How Loud Is Average Tinnitus?

Discussion in 'Support' started by threefirefour, Feb 8, 2018.

    1. threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      I heard from the ST study that the average sufferer has 20dB loud tinnitus. What does that mean? What's the minimum masking level for that and how is MML calculated?
       
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    2. Dana
      Busy

      Dana Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bucharest, Romania
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I have higher than 20 db tinnitus level, i went to a number audiograms amd i know how 20 db sound, but i can mask it sometimes with low volume sounds, because the sound level of the tinnitus does not have to cover the tinnitus level, but to shift the attention of brain, and that can be obtained with a sound that is lower than the tinnitus.
      On bad days T cannot be asked by anything. Or could be only by sounds so loud that they would make my reactive T react.
       
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    3. Alue
      No Mood

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      I'd be curious to see if that is minimum masking level or tinnitus matching level (dBSL). Do you have a link to the study?
       
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    4. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Good question. I saw it in a thread and I don't have a study. But since 20dB is extremely quiet and people are bugged by tinnitus, I assume this is the tinnitus itself and MML is higher.
       
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    5. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Sorry it took a while for your comment to leak through. How loud is your tinnitus in dBSL?
       
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    6. Dana
      Busy

      Dana Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bucharest, Romania
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      @threefirefour

      I have multiple frequencies, changing volume and "location" all the time, and that is why my tinnitus is not measurable.
      If my tinnitus was stable....it would have been much better.

      BTW, i do not think that your stable T comes from TMJ and bad back. You were fine and suddenly you got bad back and TMJ, and T from those? At the age of 20? If you had an accident, i would have believed possible, but with no accident, what aging process are you talking about? I think that you got T from loud noise exposure (music) that you did not even realise that it was too loud for your ears. Loud concerts, for example, take place all the time. Some people return from those concerts home with T, some remain unharmed. We are not the same, we do not have same ears.

      Constant frequency T sounds like hearing loss on that frequency.
       
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    7. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Maybe not my back but my TMJ definitely plays a big role. I can reduce my tinnitus by moving my jaw to the left, I can reduce it by massaging my TMJ, and I was professionally diagnosed with TMD. It's genetic.

      Also, I got a professional hearing test above 8khz. I have no significant hearing loss dips up to 19khz, which is extremely impressive for my age. I fully believe you can have tinnitus without any causes, so it wouldn't matter if I had perfect hearing anyways.
       
    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Oh and I don't have constant frequency tinnitus. It's a hissing that varies between ears and frequecy. I do get tonal fleeting tinnitus and sometimes it lasts for a day or two, but I can completely get rid of it by moving my neck, or my Jaw.
       
    9. Dana
      Busy

      Dana Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Bucharest, Romania
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      @threefirefour
      Wow, congratulations for your impressive hearing, but there is not such thing as "tinnitus without any causes", that's nonsense. T withot known cause, yes, many cases, but without a cause, impossible. T is the effect of something, of a cause.

      You may hear the sound of a blood vessel, that is pressed or not, depending on jaw position.
      If i push my jaw forward, i start hearing another frequency, a very loud sound, tht stops either by retracting the jaw, or by pressing with a finger a spot behind my ear, or, lately, (this something very recent), if i wait for about 7-8 seconds (i count). Maybe i have contracted sternocleidomastoid and, after 10 years, it starts to decontract (but i had jaw injury, serious one).

      In your case, it sounds more like a bad neck and TMJ, than a bad back and TMJ. There are treatment for those.

      If you do not have T from acoustic trauma , you have better chances to heal in a shorter period of time.
       
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    10. jay777

      jay777 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      benzo/ headphones
      hi i thought T could not be measured in db? How loud is mine? above any sound i hear it in the past 3 months tv motorway traffic shower running a bath. I do not want to turn the hifi up to 130db to test, but i think it would find a way to creep higher
       
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    11. crd3

      crd3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music / allergies
      I think the closest thing we have to measuring T in dB is minimum masking level; in actuality, T is not a real sound that is not caused by actual vibration (usually), and therefore technically cannot be measured in db.

      My minimum masking level was determined by an audiologist to be 28 dB (for my low hum which is most bothersome; I did not measure my high pitch tone because it doesn’t bother me as much). The audiologist classified this as “mild”. I’m not sure at what point it becomes considered moderate or severe. I don’t think there’s a hard rule. But in my case, this audiologist both has and specializes in T, so her opinion of mild vs moderate vs severe is probably pretty accurate.
       
    12. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Just coming back to this thread after a while. According to the study, they used dBSL to measure the tinnitus.
       
    13. dpdx
      Disappointed

      dpdx Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Murica
      Tinnitus Since:
      Onset:09/23/2017 Worsened: 1/17/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma, worsened by caloric test/VEMP test 90db nhL
      25db
       
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    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Where did you get this number?
       
    15. dpdx
      Disappointed

      dpdx Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Murica
      Tinnitus Since:
      Onset:09/23/2017 Worsened: 1/17/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma, worsened by caloric test/VEMP test 90db nhL
      audiologist masked my T there
       
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    16. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      I see. So did they say you were exactly average? Someone else here said their tinnitus was 30dB and their audiologist said it was average.
       
    17. dpdx
      Disappointed

      dpdx Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Murica
      Tinnitus Since:
      Onset:09/23/2017 Worsened: 1/17/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma, worsened by caloric test/VEMP test 90db nhL
      well it depends what sound it is, if you have a high pitched dentist drill in comparison to buzzing then its different
       
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    18. Alue
      No Mood

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      dBSL just means decibels above sensory level.
      I think minimum masking level is going to typically be much higher than tinnitus matching level (done in a sound booth and adjusting for sensory level). I've had my tinnitus matched a number of times and it was consistently 30 dBSL, but I can hear my tinnitus just about everywhere. I'm sure the minimum masking level would be much higher.
       
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    19. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      I see. Thanks for the correction. They used matching then.
       
    20. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      @threefirefour, there’s no accurate way to measure a perception. As Alue has pointed out, the best we’ve probably got is DbSL.

      First your frequency is matched (if your T is tonal) and then a sound at the same frequency is played until you think they are about the same intensity. The Db level is noted and then compared to your audiogram at the same pitch. Your true DbSL result is your loudness score minus your threshold at that pitch.

      For example: you match your T to 8khz, and feel like the intensity matches at around 30db. Your audiogram shows that your threshold for 8khz is 25db meaning the sensory level of your T is 5db.

      I’m pretty sure that most people fall between 5-10 DbSL. In fact, I think it’s something like 70% of all cases are 6 DbSL or less. Anything above 10 DbSL would be pretty catastrophic.
       
      Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
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    21. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      The problem is when we are all comparing our level of T with each other by comparing to outside noises which is fundamentally flawed. I’ve seen people saying things like ‘my T is about 90db because I can still hear it above sounds at that level’. But, this is a terrible way to compare. The sound is in our head and it’s our perception of it. We can increase our perception by just focusing in on our T. I always find my T rages, even more, when I do an audiogram for example, because I’m listening so intently.
       
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    22. David077
      Creative

      David077 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      stress, benzo/clonozepam + clonidine, maybe infection
      When I tested by an audiologist, he told me that >11db is above the threshold and can not be masked by an inear masking aid. But <=11db is so low noise that you can live with that without trouble.
       
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    23. RishRamsey
      Doubtful

      RishRamsey Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stupid DJ
      Is that 20db at a sensory level? Or just the level of tinnitus?
       
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    24. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      Minimum matching level. That means if we put an average tinnitus sufferer in a silent room, and played a sound that sounded like their tinnitus, it would be the same volume at 20dB.
       
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    25. AfroSnowman
      Balanced

      AfroSnowman Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      April 16 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, viral?
      I find that a violet noise at around 65 Db is a pretty close match to what I am hearing. Self measured though. I play the noise on computer, keep raising it until it is around the same volume I hear and then take a Db reading. I feel pretty bad when it is like that, borderline catastrophic.

      To be fair that is only when I am having a bad day, I sometimes have softer days but why bother measuring then? ;)
       
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    26. RishRamsey
      Doubtful

      RishRamsey Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stupid DJ
      And how loud is yours? Where can you and can't hear it? My audiologist tested mine and 35db at 4khz and said my hearing at level starts at 35db, hence at a sensory level, it is 15db SL. How would you classify mine? Moderate or severe?
       
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    27. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      My tinnitus used to be about 20dB. Idk what it was sensory but I could match it’s volume with a 20dB tone in a soundproof room.

      yours sounds moderate can you hear it outside?
       
    28. RishRamsey
      Doubtful

      RishRamsey Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stupid DJ
      Oh I meant my hearing at that level startes at 20db, hence 15db SL
       
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    29. RishRamsey
      Doubtful

      RishRamsey Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Stupid DJ
      How do you generate a 20db sound? I want to test it on my own but don't have the means, and definitely not the mood/ money to go to the audiologist.
      When it's still outside with a not a lot of noises, then yes. Can you?
       
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    30. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      threefirefour
      Peeping tom

      threefirefour Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      5/15/16
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      140dB B R U H moment
      I used my computer. I was in a very quiet sound chamber at college used for recording music (~11dB), and I used a video on YouTube with it on volume 1. I adjusted lower by using the volume on the YouTube video I was watching.
       
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