitus then you will indeed experience that change even if it doesn't actually change the tinnitus (compared to things that actually can change your tinnitus level such as foods and drugs).

      Now I will add the caveat that psychosomatic symptoms are symptoms none the less and no less real to the person experiencing them. In medicine the placebo effect the brain is capable of is incredibly powerful. Sometimes it is more powerful than the actual real medicine. So if doing something like positioning your computer differently makes your T better then by all means do it.
       
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    28. Jontrast
      Caffeine

      Jontrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2017 (Late November 2017)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Extremely loud noise preceived from headphones
      we'll this thread got me paranoid
       
      • Agree Agree x 1

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