Lenire — Bimodal Neuromodulation Treatment by Neuromod Devices

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. Joeymeatballs
      Curious

      Joeymeatballs Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Exposure
      The good thing about Lenire/Neuromod is at least we've actually seen data and research backing up their claims whereas other companies just slap some bullshit number on their website with no evidence.
       
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    2. Snake
      Scared

      Snake Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Long term playing computer games on headphones.
      That's why I still follow their work and bimodal stimulation as a whole. We never had this amount of money, people and actual science involved. Right now we have even 3 different teams working on it, Neuromod will be the first to hit the market but the competition is real.

      It's gonna be either the biggest disappointment in the history of tinnitus sufferers or the first big thing that actually works and IF it works then I think that it could start some kind of the "new era" where there is a lot more money and people involved in tinnitus research because the investors will see the results already on the market and they will start to believe that the investment will earn them some money. Of course patients' results will vary, Neuromod / Lenire is like a version 1.0, it will not work for every case but nothing in medicine works for every case. We will probably see better protocols and different approaches when it comes to bimodal stimulation, but nothing before this worked in terms of the actual reducing tinnitus volume and changing its behaviour. We only had CBT, habituation and shady alternative medicine scam, no real science aimed at tinnitus so it didn't attract the investors and the medical community.

      Maybe it's the start, maybe it's another dead end. We'll see when they hit the market and I'm sure that a lot of people here will report on a daily basis how they feel and how their tinnitus behaves.

      I'm trying not to hype myself, I have had this for 8 years now and i saw (and unfortunately experienced) A LOT of fails. Only fails, 8 years of fails fails fails. Fails, frustration and disappointment. It's hard for me to believe that it can change, but bimodal stimulation seems to be our best bet for now and I really hope to be proven wrong because I'm 21 and I'd like to experience life as a young adult. If it will at least reduce the volume by x % then it's going to be big, big because I will experience reduction for the first time in my tinnitus life (so for a guy whose tinnitus is getting worse as the time passes on it's going to be a miracle) and it can start the development of better protocols, better timings, different approaches and even more new research and treatments. It's my only chance to experience normal life. It should be the best time in life when you're healthy and full of energy. We need something that will shake the market and the medical community, then our situation as patients have a chance to change rapidly. I hope that's it, I don't believe that's it. It's strange and hard to describe.

      It's really strange feeling when you realistically don't believe based on your previous experience but have hope at the same time that it's finally some turning point that will change our situation :eek:o_O because even if it doesn't work for anyone but for some, something that reduces tinnitus and really change its behaviour will shake the market and the community (patient and medical) and that's what we desperately need.

      And well, I don't really believe in testimonials. I need to see reports from people I know are genuine (and they already stated that they will get the device).
       
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    3. Watasha
      No Mood

      Watasha Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      They're actually only claiming 2/3 clinically significant improvement which I think gives them some added credibility. The proof will be in the pudding, so let's keep pushing for research and see what happens with this.
       
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    4. Allan1967

      Allan1967 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1997
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      They are inundated with customers. Don't ask me how I know.
       
    5. kelpiemsp
      Swamped

      kelpiemsp Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      United States
      Tinnitus Since:
      birth/ recent spike 2/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Born with ETD, several acoustic traumas, most recently ETD
      Yeah but they didn’t have peer reviewed results. That’s a big difference.
       
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    6. jmasterj
      No Mood

      jmasterj Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic?
      But the question is how many of those have actually done clinical studies to support their success rate?
       
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    7. Shelly75

      Shelly75 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      20/07/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      There haven’t been robust clinical trials for most of these. I’ve done TRT and the evidence is mostly anecdotal. They say 80% of people habituate to their tinnitus with TRT within 2 years of when you start it. That’s the same rate as natural habituation. These results with Neuromod are within 6 weeks. That’s massively significant.
       
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    8. KMc24

      KMc24 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      I can understand why you would be doubtful of the testimonials. I'm sure they're selecting only their satisfied customers, but to me they seemed rather sincere. I'm 44 and I've had tinnitus for about 13 months. It cycles between mild, moderate, and severe days. The severe days are 2 or 3 days out of the week, and it's like I'm a completely different person. I don't even feel human. I feel for ya man at 21 years old. I feel like tinnitus is robbing me of my last few young years as I'm still in good shape, but tinnitus is slowly sapping me because I struggle with sleep, and anxiety now. Never had issues before.

      I can't help but think we are on the precipice of a breakthrough. I guess that having tinnitus today is much better than years ago. I'm just trying to stay hopeful that something will at least turn those severe days of mine into mild because there is such a difference with tinnitus when it comes to loudness. Anyone who says any different is just fooling themselves and others. Habituation for me is virtually impossible because it is ever changing. I just want to sleep and feel like a normal human being again.
       
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    9. JohnAdams
      Starving

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      here
      Tinnitus Since:
      it started.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      Correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't think they are even using tinnitus loudness as a metric, but rather the Tinnitus Handicap Index.

      CBT is designed to help you overcome the negative emotions associated with tinnitus, what if this is just the same thing? After 12 weeks of zapping yourself, you FEEL better about it because you're doing actively doing something?

      Trust me, I want this to work, I just have doubts like everyone else. I also think there is a much better way to go about this, like regeneration of hair cells and ribbon synapses. Both of these things are possible now.
       
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    10. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      It's already been stated in this thread that Lenire is only as effective as CBT but gives you the result of improvement quicker.
       
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    11. Shelly75

      Shelly75 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      20/07/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Things progress, things change, everything is a learning curve. I was a kid in the 80s when AIDS was going to wipe out humanity. There was no cure on the horizon and every house got sent an information letter about how to protect yourself from it! Last week, very quietly and hardly covered, it was in the news that they have developed medication that now prevents HIV being passed from one person to another. In a nutshell this is pretty much THE “cure”. You can live with HIV now into old age. It’s not the life sentence it was.

      In comparison with tinnitus I believe this device might not be the final “cure” but it’s the start. Some people will get a better quality of life from using this. And for those that don’t, this is the start of further research. This is a turning point that hasn’t been reached before. The final cure has to begin somewhere. If you are suffering with tinnitus today I really believe it’s not going to be the life sentence it was was 40, 25 or even 5 years ago, research has now found its way “in”.
       
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    12. Shelly75

      Shelly75 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      20/07/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      They have also got a 10 dB reduction in volume that is clinically significant. I don’t think hearing regeneration is the one-stop-fix-it-all. My dad is deaf as a post, he can’t hear a thing without hearing aids. He doesn’t have a hint of tinnitus. I have mild hearing loss and my tinnitus is raging. Hearing loss doesn’t explain it all.
       
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    13. Autumnly
      Wishful

      Autumnly Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      July/August 2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      @annV Do you know if it's also going to come out in Germany in June? :D
       
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    14. JohnAdams
      Starving

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      here
      Tinnitus Since:
      it started.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      But some of their testimonies stated that they experienced a reduction in noise.
       
    15. Autumnly
      Wishful

      Autumnly Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      July/August 2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      They also measured MML (Minimum Masking Level). Ross O'Neill said about MML in the interview: "And then MML (Minimum Masking Level). But a lot of people report difficulties with measuring MML; it's difficult if you've got two types of tinnitus which they then try and mask, the laterality of it. It's difficult if one form starts to come down [and the other doesn’t] then what do you measure? It's challenging."
       
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    16. Snake
      Scared

      Snake Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Long term playing computer games on headphones.
      CBT didn't reduce the volume at all, habituation doesn't happen in 6 weeks neither so I don't think that we have CBT-like effects here. I think that THI is just a bad measurement that doesn't reflect the loudness reduction on the paper but was chosen because it's widely accepted in medical community and it's probably easier to get peer review on the clinical trials results write-up than using measurements that are not accepted in the medical community as a standard.
       
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    17. KotaDomowa
      Dreaming

      KotaDomowa Member

      Location:
      Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      Februar 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      A disaster.

      A few days ago I wrote to Neuromod asking for information about MML. But now my e-mail address has "broken" and I haven't been able to log into it for three days.

      Perhaps this question can be asked by someone else?
       
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    18. Shelly75

      Shelly75 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      20/07/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      They did use THI, TFI and MML too though. The TFI results would be really interesting to see
       
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    19. Snake
      Scared

      Snake Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Long term playing computer games on headphones.
      And they are also widely accepted I think.

      I don't know if there are any other measurements that are accepted by the medical community, maybe someone can say if there are also other measurement methods they could use in the trial without problems later during the peer review (so without creating some non-standard measurements that other researchers don't use in their trials).
       
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    20. Watasha
      No Mood

      Watasha Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I could see some possible truth in this. There was a time my perceived loudness decreased drastically, but my THI scores did not go down nearly as much as you would think. I think there is still the emotional component at play that says I experienced this, it's still there and I don't feel great about it. Even if perceived loudness went down to zero, I think I would score something on the THI in fear of it coming back, fear of noisy places, etc.
       
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    21. spedgas
      Depressed

      spedgas Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I absolutely do not believe this is a habituation device. For the sake of argument let's say CBT and Lenire lower my THI by the exact same amount. I can get relief by using my mind and hope it alleviates my bad feelings and perception of tinnitus or I can use a device that may actually lower the volume of my tinnitus. Even if the results of both methods get me to the exact same place I'd rather take the treatment that gives me the possibility of actual lower volume. The improvement can be in my mind or physically happen. In an ideal world I think you could use both and maybe get cumulative improvement.

      I'm eager for this to get released so the rampant negative speculation can stop. Knowing how this thread works though I think the negative tone will continue even if this product is a success.
       
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    22. JohnAdams
      Starving

      JohnAdams Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      here
      Tinnitus Since:
      it started.
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      hearing loss
      Plus the THI is a completely subjective questionnaire. Your score could change day to day based on how you feel that day.
       
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    23. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      One of the guys on a Facebook support page and who was also one of the people who did a testimonial for Neuromod elaborated a bit more about what it did for him.

      I’m posting here for the benefit of anyone who hasn’t seen this.

      Original post was this:

      800CBBB7-4AF6-4538-8F20-C6AE0D02C9F6.jpeg

      upload_2019-5-11_0-53-21.png
       
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    24. Heinrich_S7
      Relaxed

      Heinrich_S7 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Uncertain
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise exposure
      17 dB is huge. Freaking huge... IMHO that would put mine below threshold of hearing.
       
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    25. GSC
      Volatile

      GSC Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma.
      THAT'S AMAZING.
       
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    26. GlennS

      GlennS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Regeneration is possible the same way fusion power is possible... theoretically. Until it comes of age people will pursue the best possible options out there, however imperfect.
       
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    27. Hayls32

      Hayls32 Member

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      1997
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Pulsatle to begin with. Noise exposure later in life
      This is awesome, thanks for sharing.
       
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    28. lcho

      lcho Member

      Location:
      United Kingdom
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma and prescription-drug induced
      I’ve seen repeated mentions on this thread since the slides were posted that this treatment isn’t more effective in reducing THI scores than CBT. I’m all for critically analysing the results, but this is incorrect - I would like to clear this up so people aren’t misinformed.

      CBT reduces THI scores by an average of 13 points by 12 months. Lenire, in all 3 arms of the TENT-A1 study, reduced average THI scores by at least 13.7 points, by 12 months, and also around those reductions at 12 weeks. Already this is more than CBT, and in a much quicker time.

      In addition to this, and more importantly, was the finding that those with hyperacusis achieved a reduction in THI scores of 26.8 points - a much larger reduction than any observed using CBT.

      Finally, their finding in TENT-A2 that changing the stimulation settings in the second 6-week period drove THI reductions to near 20 points by 12 weeks, again is superior to reductions through CBT.
       
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    29. Mentos

      Mentos Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cracow, Poland
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced, loud rock concert
      The most important is reduction of MML which Neuromod reports. I don't think sufferers care that much about THI/TFI scores.
       
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    30. lcho

      lcho Member

      Location:
      United Kingdom
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma and prescription-drug induced
      I think it depends on the sufferer too, but yes in general we’re all more interested in MML or TLM.

      The point of that post, however, was to address the repeated misinterpretation of Neuromod’s results regarding THI reductions vs CBT in this thread - it wasn’t to say that THI is the most important measurement.
       
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