Delusional Tinnitus?!

Discussion in 'Support' started by NineNails, Apr 20, 2016.

tinnitus forum
    1. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      I talked to a T specialist and she said that T does not exist. It is a fictitious delusion of the brain when it hears nothing. So the noise we imagine hearing is actually pure silence. The absence of sound.
      She concluded that's why placebos work on T patients so potently. For instance, habituation is the most applied placebo; no matter the ailment. And it does work; as long as the patient believes in it. The power of the mindset.
      Therefore, there is absolutely no stimulus to invent a real cure for this delusional condition but more telling placebos. And should there ever be a real cure, she assured me, there's a powerful clandestine group that will do anything in their might to stop it for placebos are their big business. Sounds a little like a conspiracy theory but, just have a peek on the revenues made by placebos nowadays.
      See, we were all looking for real silence without knowing that that is what we're actually hearing all along. Isn't that hilarious?
       
    2. i.m
      Anime

      i.m Member

      Location:
      The "Lack of English" Land: Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      18/02/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      For me: Aspartame Poisoning. For Ent: L: TMJD / R: Dunno
      She is a specialist for something that does not exists. Fine, I am "worrying" ( read "habituating" ) for a non-existent sound. I am feeling better, really! *pure sarcasm*
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    3. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      I presume she meant T isn't something tangible. Thus it doesn't exist and placebos are potent for a very large number of patients. Everywhere you hear habituation. So it seems she has a valid point, which is crazy IMO.
       
    4. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      Sure she's weird, but she's not all wrong here. Medicine is an industry first and foremost, and cures don't make ongoing profits like "treatments" do.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    5. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      She sounds like a nutcase, frankly. If T doesn't exist, then neither do related hyperactivity disorders like seizures and migraines.

      What credentials does she have?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    6. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @linearb ,

      People can relate to pain for they've experienced it more than once. And seizures are visible.
      Can you prove that T exist? ;)
       
    7. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Yeah -- there have been pretty extensive fMRI studies that show how it lights up the brain... and most people experience tinnitus to some degree at some point in their life.

      Again, she sounds like a crackpot, what are her credentials.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    8. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @linearb ,

      And how conclusive are these fMRI studies and what about those with T and nothing lights up?

      And in what way can these lights up in the brain help to solve T if they are even related to T and not to something else?
       
    9. Alue

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Or pain for that matter, especially phantom limb pain.
       
    10. hello_yes
      Spaced

      hello_yes Member

      Location:
      Croatia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      everything xd
      That's pretty much nonsense because i can hear it over some other sounds. not just when everything is silent.
       
    11. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @hello_yes ,

      We all can hear T over other sounds that's because we are not completely deaf. Mine gets even louder for it's reactive.
      But T itself is actually silence. Neurons that receive no stimulus. At least, that's her theory.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    12. hello_yes
      Spaced

      hello_yes Member

      Location:
      Croatia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      everything xd
      Oh i see, i must've misunderstood the idea here :)
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    13. Telis

      Telis Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Calgary
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      T specialist haha. Okay. And you bought this enough to post about it here? Lol I hope you didn't pay to see this person.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    14. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @Telis ,

      I wanted to know if others have had similar experiences with so called specialists. And if her theory is anything but nuts. ;)

      T is a huge business. Unfortunately. It's sad. This world is based on exploitation.
       
    15. Raleigh

      Raleigh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      It's so strange
      I think she should really study a lot more into how we hear any type of sound. Indeed fMRI and MEG scans must show activities in the Auditory Cortex. If your Auditory Cortex is damaged heavily you will loose the ability of hearing this is including Tinnitus. Further, Tinnitus and all the other sounds are perceptions due to electrical activities in the Auditory Cortex.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    16. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @Raleigh ,

      So the destruction of the Auditory Cortex would stop T? If so, what are they waiting for?

      Of course, they don't want a cure. :/
       
    17. daniel1111
      Shitfaced

      daniel1111 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Amsterdam
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/12/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, repeated exposure with loud headphones.
      Sounds like it was just miscommunicated. What she may be getting at is that T is a phantom sound, not that T just doesn't exist.
       
    18. Raleigh

      Raleigh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      It's so strange
      @NineNails Have you heard cases where to get rid of Tinnitus doctors has done operations and cut the auditory nerve and then these people has ended up in deaf, they don't hear any other sound but the Tinnitus. If they had completely removed the Auditory Cortex then you can become completely deaf, this is including Tinnitus.
       
    19. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      the only imaging studies I've seen where tinnitus patients have been compared to people without tinnitus have reliably found abnormalities.
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27091485
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27080658
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26578924

      At this point, none of this "solves" anything. It is just the beginnings of doorways into better understanding tinnitus specifically and neurology in general.

      My point was just that it's not an "imaginary" condition; people with tinnitus reliably differ from matched controls in specific neurological ways.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    20. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      @linearb ,

      If these brain abnormalities solve nothing what's the point?

      I'm not a scientist here but, wouldn't they need test subjects with T to experiment?

      Last time I checked, there were no trials regarding neuronal brain activities in T patients and how to destroy or stop them. Bottom line, this is all just a theory. Nothing more. And it will be nothing more till the very day they conduct trials on T patients.

      Maybe, just maybe, these brain abnormalities have absolutely nothing to do with T but were merely circumstantial?

      I'm afraid she's right, T does not exist. Unless you have it!
       
    21. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      riiiiight.... are you reading your own thread? You started here with someone's crackpot theory that tinnitus is a "delusion". There is zero empirical evidence to support that idea. I have posted a bunch of empirical evidence to the effect that tinnitus is a real thing, and has reliable neurological correlates that can be detected through various imaging studies.

      Yes, maybe hyperactivity in the auditory cortex which appears in tinnitus patients and not in matched controls without tinnitus, has nothing to do with tinnitus... and maybe the sunburn someone gets when they strip naked in public in August has nothing to do with being exposed to the sun. In fact, maybe the "disorderly conduct" and "indecent exposure" charges that person racks up from the police due to the same insistence on stripping naked in public in August, have nothing to do with stripping naked in public in August, and are instead indicative of a vast interstellar conspiracy to undermine their credibility so that their eBay sales of obscure books are not profitable.

      However, Occam's razor would suggest otherwise, in all three cases...

      Solipsistic silliness; if we take this argument to its logical extreme, then nothing else really "exists" outside of our own mind. That might be an interesting motivation for a freshman art major who just got high for the first time, but it's not a useful starting point for scientific inquiry...
       
      • Funny Funny x 3
    22. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      You have to understand something how something works before you can attack it from a research angle; knowing that accelerants will combust under the right circumstances was fundamental to building an engine, even though the mere knowledge that oil burns doesn't help you move a car forward.

      Yes... which is why the studies I linked you all used either tinnitus patients, or tinnitus patients and matched controls. So you look at a bunch of tinnitus brains, and a bunch of brains without tinnitus, and say "wow! Look at all this weird shit!", more or less.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    23. Raleigh

      Raleigh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      It's so strange
      @NineNails All these studies are giving a false ideas to people. And one study contradicts with other studies and even perfectly healthy people can hear Tinnitus.

      https://www.inspire.com/groups/stop-sarcoidosis/discussion/tinnitus-13/

      "As Irene already said, tinnitus can be the result of medications (too much aspirin will cause it and/or deafness, for example), it could be related to the sarcoidosis, it could be something unrelated to both. Some perfectly healthy people develop it and a cause is never found."

      These researches are taking samples of people and doing study, if they find some brain abnormalities they try to come to a conclusion that it's the case for Tinnitus. And then do another study they find another different brain abnormality and conclude that as the cause of Tinnitus. But they again when they find perfectly healthy people with Tinnitus they go blind. So they don't understand a thing about Tinnitus yet.

      Have you heard this strange case of Tinnitus?

      http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=60995&st=15

      Posted 16 October 2006 - 08:28 PM

      I read through most of these posts. I have a question about tinnitus. I don't know if I have it or not, and what's been happening to me, is strange. It was last month when I first experienced this: About a week or so before my half-sister's mother died, I was lying in my bed, my head propped up on my hand, reading. Out of nowhere came this sound (seemed to be in my right ear, which is the side that I was "laying" on). I bolted up in the bed, because it sounded like someone breathing. It was weird, it sounded kind of "otherworldly", almost like a death rattle. It would start slow, and then speed up, like the gasping was getting frightened or panicky. Then, it stopped. I was thinking, HOW WEIRD, and shrugged it off. So, a bit later, I was back to my reading, when it started again, then stopped. By that point, I didn't know WHAT in the heck it was, and was starting to get a bit creeped out. During this whole time, there was NO buzzing sound whatsoever. I got up, and turned my bathroom light on (because I had decided I was just going to go to bed and try to sleep), and it was a bit freaky to me. Then it started again. I jumped out of bed, and went to get my husband who was sleeping on the sofa (always falls asleep in front of the tv). I made him come to bed, and I told him about what was going on. I laid down, and it started AGAIN! I asked if he heard it, and he said he did not. It happened once more, and after the second time (since he'd come to bed), I asked him if we could switch sides of the bed, because it seemed to be coming from "my side". We switched, and I didn't hear it anymore. The next couple of nights, I slept on the couch, not wanting to take the chance of hearing it again. Those two nights, I heard NOTHING. Then, when I went to bed the next time, I heard it again. Same drill, I made hubby switch sides, and the sound was gone.

      A couple of days later, hospice informed the family that my half-sister's mother was going to pass, and everyone needed to be there to see her. I went there, and here's where it gets odd: She was gasping. I recognized the sounds she was making. It was the same sound I'd heard in my ear. I thought maybe I was simply hearing what was going to happen (sort of a precognitive thing). That night I went to bed, and didn't hear the sound. Didn't need to change sides with hubby, etc. For a few nights I just heard silence when I went to bed. Then, it started again. I realized that I had been sleeping on my husband's pillow for the nights that I hadn't heard it. So, to experiment, I switched pillows again, and slept on his. The sound didn't happen. On the occasions that my husband has given me my pillow back, I've heard it (he even switched it without my noticing, and it happened, I would realize it, steal his pillow, and no noise). I looked up tinnitus. I never read anything about it sounding like a breathing sound, yet I really think that this is what it is. I know, I need to see my physician, but I wanted opinions. I really don't think it is anything paranormal (except maybe hearing the same sound coming from my half-sister's dying mother), but maybe I was just looking for something that resembled the sound. Are there triggers that exist for tinnitus episodes? And why would I hear the sounds only on my OWN pillow and not hubby's? I will say that I did experience the "breathing sound" out of bed twice. Both times was when I was in my kitchen cooking dinner. I decided to post this here, because I noticed that someone had bumped the topic, and after reading the posts, it's obvious that those who do have tinnitus know quite a bit more about the experience of it than I do. Have any of you ever had episodes where it sounded like a breathing sound? Are there certain things that will make your tinnitus seem more prevalent or noticeable (besides total silence)? I was thinking that the reason I heard it on my pillow and not my husband's is that they are made from different materials, but I'm no scientist, so I don't know how that would matter.
       
      • Creative Creative x 1
    24. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      I understand that but how long will it take till they actually tap into the brain and start changing something of these empirical evidence?

      @Raleigh ,
      You're probably right about these studies but the breathing story sounds fiction.
       
    25. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      It's hard to say! I was a lab rat in one recent study which I remain somewhat optimistic about. Maybe we'll have better treatments of some kind in the next 5-10-15 years, maybe we won't have better treatments in 50 years. It's easy to get pessimistic, and also easy to lead one's life doing nothing but thinking about an eventual cure that may never come -- so I think the best thing to do is to try to be as optimistic about the future as possible, but also as accepting of one's current situation as possible.
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    26. NineNails

      NineNails Member

      What did they do?
       
    27. Pb1

      Pb1 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Don't you just love it when you tell a doctor something that's going on with you and they fix you with that stare and then say well that's impossible.

      Person: Doctor I've got Tinnitus, I hear a high pitch ringing in my ears.

      Doctor: Well obviously that can't be, you must just be imagining it.

      Person: Oh yeah now that you mention it Doctor I guess I did just wake up this morning and decide I've got nothing better to do than make up a bunch of weird symptoms and come and pay you $$$ so that we can discuss my imaginary problems.

      What really annoys me is when then just completely ignore what you're telling them and instead try to bend the facts to meet a diagnosis rather than making the diagnosis based on the facts.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    28. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      Blaming the patient is the last, and confirming act of Medical impotency. I've seen it all through my career. The last line of defense if you like.
       
    29. Raleigh

      Raleigh Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      It's so strange
      @NineNails It's an actual story not a fiction. If you search the internet you will find more strange cases of Tinnitus.

      @Pb1 At least you made a good comment here.

       
    30. Marie79

      Marie79 Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2/1/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      My dr said that everyone has T and we can just amplify the sound. He did say though that people with massive brain injuries do really get T that can't be helped (like massive trauma like an accident).
       

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