Exposed to Less Than 85 dB?!

Hey all, Zer0 again,

Just a short(ish) one this time: is it possible to have a permanent tinnitus increase from sounds less than 85dB?
Also: is it bad to speak loudly with earplugs in?

I just went to a restaurant where they were playing loud-ish music, according to my decibel app on my iPhone the volume was around 80db average, peaked at 86db. I had no plugs in for the first half hour since I had forgotten them, and afterwards I went to the washroom to wet some paper towels and put them in my ears for at least some protection. Seemed fine.

I did notice that my voice sounded very loud to myself with these wet paper plugs, more so than how loud I sound to myself with foam plugs. I think I was adequately protected from the outside noise, but now in hindsight I’m thinking that the perceived volume of my voice was likely over 85db in my head.

I had my last spike from a small social gathering but it went away. This seemed louder though; before I put my wet paper plugs in, there were a few instances where the combined sound of the loud music and people talking made my ears sound distorted, like when a 60’s guitar amp is pushed with a lot of volume and starts “breaking up” - when the volume is cranked and it doesn’t sound “clean.”

Is it possible that the restaurant was too loud?
Is it possible that my loud speaking + plugs was too loud?
Do you people think this could be a permanent spike or just temp?

Thank you all who read and respond. I am so grateful to have supportive people to lean on even if online, since neither family nor doctors seem to care, probably since they don’t know what it’s like living with this. I read all the responses on my other threads, but often I don’t reply because I don’t know what to say. But I do take in the replies and think about them.

Also for discussion: since I have T from noise exposure, do the “safe volume exposure levels” differ from a healthy individuals’? Workplace safety dictates that 85db is the loudest an environment can be for 8 hours of unprotected exposure, but for us who have been previously damaged by noise, are even these “safe” volume levels too much for our ears?

Thanks a bunch again.

 

This is a touchy subject on this forum, since everyone will have different guidelines. Personally, I don't think that this amount of noise can cause hearing damage. Can it cause a T spike however? Sure. I went to a class about 6 weeks ago in a room lined with speakers, but the sound levels did not exceed 80db. After 15 minutes, thinking I would be just fine, I plugged my ears, because my TTTS was acting up. I still had a T spike, that has lasted to this day. But other people, even those with T, are just fine in these conditions. They generally don't report on here of course.

The 'safe volume levels' mean just about squat if you end your day with increased T imo. I would do what you feel comfortable with and avoid the situations or use adequate hearing protection in those that do not. On the other hand, you should probably not overdo it either, since that will lead to a more sensitive auditory system (another problem I am currently facing). But I think desensitizing the auditory system is still something you can do later, whereas decreasing T is much more difficult. That is why I'm giving my ears as much rest as I can right now...

 

Some people will claim that a fly in the neighbor's house gave them a "permanent spike" (I enjoy the way people use this oxymoron in here), so it really depends who you ask. The potential damage depends on the volume of course, but also the length of exposure, and the sensitivity of your ears, so it's a complex question.

Probably due to the occlusion effect.

If this was me, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Yes, our ears have been compromised. Some people say they are ok, but there are certainly others who regret taking the risk of being exposed to those supposedly safe sounds. Many of us who began protecting our ears even from the moderate noises like that of a vacuum cleaner saw improvement. Those who didn't experience spikes following being exposed to noise will never know whether their T would have faded if they were to try to protect their ears.

You took a risk. I hope it works out for you. However, if you are fortunate enough to not get any long term consequences, I hope you won't keep trying your luck.

You might have gotten 1 dB noise reduction from that. Even earplugs provide a lot less protection than you think:
https://www.coopersafety.com/earplugs-noise-reduction
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media...how-to-use-the-noise-reduction-rating-nrr.pdf
http://www.sensear.com/blog/noise-reduction-rating-nrr-a-beginner’s-guide
https://www.earsandears.com/noise-reduction-ratings-nrr-safe-noise-levels/

Here are the stories of the people who took this risk and regretted it. This is just the tip of an iceberg. This forum is full of stories like the ones below (click on the "up arrow" to see the messages in context):

I hope you will learn from other people's mistakes.

Check out the thread below where I summarize everything (27 tips) I learned about managing tinnitus after reading the posts on this forum for the past year.
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...eone-else-who-has-tinnitus.26850/#post-307822

 

Are you talking about stuff like the underlined text below?

 

Well I guess the only option in life now is to sit in the living room, not work, stay away from every space but a park, no friends because talking is to loud, ask my family to move out because my kids are to loud, not drive a car because there could be a crash or road noise, live in a jungle because you can't mow with an electric mower....and all while not having sex because it to loud as well and a baby is to big of noise risk, and never visit a reastaurant again because ear plug don't work at all and are also to risky. So what we have here is a life sentence of anxiety and fear I guess. WTF ever...I'm so sure Bill shattner, Clinton, Reagan, Chris Martin, sat or are sitting on the sidelines of life. Oh wait....they were/are presidents, movie and rock stars. I'm sure as s$&@ they were in 85 db environments almost everyday.

 

That's not life, that's just existing. Tinnitus can change the rules a little in life, but it doesn't stop us from living. Fear mongering and nonsense can stop one, from still enjoying this amazing life. Protect your ears and enjoy your life, both are very possible.

 

@fishbone That's what I was implying...being sarcastic.

 

But finding the right balance between protecting ones ears and enjoying life is not a simple thing. I know from experience, sounds well under 85db can aggravate things and even worsen them. Whether it’s volume and/or frequency, I don’t know. I still do not use ear protection too much to avoid ear sensitivity. I just try to minimise being in loud places yet still expose to normal sounds, but it’s not working for me. I can say I can almost totally rule out anxiety from noise in most situations unless there’s a really sudden unexpected sound. I’ve taught myself to suppress my startle response and be apathetic to sound as much as possible, but it doesn’t matter.

 

I can tell you this much, I never had a simple thing or procedure. Was never taught, how to have a simple life and never had one. Yes, it's a trial and error thing(always be careful with your ears). Trying to find the right mix, that makes our lives better. It's not easy, I agree with you, but in time you can find what WORKS for you and your situation. Just gotta keep trying and you'll figure it out...

 

Gotta pick you up on that one bud. What if a tiger roars! And more to the point: what if the tiger eats you? That’s got to be bad for your ears

It is certainly the right approach you have there though. If you use the safety protocol and stay home, just be sure to turn the tv off (it can reach 60db). Don’t make any food because that will also be too loud (over 60db and possibly 70db to 80db +). Stay away from any doors; one might close on you. Don’t open any windows as the wind might be a problem; there can be some windy days that will be a risk. Don’t wash yourself as the shower is too loud and getting in and out of the bath poses the threat of spikes as well (70db +). As you rightly said, don’t have conversations as they can also reach 60db to 70db. Don’t have any kids or at least put any kids you have up for adoption, immediately, as they are very dangerous. Don’t wash your clothes as the washing machine is another hazard waiting around the corner along with your vacuum cleaner and other cleaning implements. I recommend living in filth as it will keep your ears a lot healthier and there’s no risk of any spikes.

If you do venture outside of the house be extremely careful. Literally anything can go above 60db and you’ll frequently hear sounds above 70db. Stay well away from a job because you’ll likely need a car and that’s not really recommended. Public transport is also a huge no no, that can be louder than a car. I recommend walking everywhere from now on. This may build up a nice sweat, so you better get used to stinking because as stated earlier, the washing machine is too loud to be used safely. Don’t be so sure that the parks are safe. You will find that there’s dog walkers (dogs are another threat) and there’s also the possibility of lots of children. If your destination involves walking near any roads then you better cancel your trip as it’s just too risky.

Finally, and this is very important, don’t socialise ever again. Socialising is just far too dangerous. There’s conversation, the possibility of a bar or two, and maybe even a trip to the cinema! There’s a very real risk that you may have fun, and for the love of god, don’t do that! Fun is dangerous.

To close my statement, I’d like to add that earplugs are useless at protecting you against all of these hazards, and I have access to many threads and posts to prove this beyond doubt. Good luck!

 

Isn’t that what @Bill Bauer is saying, only in a more cautious way? Who is to say what is right or wrong? Erring on the side of caution is better than living with regret.
Lots of contradictory advice flying around.

I should probably wear ear protection more often, because things aren’t “fading with time” like some people say they will, even though I stay away from the ‘approved’ list of loud places to avoid without ear protection. Maybe I should follow @Ed209’s post

 

It’s the winning formula Gman and comes highly recommended

 

I had to double check twice that this was a satire post by you and not an actual post by Bill. You nailed much of his views after . . . and before . . . tinnitus. Honestly, that is why I cannot give much credence to his views. Even before tinnitus, Bill lived a life avoiding much of what people enjoy based on faulty risk analysis.

That’s the annoying part of anxiety, you do not realize that it is controlling your behavior when you’re in the thick of it.

 

And to be clear, I wish Bill no ill will. I just cannot fathom how others can be expected to follow his advice without having a nervous breakdown.

 

What @Ed209 said.

Live your life. Protect your ears when everyone else should be doing it.

It isn't that hard, really.

Best,
Zug

 

Absolutely agree.

Given the relationship between the limbic system and tinnitus, a nervous breakdown and living in a heightened state of anxiety is not the solution for decreasing tinnitus. It’s more likely to do the oppposite.

 

True, but only if it makes people feel anxious doing that.

But also having T and other relatedness things worsen over time definitely can also heighten anxiety, which in turn can make it worse and quite possibly lead to a nervous breakdown and worse in some cases. It’s a vicious circle.

Doing what works for oneself to feel calm should be up to the individual. If that is protecting more than other people, then so be it.

 

This thread is Gold

 

This is what I want to know. So far, I haven't found a definitive answer.