Dirk De Ridder: Dreams Can Unlock Ways to Cure

Discussion in 'Research News' started by mick, Sep 28, 2013.

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    1. mick

      mick Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      http://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/274561/dreams-can-unlock-ways-cure-prof

      dirk_de_ridder__52417a1d2b.JPG

      Dreams can unlock ways of curing both phantom pain and tinnitus, the head of Dunedin's neurosurgery research unit says.
      Belgian neurosurgeon Prof Dirk De Ridder, who took up a Dunedin Hospital post in February as head of neurosurgery, gave his inaugural lecture professorial lecture - ''To dream is to cure phantoms'' - in Dunedin last night.
      Prof De Ridder, who also leads the new University of Otago academic neurosurgery research unit, the first of its kind in the country, told the audience of about 140 that the brain acted as a ''prediction machine''.
      Tinnitus, or phantom sound, and phantom pain - which is suffered by some people who have had amputations - were ''prediction errors'' caused by a lack of information.
      ''The brain cannot stand a lack information. If it doesn't have information, then it goes and looks for information and if there is not enough it will go to memory.''
      ''So when your hand is amputated or your hearing is gone ... your brain goes back to memory and pulls back the last stored [memory] and that's going to be the phantom pain ... or the phantom sound,'' Prof De Ridder said.
      In the case of tinnitus, which occurred after people lost hearing at a specific frequency, the brain re-created the lost frequency from memory.
      ''The prediction says [for example] there should be 4000 hertz in,'' he said.
      However, almost all people who suffered from phantom pain or tinnitus did not experience it in their dreams.
      If aspects of the ''dream state'' could be replicated, this could be used to help combat phantom pain and tinnitus, Prof De Ridder said.
       
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    2. carlover
      English

      carlover Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      That is so intersting I haveb some pretty strong dreams and In them I never have Tinnutis
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    3. Leah

      Leah Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chardon, Ohio USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Same for me.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    4. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      @mick Interesting article, but it took DeRidder a while to make this observation! :) If he had been following TT,
      he would've discovered that many people talk about the relationship between sleep and tinnitus. For many, sleep is that magic "reset" switch after a bad day. For others, sleep can increase tinnitus--especially if you go to sleep quiet then wake up at 3 AM with a siren in your heard. :( And for nearly everyone, getting a poor night's sleep insures the next day will be noisy!

      But I digress.... Actually, I've wondered why sleep studies with tinnitus sufferers have not been conducted. Tinnitus is associated with abnormal brain waves, especially delta waves--which are also indicative of deep sleep. There's obviously a correlation, and sleep studies might uncover them. Who knows? Perhaps, DeRidder or someone else will invent a neuromodulation cap--like the ones used for neurofeedback--that can zap our brains back to normal while we sleep! :D Or, more likely for DeRidder, invent a deep brain implant to suppress abnormal brain activity during sleep.
       
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    5. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      Jazz, I totally concur! As you point out, many T sufferers already know this. I know that if I have a bad or loud T day, it can reset during my sleep so that when I awake, it is a low T day. Or if I have a rough night and my sleep is somehow limited, my T is almost certain to be louder or worse the next day.

      For me there is a correlation between quality of sleep (the deeper, uninterrupted sleep the better) and duration of sleep (more hours, the better) and whether I will have a good or bad T day. This is usually the rule for me I would say 90% of the time.
       
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    6. christine kauhane
      Sunshine

      christine kauhane Member

      Location:
      honolulu hawaii
      Tinnitus Since:
      june 9th 2013
      sure hope that this is right , 1 week i had low T could not hear it un less i was in a very quit pace, and then today around 12oo it went kinda high???? pray that it will go down ....
       
    7. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      It`s not like this for me, I perceive tinnitus even in dreams, I had one just this night ... I`m not saying it is always like this, but than again, I don`t always remember dreams ...
       
    8. daedalus

      daedalus Member

      Location:
      Brussels
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2007
      I also did hear my tinnitus during my dreams at the beginnings. When i slept horribly bad. This is not the case anymore. My dreams are now tinnitus free.
       
    9. JTP
      No Mood

      JTP Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Finland
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shit happens
      Hmm, I don't hear tinnitus in my dreams but recently I've started to be the guy with tinnitus in them. Fortunately the dream-me does not seem to care about it too much.
       
    10. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I sleep fine and although I consider my tinnitus pretty loud it does n`t interfere with me going to sleep, I just accept it and fall asleep ... but it does appear in my dreams, on numerous occasions. And because of it`s loudness it does wake me up early ... just one of those fantastic side effects I guess ;)
       
    11. Relic Hunter
      Cynical

      Relic Hunter Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/1990
      It is early morn here. I just awoke form a very "dreamful" nite. I have never had a hint of tinnitus in my dreams.

      Dreams can determine the state of my T. A nightmare or just an emotional dream will cause my T. to be worse the following day.
       
    12. Dmitry
      Creative

      Dmitry Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Interesting...kinda following on from what Relic Hunter said:

      What I've noticed for the past week is that my dreams have been more vivid....like I remember what was going on in them and feel more emotional etc.
      Before I was conscious of my tinnitus I would sleep tight and would generally not remember what I dreamt of.
      Wonder if anyone else is the same and what part this has to play?
      Maybe its just the emotional/psychological stresses caused by the tinnitus during the day, make me more aware of my dreams at night? I don't know:s
       
    13. Smoogle
      Wishful

      Smoogle Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2011
      So my T has dropped as low as it ever has since my spike a month and a half ago today. Really strange and surprising, as just a few days ago by T had broken into a full blown whine and I spent that whole day on my pity pot. I had a really vivid and intense dream right before it happened.

      I was some kind of middle-aged gangster running away from a cop (not my first gangster dream since my spike, incidentally; and no, I have no idea why I'd be having dreams about being a gangster, haha).

      Anyways, very suddenly and unexpectedly I realized I was tired of running. It was a strange and overwhelming feeling of total surrender, and was jarring considering it didn't make sense in the context of the dream. I turned around and the cop put a gun to my head.

      "You can do whatever you want. Kill me or take me in".

      He shoved the gun against my head, and I squinted tightly, waiting for the shot.

      Then I woke up in a flash. After taking several seconds to realize I was, in fact, not dead, I realized my T was barely there.

      Don't know what to make of it, but I thought it was interesting and very surreal.
       
    14. Tenna
      Anime

      Tenna Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      Hm my t is not affected by sleep :\ I have lucid dreams making me unable of dying in them even if I got shot, and very rarely do I feel pain. When I think about it I'm not actually sure if I hear T in my dreams, I mean, we usually can't remember 1/4 of it, but think about T I do.
      "Almost all people who from phantom pain or tinnitus did not experience it in their dreams" without knowing exact numbers it doesnt seem to apply to almost all here, or that goes for thinking about it atleast, anyway very interesting and seemingly valid points on it all though!

      Smoogle, damn lucky you! :)
       
    15. Smoogle
      Wishful

      Smoogle Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2011
      Gah, I'm sorry to hear that you can perceive T in your dreams, Tenna. I have had dreams I've experienced my T in, but most of them were immediately after my onset and recent spike a month and a half ago. They've been some of my worst nightmares. Maybe given enough time you won't perceive it anymore?

      On the other hand, I am jealous of your ability to achieve lucid dreaming regularly. I've only had a handful of those in my entire life. Those are so freakin' cool, because you're practically godlike once it happens. :sneaky:

      Anyhow, I hope your dreams are more fun than mine. :LOL:
       
    16. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      I'm never aware of my tinnitus in dreams. I've never experienced lucid dreams either. :cry:
       
    17. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      Dr. De Ridder is a well known professor who focusses on Tinnitus. He previously was situated in the hospital of Antwerp, Belgium, now he moved to the University of Otago, South Africa.
      He has a new video on Youtube, its quite long and quite scientific, but some of you maybe interested.

      The thing is that I do not understand how tinnitus neuro modulation can cure jaw clenching for example. Lets say tinnitus is gone tomorrow, the jaw clenching still remains right? So if the jaw clenching gave tinnitus, it will still generate tinnitus, or not?

      To dream is to cure phantoms: Professor Dirk...
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    18. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      Best moment was at 21:52.

      As for tinnitus, well, I never really found that in the video.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    19. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      It is wonderful if De Ridder comes up with a solution, that would be great. But lets not cheer to early. At least he tries something. I'm sick and tired of hearing Dr's saying they cannot try anything, as no dr referred me to a physiotherapist, which reduced my T upto 70% (some bad days though) and still a lot of pain. Also, dr's can rely on De Ridders papers, which they won't.

      @attheedgeofscience why is this a study designed to fail?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    20. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      Because a therapeutic potential of Flupirtine in relation to tinnitus suppression is unlikely to be encountered before a daily dosage towards the higher end of the daily allowed dosage spectrum.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24681057

      And for complete remission, a longer period than three weeks of treatment would probably be required.

      I am not saying that the study was specifically designed to fail, but I am questioning why they did not divide participants into eg. 3 groups - one group doing 200 mg/day, another at 400 mg/day, and finally a group doing 600 mg/day...
       
    21. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      On drug dosage the opinions differ. My dental surgeon suggested I could try Carbamazepine for TMJ pain in a way different dosis than a Neurologist. The neurologist was much closer to the daily allowed dosis. Who is right? We don't know. I did not try it (yet)
       
    22. DutchGuy

      DutchGuy Member

      Location:
      The Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      syringing, headphones
      Same thing I was thinking since I got T, since I'm also a jaw clencher.
      Doesn't give me pain though.

      I read about him,
      and I don't like all the drugs he uses for treatment.
      Drugs = not a real treatment to me. Just a temporary solution.

      But if it's needed to relieve pain I can imagine he uses it for his patients though.

      Hahaha, oh my jaw is hurting.
       
    23. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      The thing with drugs is that nobody knows how they exactly work. See paracetamol. Very simple, only costs 0,50 cents per pack. But how it works against headaches? Nobody knows.
      That's why some patients act very good on drugs, others don't. Some patients are suited by cheap B-label drugs and some need the A-label (and thus more expensive drugs). Every body is different. It is all trial and error.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    24. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      42:50 is the best part!

      We can treat tinnitus by removing the prediction (memory of sound) by removing part of the cerebellum.
      So basically a lobotomy.:wacky:
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    25. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      No, we don't. And that is precisely why a study should make use of several different dosage regimens - hence the word "study". Like the AM101 trial; like the AUT00063 trial; like any trial or study.

      Pretty basic stuff if you ask me.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    26. hoper
      Happy

      hoper Member

      Location:
      AUSTRIA
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2014
      sounds interesting.
      i hope he is right. maybe he can devise a treatment/cure soon..
       
    27. Codaz

      Codaz Member

      I still don't get that on/off switch off my tinnitus. When I go to sleep it's there, when I wake up it's 90% quieter. It builds up during the day. Still think it's muscle tension but who knows.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    28. tomm
      Thinking

      tomm Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma (club drumming)
      From at 2008 article about Dirk.

       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    29. newfie
      Inspired

      newfie Member

      Location:
      Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma (gun)
      When I sleep my T disappears. When I wake up it is the first thing I hear if I am lying on that side of my head. It is a physical thing, I can actually feel like something is "missing"/full in my right ear. I just want to stick my finger in my ear and rip it out...
       
    30. Shadgirl
      Wishful

      Shadgirl Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2 or 3 mounths ago
      So some of us DO hear tinnitus in there dreams. But has anyone with a quieter kind been able to prevent it ever? Mine gets worce when it invades my sleep. :cry:
       
      • Agree Agree x 1

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