Fred Von Stieff — Brain in Balance / Benzos, GABA Information

Discussion in 'Research News' started by nills, Aug 26, 2015.

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    1. nills
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      nills Member Benefactor

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      I found this video and this guy has a youtube channel ... amazing insights on all various topics going from GABA to BENZO to glutamate to opiate withdrawls ... I thought it would be good under treatment section because it backs up a lot of the topics discussed here ... I say sticky it!

      Fred Von Stieff - Brain In Balance

      GABA Neurotransmitters and Glutamate


      GABA Neurotransmitters, Anxiety, and the...
       
    2. nills
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      nills Member Benefactor

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    3. nills
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      nills Member Benefactor

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      my GOD this stuff is interesting ... I have learned more in the last half hour than the last year fantasising about tinnitus drugs ... i`m gluten sensitive btw ...

      Gluten Sensitivity: Why Gluten and Glutamate...
       
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    4. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      This is great work @nills thanks.

      Such a shame as well because I love broccoli, it's a great source of vitamin C and it doesn't have the sugar content like in juices that competes for absorption.

      I might try fasting for a week to see if there's something in my diet that's causing any problems.

      Thanks again for posting these, I am utterly persuaded by your views on benzos now, thanks.
       
    5. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Ok doing more research I am a little bit confused.

      Here from Livestrong:

      GABA-Producing Foods
      Foods rich in glutamate and glutamic acid produce glutamine, which in turn provides the raw material your body needs to synthesize GABA. Eric R. Braverman, M.D., author of “The Edge Effect,” says that several foods that contain high levels of complex carbohydrates are good candidates for boosting your body’s supply of glutamine. Almonds, which contain 10.3 grams of glutamic acid or glutamate per 6 to 8 ounces, top the list of GABA-stimulating foods. Other foods in this category -- and their glutamate/glutamic acid content per 6 to 8 ounces -- include whole wheat, whole grain, 8.6 grams; halibut, 7.9 grams; oats, whole grain, 7.5 grams; beef liver, 6.5 grams; walnuts, 5.4 grams; rice bran, 3.4 grams; lentils, 2.8 grams; brown rice, 0.94 grams; potato, 0.83 grams; broccoli, 0.74 grams; spinach, 0.68 grams; bananas, 0.22 grams; and oranges, 0.21 grams.

      Note Broccoli is listed along with rice.

      Here from tinnitusformula.com (not sure how reliable it is?):

      Although they sound similar, glutamine and glutamate are very different substances. Glutamine is an amino acid that is necessary to sustain life. It has many healthy benefits and is known as brain fuel because it easily crosses the blood-brain barrier and supplies nutrients to the brain. It [glutamine] also helps maintain a healthy level of GABA in the brain. GABA is an inhibitory brain neurotransmitter and promotes a calm demeanor.

      Glutamate is also a brain neurotransmitter. It is necessary for brain health in its own right. However, it is an excitatory neurotransmitter and if present in too high an amount promotes excess electrical activity in the brain. This excess activity increases the likelihood of neurological problems including tinnitus. The delicate hair cells of the inner ear when damaged by loud noise will often produce an excess of glutamate as a result. Pharmaceutical-grade Ginkgo biloba extract (found in Arches Tinnitus Formula™) has been shown to mitigate glutamate’s effects or in scientific terms is a glutamate antagonist.

      then here from benzobuddies.org, High glutamate foods

      Foods rich in glutamate and aspartate:

      1) Grains: Wheat, barley, and oats are highest. Corn and rice are lower than the previous three but higher than potatoes.
      2) Dairy Products: All Cheeses (cheddar, Swiss, Monterey Jack, Mozzarella, PARMESAN) are very high. Casein is very concentrated in cheese and is 20% glutamic acid by composition.
      3) Beans: Soy, Pinto, lima, black, navy, and lentils
      4) Seeds: Sunflower, pumpkin, etc.
      5) Peanuts: Very high, as are cashews, pistachios, and almonds. I have more detailed charts on the site to show exact values for the various nuts. Everything in moderation applies when eating nuts of any kind. So, I do not recommend you reach for nuts when you are really hungry unless you can stop after a few. Nuts are very good for you..in moderation. For example, seven almonds a day gives you what you need .
      6) Diet drinks: Primary source of aspartate (aspartame/NutraSweet)
      7) Prepared foods, soups: 70% of prepared foods and many soups have MSG
      cool.gif Meats: Note: All meats are naturally rich in glutamate and aspartate. Lamb (and eggs) are the lowest, while rabbit and turkey are the highest.

      Food low in glutamate and asparate:
      1) Fruits
      2) Vegetables
      3) Potatoes
      4) Lamb and eggs are relatively low.
      5) Tree nuts (e.g. pecans, walnuts). NOTE: These are relatively low when compared to peanuts and cashews. I have more detailed charts on the site to show exact values. Pecans, for example, have half the amount of glutamate that peanuts have but that is still quite a bit. Again, everything in moderation applies when eating nuts of any kind. I do not recommend you reach for nuts when you are really hungry unless you can stop after a few. Nuts are very good for you..in moderation. 7 almonds a day gives you what you need.

      So it sounds like it's very hard to eliminate glutamate altogether from the diet and in fact in your last video the lady says "free glutamate" but that can also be glutamic acid. The issue is whether or not Glutamate can be used to produce Glutamine which in turn can synthesise in to GABA. I'm a bit confused here. By the looks of these lists I would be left with water, fruit and vegetables... but not broccoli o_O
       
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    6. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Ok the confusion is in this use of language of "Glutamate" that's in the title of the video and "Free Glutamate" that she mentions.

      I just found more foods which contain Glutamate including Fish and Tomatoes:
      http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/fish-high-in-glutamic-acid.php
      http://www.foodcomp.dk/v7/fcdb_details.asp?FoodId=0306

      As one commenter in the thread points out:

      Sherri K. 1 year ago
      You forget to mention one very important point. Dietary glutamate does not cross the blood brain barrier. So dietary glutamate cannot cause overexcitation in the brain from glutamate.
      scottytohotty77 8 months ago
      Except where the intestinal and blood/brain barriers are compromised.

      So perhaps here is the answer?
       
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    7. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      I do not understand, glutamate is connected to food with gluten. We all know that glutamate is the key reason for overactive brain neurons that produce noise (t).

      So conclusion, not to eat foot that contains gluten???
       
    8. erik
      Breezy

      erik Manager Staff Benefactor

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      This is interesting stuff.

      I don't know anyone nor have I ever read about anyone (legit) who successfully got rid of their T through dietary restrictions. Reducing T is far far more complex than just taking some Gingko and not eating a handful of cashews. That is why finding a solution is so difficult. Glutamate from common foods even MSG does not pass the blood brain barrier and does not affect brain activity. Some people may have some sensitivity to certain foods but that is different.

      Early in my T, I went gluten free for while. My T remained the same.
       
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    9. markoana

      markoana Member

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      2.2013
      Well it is very doubtful what is affecting t and what doesnt. Some food, coffein, nicotin, can increase t in some ppl.
      It is from person to person, probably because of that what cause t. I do no think about curing t, but increase/decrease of t level in many persons can be done by taking some food etc...

      Specially if someone is untolerable to gluten (as Novak Djokovic was until age of 24) he had so many problems because of gluten. After one dr discovered that he become no1 and still is...
       
    10. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Yeah I agree @erik but even something to take the edge off would be nice. And of course it was @Danny Boy (again!) who recommended Pu-Erh Tea. So I went out, got some. Spent the whole afternoon drinking the stuff. I love it! It's like the magnesium, just very relaxing and another natural alternative to drugs.

      I think since a lot of T is exacerbated by anxiety I think it's good to know what will help reduce it or make it worse.

      I also tried some L-Glutamine as well, that didn't make my T worse even though that is meant to pass the blood brain barrier and be turned in to the dreaded Glutamate.

      Neurotransmitter Pathways Glutamate
       
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    11. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Glutamine is not the same as Gluten, I got confused about this too...

      Glutamine vs Gluten What’s The Difference?
      Glutamine is a popular amino acid and because glutamine sounds like gluten, some athletes and health conscious individuals who are gluten-sensitive wonder if they can use glutamine supplements.

      Glutamine is one of the amino acids that make up the gluten protein but glutamine is not the same thing as gluten. One big difference is that we make glutamine. The human body does not make gluten. As such glutamine supplements are unlikely to produce the same symptoms as eating foods that contain gluten.

      I want to make the distinction between the amino acid L glutamine and glutamine peptides. In theory glutamine peptides (small glutamine proteins) may elicit celiac symptoms if you are gluten sensitive, if the peptides are derived from wheat or other gluten containing foods. The amino acid, L glutamine, however, should not have the same effect. This is good to remember if you use a protein supplement that contains glutamine.
       
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    12. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Oh okay now I get it, Glutamine produces both Glutamate and GABA

      Glutamine-induced alterations in the content of brain amino acid neurotransmitters in rats with different alcohol motivation

      But still I feel like I am going around in circles. I found this guy over on bluelight.org who sounds like he really knows his stuff because he was studying this at the time:

      I have just read a paper that said that oral L-glutamine increased plasma GABA levels in rats without significantly raising plasma glutamate levels. This is quite interesting considering the mechanism for transforming glutamine to GABA goes through a glutamate intermediate. Therefore, L-glutamine might be your best bet. Bear in mind that this study was done in rats, and rat brains don't always equal our brains. If they did, we would have many more effective drugs, and research would be a lot easier. Therefore, oral L-glutamine may increase glutamate levels in humans, which would do the exact opposite of what you wanted. However, it may also increase GABA at the same time. It all depends on the kinetics of the reactions.

      The paper he mentions: Oral L-glutamine increases GABA levels in striatal tissue and extracellular fluid


      Well this afternoon I took 500mg with L-Glutamine with plenty of Pu Erh Tea and I felt great. I didn't notice my T as much and I was able to go out for a run and my H wasn't too much of an issue.
       
    13. ruben ruiz

      ruben ruiz Member

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      Im sorry you too 500mg of what with L-Glutamine?
       
    14. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Whoops, I meant I took 500mg of L-Glutamine with the tea. I did it to see what would happen. I got very mellow.
       
    15. markoana

      markoana Member

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      2.2013
      Yes, but I was talking about gluten, not glutamine...There is nowhwere glutamine in my post :)
       
    16. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      Ah you're right, all these Glutens are so confusing. Yeah apparently free glutamate is a problem as mentioned in the video earlier but not for Gluten intolerance. Glutamate is made from Glutamine in the body which is a part of the protein Gluten. So they are all related but have different effects.

      Glutamate cannot cross blood brain barrier so having it in your diet is unlikely to make your T worse.

      More info here but on MSG (again slightly different but with some similarities) http://www.glutenfreedietitian.com/monosodium-glutamate/
       
    17. markoana

      markoana Member

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    18. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      To address this question specifically I think it would be worth a try, Gluten Free diets are very well documented and most supermarkets cater very well for it. My hypothesis though is that it won't make a difference based on the evidence I have read.
       
    19. markoana

      markoana Member

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      2.2013
      Well for sure there will be no difference if your body does not have problems with gluten food. But if it has, gluten free food will make your condition overall better, if u feel better your t is gonna be more torelable for sure.

      Those conclusions about "not crossing blood brain barrier", are important for cure, but for some kind of relief is not. There are so many treatments that do not cross blood brain barrier, but people feels better, and that is most important while there is no final cure, still...
       
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    20. amandine

      amandine Member

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      july 2014
      can anyone explain ALL of the above............utterly confusing. What is the conclusion of all this above in simple terms please. Lovely videos especially the one by @ChrisJ in which I understood nothing at all!
      Do we eat normal stuff or not? What are we supposed to get out of this thread - more confusion leads to more anxiety so if someone understand this then please explain it simply for the rest of us who dont understand this thread. Thanks...........
       
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    21. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      I understand your frustration, I felt it too while trawling through research papers, forums and videos.

      The TL;DR is that eating foods with Glutamate, GABA or Gluten is unlikely to affect your T because they do not cross the blood brain barrier.

      However L-Glutamine, L-Theanine and substances found in Pu-erh Tea do in fact cross the blood brain barrier and have been shown to increase GABA levels in the brain and therefore calm down the some of the hyperactivity.

      I tried it myself by taking 500mg of L-Glutamine and drinking 4 cups of Pu-erh Tea and I found it very relaxing. I have done it two days in a row.

      I hope that helps and I am sorry for the confusion. We are all learning here as we go.
       
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    22. amandine

      amandine Member

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      Can you tell me where to get this from please - I am in Europe. And what is L-glutamine please? thanks
       
    23. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      I got the Tea from a local health food shop called Holland and Barrett and it also looks like it's available on Amazon. If you have any chinese medicine shops maybe they will do it too.

      L-glutamine is a supplement used by athletes to help them recover from their workouts. And again you would find this in a health food shop, amazon and maybe at somewhere like My Protein.

      Let us know how you get on.
       
    24. amandine

      amandine Member

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      july 2014
      Ok I have done a search on amazon.co.uk (i am in france) for pu-err tea and l=glutamine and there is so much choice I would not know which one to go for or if they send to france. Also I have looked on holland and barrett for pu-err tea and is doesnt recognise the search.
      Please can you help me out here? Can you tell me which to buy and also could you have a look on amazon.fr (france) to identify the item there please (if you do it through google chrome it does an auto translation but fairly easy to do in french as you just need to type in the item as in any amazon). So confused as to know which to buy. Thanks a lot - please can you help me
      By the way holland and barrett recognise l-glutamine but then there is again so much choice so I would not know which one to buy...
       
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    25. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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    26. amandine

      amandine Member

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      july 2014
      Dont have any as live in the mid of nowhere countryside here......very boring and very quiet.......want to come back to the UK.....but am suffering badly with this so need help in any way I can and to keep calm too as incredibly anxious all the time.
      Will try your suggestions and thank you. Why is it sold as a dietary aid? How does it work to lose weight? I saw that too that it is sold as a weight loss aid. Thank you for all your help.
       
    27. Christian78
      Alone

      Christian78 Member

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      i did not know someone had benefit from this i used it. problem is only few% of it comes to nervous system, most is broken in body before and that is know fact. but sellr will never admit fake in product and they are correct it does come to muscules but not brain.

      cross of 3%
       
    28. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

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      You're talking about the L-Glutamine? Only 3% crosses the blood brain barrier? Do you know about others like Theanine?
       
    29. nills
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      nills Member Benefactor

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      I`m utterly confused now :) one post mention how glutamine transforms into GABA and another says how it turns into Glutamate ...

      I do read in between the lines that glucose turns into glutamate ... ofcourse we need glucose for our brain .. but too much glucose might produce too much glutamate ... ? ... what is glucose? it is sugar ... fructose glucose sucrose ... all sugar... interesting film `That sugar movie`
       
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    30. amandine

      amandine Member

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      july 2014
      I agree with you - I am utterly confused too...and also thought that foodstuffs dont cross the blood brain barrier by more than 3 or 4 percent?
       

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