Jastreboff versus Wilden

Discussion in 'Support' started by Katarina, May 30, 2015.

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    1. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      Hello there.

      I am struggling and have been for a long time now. It has come to the point where I am becoming a female version of Howard Hughes ... presenting all sorts of eccentricities in my attempt to avoid sounds, which make my ears and nerves protest.

      I am now moving to a deserted island - a last resort decision after a series of unsuccessful attempts to get back in shape.

      I suspect that this is not a real solution to my problems. I can't live on a deserted island, by myself, for years to come. I am only 39!

      This is why I am still looking for alternative solutions - treatments - which i could try to fix my ears and enjoy "normal" life and normal sounds like I used to.

      I've been primarily considering treatments and theories offered by two people, by Mr. Pawel Jastreboff (the inventor of TRT therapy) and by Mr Wilden (the laser therapy proponent).

      What i am confused about and would love to hear your opinions in regard of are their OPPOSING recommendations.
      In a nutshell, Mr. Jastreboff says "silence is your worst enemy" whilst Wilden says "you need silence to help your ears heal".

      Isn't this confusing?

      My instinct says: "you need nature and nature sounds, not the city humbug that bombards your ears and nervous system with the sounds of sirens, screaming children, roaring Harley Davidsons , Porsches and Vespas" .. My instinct says: "you need to get rid of people, jobs and situations that irritate and stress you"... My instinct says "Follow your innermost wishes and desires, fuck the rest"

      But all of this is kind of in conflict with the TRT and KBT theories of exposing oneself to sounds, which are "normal" by "normal" peoples' standards and which, they say, strengthen both one's tolerance to sounds and help to exercise control over the emotional reaction we have to sounds .. therefore, teaching the nervous system to calm down over time ..

      Anyone out there who can enlighten me?

      Or is this, like many other things in life, a big unknown which scientists can speculate about but in the end, patients have to find their own answers to?
       
    2. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      Can I join you? We can start a T colony.
       
    3. attheedgeofscience
      Uninvolved

      attheedgeofscience Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Childhood
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Head Injury
      Question: Did Dr. Wilden ever say that? Anywhere? I don't believe he does. What he does say is to protect your ears and avoid noise.

      The reason he - Dr. Wilden - says that, is because of the energy principles of the biology of cells (and the healing thereof) and a topic I have covered in some detail on this site.

      For someone with mild tinnitus, I would say that staying busy is the best option. And really: keeping a job and managing daily life is indeed something which can be just that: managed.

      For severe tinnitus, it is a whole other game.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    4. Carm

      Carm Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/01/2011
      evolution is slow, we the people aren't built for this loud environment we now have
       
    5. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      My problems are both tinnitus and hyperacusis. I am category 4 patient in TRT ie. the most difficult to treat since exposure to normal environmental sounds makes my tinnitus and sensitivity worse.

      I've read Dr. Wilden's paper on TRT, in which he is very critical of the therapy .. I was sorry to read it, since I had laid my hopes on TRT. But Wilden's words do seem to ring true ..

      I honestly do not know whom to believe ... my life experience has taught me that often, one's own instinct is the best counsel, better than anyone else's.

      Still, what I am about to do is extreme. I am not a recluse by nature. I love people. I used to be a social butterfly. I am also an exhibitionist by nature: I love displaying and sharing myself. My thoughts, emotions, even my looks :). And here I am, about to "pack it all in", and move to a deserted island, where all I will achieve, I fear, is to wither away ... in solitude and boredom.

      Seems such a waste of a human potential, and I am not being boastful here. I think that we all have a potential and by doing what i am about to do, I am wasting mine. I'd love to have a choice. T and H seem to limit mine.
       
    6. dboy
      Jaded

      dboy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2007 & 8/2013
      I'm no expert, but I'd say your instincts sound like good ones, speaking in general terms.

      More specifically, you say you are moving to the island as though that is a decision made. Is it just that you are having doubts? Is it a done deal financially? If so then give it a try for a while... see at as a healing journey/retreat, but not as for all time. You might find the quiet and isolation disturbing, or you might find that it helps your t to settle and your mind to habituate. I really don't think however that you will find the quietness aggravates you tinnitus if there are nature sounds around you. Also, real wave noise/running water seem to be the best masking sounds for my t (I can still hear it if I focus, but my awareness of it is generally disrupted by the liveliness of the sounds if that makes sense). If that also works for you and your dwelling is close to these sounds then that might be wonderful.

      For what it is worth, I live in a fairly quiet, peaceful little village and currently live a life such that I am not exposed to much noise. I would not say I am completely habituated, but I don't have anxiety about t and I think the peacefulness helps with that. When I am exposed to periods of noise - a lengthy train or car journey for example - my t is aggravated but soon seems to calm down to baseline again if I get some quiet time.

      Good luck anyway, whatever you decide. Be interested to read more about your experiences if you go for the island.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    7. dboy
      Jaded

      dboy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2007 & 8/2013
      There is nothing to say you cannot use your time on the island productively. You could write or develop any creative/artistic interests you have. Take up some kind of craft. It is an opportunity for self discovery and development, and need not be for ever.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      Thank you, dboy. I appreciate hearing of your own experience. I live in the country's capital .. and the noise drives me nuts. I've always dreamt of being a "small village girl" and have actually tried becoming one on several occasions. But it is not easy. It's not easy to fit in like a local, because I'll never be a local. I will always be the foreigner from the city ...

      Also, all my friends and family are in cities.

      I have to reinvent myself. And accept the new me. Not easy!

      Like you say, I should just probably give it a go and think of it as an experiment, rather than a life sentence. I'll set up a blog and start writing about it :).
       
      • Like Like x 2
    9. dboy
      Jaded

      dboy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2007 & 8/2013
      Absolutely. I lived in cities/big towns all my life until three years ago. Village communities do have drawbacks, as you say. And it takes time to adjust.

      I'll read your blog... make sure to post the link. :)
       
    10. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      I will, I promise. Ok. Back to packing almost 40 years of my life into boxes ... uffa.

      Dboy ..does your decision to move out of the cities have to do with your T? And if so, did it help?
       
    11. dboy
      Jaded

      dboy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2007 & 8/2013
      No, not at all to the first question. My wife and I just wanted to escape and bring our little boy up somewhere better for his soul (and ours). I actually had quite mild t when we moved, but then a series of circumstances conspired to make it get much worse. It's a long story and not much fun.

      P.S. I do think being out of the city is better for it though. After it got made worse I spent three weeks in a larger town - still not really a city - getting HBO therapy and I think with hindsight the extra noise and disruption probably did more harm than if I had stayed at home. But sometimes you just gotta try something.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    12. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      I also have very bad Hyperacusis that makes my t worse any noise and it jumps the gun.

      Any really loud noise and boom permanent increase. Is very hard to live even in my house let alone outside..also my neighborhood has been the reason of the last couple of permanent spikes it sucks and cant do anything about it..
       
    13. japongus

      japongus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Well I've got T and H from acoustic shock over a decade ago. Scrambling with limited financial means to find a house is ridiculously hard. My aim has always been to have a baseline where I can actually sleep 8 hours and then have silence because I can't think if I'm surrounded by sound.

      My pain is a lot greater when the sound changes its energy than with the sound itself, and this applies to all sound. So I would find a deserted island full of sound. In moving to the country, birds become the changing sound, instead of the horrifying sound of cars. That doesn't mean I've become more sensitized like the TRT people say, it just means that all along I couldn't stand any sound. Also, because the H is so brutal and because the T is more or less constant, T doesn't bother me an ounce of what the H does.

      I'm very weary of both the LLLT and TRT as there are gaping holes of arrogant logic in both, more in the TRT than in the LLLT I think. I've written about them both a few days ago here, including opening a thread on TRT.

      By the way, nature on its own is terrible. I had various phases of economic terror while I've had H. 15 years of H. First 8 dragging my sorry ass all over the place trying to adapt myself to sounds. 2 years of awesome video gaming and watching movies in my parent's basement. Back to economic hardship (hypocritic drunk savage family denied I had H after 10 yrs LOL!) chucked out of basement. Now I have (temporary) economic relief and will take a deep breath and try to combine sleep, silence and maybe LLLT, and if that doesn't work, the drug trials or even the TRT, but hopefully on a backdrop of being in a place of silence, reducing life expenses to the maximum (learning about solar power, growing your own lettuces etc) so that if I get worse I have something to fall back on.

      My instinct too is silence, and I suspect the habituation success thing from TRT is probably just darwinism. Also, nature is very boring, bird sounds are as horrifying as talking people in the city if you have H, and they're probably a boring ass drag if you don't have H too. I look to keep myself occupied, playing games on the internet, or reading pirated books in silence at night, in the long run unsustainable economically but work for now. There's no harmony in the music of nature or the sounds of the city, but there is in the information on the internet.

      In order for me to read about LLLT, for far better concentration I need night time silence with a soft constant sound like a desktop pc (not a shitty laptop's hard drive for instance), and for that I need to sleep during the day. I can't wear ear plugs to block exterior sound, because then I would have my blinking (yes, my blinking eyes!) and heart beat in the head making sounds that make concentration unsustainable too. In the long term ofc, this is economically unsustainable but that's just part of the bullshit ironic predicament of H.
       
    14. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      I'd love to hear your story, actually. I like stories, especially those that concern issues that are big in my life too :).

      I totally approve your decision to give your boy a better childhood in the country .. I spent all of my summers and summer weekends in the countryside too, in a ruin of a castle in Southern Bohemia, and I cannot thank my parents enough for the idyllic childhood that I now cherish in my memories.

      I too tried HBOT - also without success.

      This is why i am kind of reticent to try any other treatment... at least for the moment. I've tried medications, I've tried letting time pass, I've tried HBOT, and now, all I want, is to live a life, which is OUTSIDE of doctor's surgeries and OUTSIDE of a busy city, and focus more on the things that I love (nature, writing, taking photos, beauty, walking, great food, animals), rather than on the things that bother me (sounds of traffic, screaming babies, building sites, sirens, car alarms, tinnitus, etc) ...

      I will report how that goes. I am still not growing long nails or staying indoors like Howard Hughes, so perhaps there is hope :).
       
      • Like Like x 1
    15. dboy
      Jaded

      dboy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2007 & 8/2013
      That is very kind of you... Maybe I will do a post in the 'Introduce Yourself' section one day. I keep thinking about it after being on the forum a couple of years or so.
      It sounds wonderful. I hope your experiences on the island bring some of that back.
      It sounds to me as though your move might be therapy for more than your tinnitus and hyperacusis. There are some great things going on in cities, especially when you are younger. Our interests and desires often change as we grow and a setting that suited us once can become more of an ordeal. If it turns out that being alone on your island is not your thing then do not despair. You followed your heart and you found out for sure... which is more than many people do. :)
       
    16. Uhh I second that. PLEASE?!;)

      Anyways, I hardly think a deserted island is quiet. .wind, ocean, waves, birds..It would probably be healing.

      If I had the money I would choose neither and live on an island..but not just because of my H and T lol
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    17. Please do set up a blog, it would be a fantastic read. And if it's any consolation, I am trying to move out to the woods..that is what my instincts are telling me. I am also Cat 4 T and H.
       
    18. bwspot

      bwspot Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/13/2014
      Deserted island!!! That sounds like fun and awesome experience. Where is the place you are going to? Is there a food there? I hope you are not planning to be a hunter and live like stone age person? That would be though.
      I personalny share Your thoughts about trt and lllt. So hard to make anything out of them. I dont like the idea of tricking the mind to get used to something especially if there is a hearing loss. Then you got lllt that looks so great on paper but does it work? I don't know yet.
       
    19. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      Into the woods? How does that work? Renting a cabin?
       
    20. Katarina
      Scared

      Katarina Member

      Location:
      Italy
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      yes, quite. :)

      I guess struggling with T&H is the excuse I needed to follow my heart's calling :).

      I can see the positive side of T&H already :)! People leaving pigeon holes and herds to become free agents again ...
       
      • Like Like x 2
    21. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Well, I think everybody knows what I'm gonna say, but you know what; I'm not saying it...We all know what it is.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    22. A winterized cottage or a house. There are many around here that come up for rent.
       

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