MBTSR.....some thoughts please.

Discussion in 'Support' started by Beth, Mar 25, 2014.

tinnitus forum
    1. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :)Hi, can we get a thread started on mindfulness based tinnitus stress reduction please? I'm very interested in finding out more about it. I know Dr Gans will have lots to say about it and I can't wait to hear what she has to say but has anyone out there tried it? I am using a mixture of mindfulness and CBT to help with tinnitus and have read a few books on mindfulness, CBT and ACT. (Acceptance and commitment therapy.) They all have very good ideas for dealing with anxiety and stress etc but I have not been able to find a book that is specifiacally for tinnitus and one of the above therapies. Has a book been written? Looking forward to hearing about the experience of these therapies when linked with tinnitus. X
       
    2. here2help

      here2help Member

      Good evening, Beth.

      There are some good books written about the application of cognitive behavioral therapy to tinnitus management, but I am unaware of any books so far on the application of mindfulness based cognitive therapy (MBCT) to tinnitus or the application of mindfulness based stress reduction (MBSR) to tinnitus.

      I hope that fact will stop no one from exploring mindfulness as a viable option for managing tinnitus-related distress. The notion of standing to the side of our own thinking and learning to observe our thoughts as they occur without necessarily buying into them, as well as our feelings, body sensations, and impulses to act can be a very healthy and positive step for tinnitus sufferers to practice.

      here2help
       
    3. Lisa88

      Lisa88 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Hi @here2help
      If there are any CBT books with CDs that you recommend, would you let us know?
      Thank you so much. No worries if you can't think of any offhand. I'll keep browsing the internet. Thanks for all your wonderful help on this forum.
       
    4. Dr. Gans

      Dr. Gans Member Clinician

      Location:
      San Francisco. CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2014
      Hi Beth, I am only now seeing that you had posted a message to me. Sorry it didn't come up in alerts but glad I caught it. And yes, as far as finding out about mindfulness as a management tool for tinnitus there may not be a lot but I am very impressed with what is out there. Doing a google search of 'Tinnitus' 'Mindfulness' 'Online Course' might bring you to what is out there on programs to guide you through the skills needed to help you integrate a mindfulness practice into your life with tinnitus so that you can do (the hard but important) work to heal yourself. At his point there are a few studies that have specifically been conducted looking at the effects of Mindfulness Based therapy for tinnitus but this research base is growing. There are no books, per se, but there are book chapters and articles in well respected journals (which can be found through ATA) that can get you started. Again, as far as audio recordings and online guides to courses on Mindfulness Based Tinnitus Stress Reduction (MBTSR) that you can participate in, you can find them by doing a google search using words like 'Tinnitus' 'Mindfulness' 'Online Course'.
       
    5. Dr. Gans

      Dr. Gans Member Clinician

      Location:
      San Francisco. CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2014
      Better yet, perhaps do a search of 'Tinnitus' 'Mindfulness' and 'MBTSR'
       
    6. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :thankyousign:Dr Gans, thank you for your post. I will do some online searching to find the information out there. I have a couple of books on mindfulness and I've found such books as, 'Breaking the habit of being yourself' by Dr Joe Dispenza and, 'Get out of your mind and into your life' by Steven C Hayes very useful reading. I've always believed that if I cannot change the tinnitus that my attitude to it must be changed but I seem to do OK for a while and then all the 'what if I'm one of those who never habituates' type thoughts come along. Even if I don't actually verbalize those thougts in my mind, I'm aware that that is my state of mind anyway so doesn't need to be put into words. Does that make sense?! I may not think the words that I've had it for years and it is not getting any better but I am aware of that situation as fact. It's a bit like if I see a beautiful sunset, I know it's a beautiful sunset and react in a nice emotional way to it but I never have to say 'It's a beautiful sunset' to have those feelings and I feel the same about tinnius. I can avoid thinking negatively but the facts are still there and if I follow the thoughts so that I'm facing my emotions then I still feel bad. I hope I'm not a lost cause because I do get pretty desperate at times and blame myself for failing to habituate when it seems to be what most people can do naturally.
       
    7. Steve H
      Creative

      Steve H Director Staff Benefactor Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Location:
      York, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2003
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Flu, Noise-induced, Jaw trauma
      Hi Beth,

      I was just in the docs (lovely ear infection, just what somebody with T wants) and I saw something about a free meditation course. It's an Aussie not for profit http://smilingmind.com.au

      Not tinnitus specific but might be a good place to start. There's also some apps around £1.50 that are rated quite well, again not tinnitus specific but a good starting point to see if it works for you. Although you obviously already have researched quite a bit.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 2
    8. LadyDi
      Busy

      LadyDi Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Florida, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barotrauma/airplane
      Since many of you seem interested in Dr. Gans and her work, here is a video of her describing MBTSR (including a brief demonstration) to clinicians at a San Francisco VA Medical Center last year.

       
    9. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Hi Beth,

      I went through a MBCT program for tinnitus in the UK. A lot of the program was based on this book.
      The Mindful Way through Depression (Book & CD)

      Another good book is:
      Mindfulness: An Eight-Week Plan for Finding Peace in a Frantic World (Book & links to Audio downloads)

      One more would be:
      Mindfulness for Health: A practical guide to relieving pain, reducing stress and restoring wellbeing (Book & CD)

      Also check out any books/CD's/Downloads by:
      Vidyamala Burch
      Danny Penman
      Mark Williams
      John Kabat Zinn



      Adam
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    10. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :thankyousign:
      Hi Adam, Thank you for the information. Did you find the course helpful? What stage are you at now with your tinnitus? You've obviously had it for quite some time so it's kind of you to help others. I hope you're at the stage where it doesn't bother you any more.....that's where I long to be. X
       
    11. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      @Beth

      Dr. Gans is a leading researcher in the mindfulness field, and I'm sure her program is excellent. That said,
      achieving a mindful or meditative state requires practice and commitment. Not everyone will be successful in achieving a mindful state, and some people may not like the therapy after trying it.

      Though mindfulness may be effective for you, I recommend you first try less expensive versions, like those recommended by various posters. This may be all you need. Please know too that several types of meditation are efficacious in reducing tinnitus stress. Some forms of hypnosis, conducted by qualified practitioners, are likewise effective for certain people. Other psychological therapies you might consider include cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) or tinnitus retraining program (TRT). Both are equally effective in managing tinnitus. And each is discussed on TT.

      The mind is powerful and able to heal. But not every therapy will work for everyone.

      Here are some more mindful links:

      This is to free audio files you may download to your computer. It is conducted by UCLA: http://marc.ucla.edu/body.cfm?id=22

      Here is a podcast to meditation and mindfulness by Baylor Counseling: https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/meditation-mindfulness-baylor/id572991148?mt=10

      Here is a podcast on mindfulness in a medical context, but it also includes self-help sections: https://itunes.apple.com/us/itunes-u/mindfulness-in-medicine/id430427770?mt=10
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    12. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      Jazz, thank you so much. I will check it all out. I have been meditating for some time and read every book I can find about the power of the mind. Eckhart Tolle, Dr Wayne Dyer, John Kabat-Zinn to name but a few. I find it a very interesting subject. Just wish I could turn my mind off sometimes; if I could stop thinking, my life would be so much better.............. :rolleyes:
       
    13. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      Undoubtedly, thinking too much predisposes people to tinnitus. I am likewise guilty of thinking too much--before I got tinnitus and obviously afterwords.

      But the mind is truly capable of healing; you just need to channel it in the right direction. Then keep it on course because it is easy to let tinnitus rule our lives. But don't let it. Set the tinnitus free!

      Here's a book I found on Amazon recently that you might also enjoy:

      http://www.amazon.com/dp/1572244879/?tag=tinntalk-20

      Good luck and keep trying! You will succeed; everyone does. It just takes time. You have many friends here.:huganimation: That's why this board is such a great resource, and Tinnitus Network will take this support to the next level.

      jazz
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    14. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Hi Beth,

      Yes I did find the course helpful. I participated in it a few years ago. It was a MBCT (Mindfulness Based Cognitive Therapy) course specifically designed for people with tinnitus. There were about 12 people in the course. It was held once a week or a couple of hours for 8 weeks. Homework was practising the mindful exercises 7 days a week for between 20 - 40 minutes. It was based on the book and CD The Mindful Way through Depression. The main results I took away from the course was a massive decrease in tinnitus related anxiety. Once I lost the anxiety dealing with the tinnitus was so much easier. I still practice mindfulness today.

      I didn't get to a position where it didn't bother me. Though I am more or less there now. I still have a few isues with spikes but on the whole I am probably 90% habituated. When I'm at the 90% state I really couldn't give a damn about my tinnitus, in fact I think its incredibly boring and I'm really not interested in it. At the moment I'm in the 10% space due to a massive spike due to some very loud celebrations even though I was wearing plugs. Interestingly if this had happenned a year or so ago I would probably have been in a seriosly bad way. So even dealing with spikes have improved massively. The difference has been TRT.

      As Jazz wrote there are many ways of dealing with tinnitus. It may be useful to have a look at the options such as CBT, MBCT, TRT etc and see if any resonate with you.

      For CBT there is a marvellous book called Tinnitus: A Self-Management Guide for the Ringing in Your Ears by DJ Henry and Peter H. Wilson Its hard to get hold of but sometimes you can get a second hand copy from Amazon at a reasonably decent price. Its a book full of CBT exercises specifically for people with tinnitus. The important thing with this book is to do the exercises. If you don't do the exercises its really not worth buying the book.

      For MBCT. You have seen my recommendations above. Though I have found another one by Mark Williams - This is his latest.
      The Mindful Way Workbook: An 8-Week Program to Free Yourself from Depression and Emotional Distress (Book & MP3's)
      If you choose this route I think the trick is to choose a book/CD and make a commitment and stick with it for the full 8 weeks and then see how you are doing. Changes with tinnitus can be very subtle. You may not notice the changes to your reaction on a day to day basis, but you may notice that you are reacting differently to how you used to react a couple of months ago.

      TRT. I really don't think you can get results from TRT through a book. You would really need to find a very good TRT therapist.

      So, you have a number of choices. As this is your mindfulness thread maybe that would be a good place to start. Above there are also some really good links from Steve H and Jazz.

      If I can be of any help please shout - not too loudly though I've got dodgy ears ;)

      Adam
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    15. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :thankyousign:Jazz and Adam, A big, big thank you to you both. I'm going through a bad patch at the moment so it's great that kind people like you are here to help. I know I've improved (in my reaction to it) over the years I've had it because I was an emotional wreck when I first got it and it wasn't even there all the time. Now I hear it every moment unless really engrossed in something and then I still keep picking it up but most of the time I can carry on and not react.
      My fear is that it is there all the time and has got progressivly louder and will therefore continue to do so which is why I know I need change my attitude to it.

      I have thought of TRT which is expensive, but probably worth every penny but I am put off by the though of wearing WNGs for up to a couple of years. Nobody apart from my husband, daughter and a very close friend know that I've got tinnitus and I would find it really diffficult if people started to ask me about it.......I just want to forget about it and get on with life and feel the WNGs would draw attention to it all the time. I'm seeing a good tinnitus therapist at the moment, based up in Sheffield (Tim Husband, he has a website with info on tinnitus worth reading) and he thinks WNGs are to be avoided if possible and that having a calm disciplined response to the sound is the best way. I will be doing CBT and mindfulness aspects with him.

      Thank you bot for your help and advice, I really appreiate it.
       
    16. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      Tim Husband is wonderful. Steve knows him quite well. Say him hi from us.

      Some of the white noise generators are quite discreet:
      wsg-right-ear.jpg

      http://busstop.typepad.com/blog/2009/05/white-noise-generator.html
       
    17. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Marcus & Beth - Some WNG's are much more discreet than that. Imagine a small behind the ear hearing aid and a very thin transparent tube then goes in to your ear. Nobody would see it.

      So Beth, if you do ever decide to go the TRT route don't let the thought of people noticing your WNG's come into the equation. They are virtually invisible unless you shave your head.

      CBT and mindfulness seems a great place to start. Good luck.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    18. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :thankyousign: Thank you SteveH, everyone iso helpful, much appreciated. X
       
    19. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :)@Adam, Everyone in the know (such as you, Dr Nagler and a few others) think very highly of TRT. What is the magic ingredient that is lacking in other therapies? I feel that Tim Husband is excellent and we had about 1 1/2 hours of councelling for the first session then I went for a second session with lots of questions that had never been answered by anyone else so felt very reassured. I had a week of 'honeymoon' time which apparently is to be expected, where I felt I would definitely habituate over time and life was feeling good again but then my thinking mind sneeked in and started to remind me I hadn't done it in all this time so I probably never would etc, etc. I am seeing Tim next week so hope to be back on track, though today I am doing OK, I just keep reminding myself that if I don't have a negative thought then I won't have a negative reaction and I won't feel bad. It's hard work when my mind is so used to worying all the time but I'm giving it my best shot!!

      So, is there anything in TRT that is different apart from the wearing of WNGs? Strangly, I don't feel any better at all when I use them because the tinnitus is still audible (obviously, when used correctly) and I still hear it and sort of ignore the white noise. Today I have been busy with friends all morning and managed not to be aware of it for a couple of hours so feel that using WNGs would have kept my awareness on it. I may have to go for TRT but at the moment I am finding Tim very good and cannot afford the London prices plus train fare there, though if I felt it was necessary I'd sell something to be able to pay for it. Watch out husband!!
       
    20. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Beth - The reason I think highly of TRT is because its the therapy that has moved me onthe furthest. It may well have been, if I had done TRT first and then MBCT then I would be saying the same thing about MBCT. So I definitely don't favour one over the other. I believe my nearly complete habituation is down to a mix of CBT, MBCT & TRT. I really don't think there is a magic ingredient in TRT. As long as you have a knowledgeable therapist in 1) the therapy you are doing and 2) tinnitus, then I don't see why any of the therapies plus ones I haven't mentioned should'nt be suitable.

      In Mindfulness you dont need to worry about that, because you learn to have the negative thought and choose your reaction to it. A lot easier than not having negative thoughts.

      In TRT there is the counselling that for me has turned theory into experience. The theory of habituation made sense to me in an intellectual way but not an experiential way. I finally "got it" with TRT.

      Regarding the WNG's they are not always used. They are also not meant to mask the tinnitus. They are primarily used for sound enrichment. I think the idea is that if you can't hear the tinnitus how on earth can you get used to it. How can you habituate. TRT is different to masking.

      In my case I started with WNG's but within a week of using them I stopped TRT due to a death in the family. We both agreed that this wasn't the right time to start using the WNG's. When I restarted we decided that as I can be a bit OCD (with how loud/soft they should be) and after another hearing test that hearing aids may be a better way of sound enrichment. She was so right, I took to them like a duck to water.

      If you ever decided to do TRT in London. In my opinion there is only one person to see and that is Jaqui Sheldrake. The good news is that you would only have to come up once for tests and fittings if needed. The counselling and follow ups could be done on the phone or skype.

      However, in fact a big HOWEVER, I don't see why you would need to do TRT. Reading your post I think you may have found your way out of tinnitus suffering with Tim Husband. TRT is alway there if you want it.

      I think its worth mentioning that all these therapies take time. Improvement can be two steps forward - one step back. Sometimes vice versa. So if you are happy with your therapy and therapist its worth giving it time.

      As far as I can tell there is no magic ingredient with TRT, its one of a few valid therapies that help get us from A to B.
      If I gave the impression that TRT is better than any of the other therapies then i apologize because I didn't mean to and its certainly not true. The reason I like it, is the same reason I like MBCT it has helped me so much get from Suffering to Peace (most of the time).

      Adam
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    21. Beth
      Inspired

      Beth Member Benefactor

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      quite a while...
      :)Adam thank you once again for a very informative post. I will stick with Tim Husband but know that TRT is always there if I need it. Dr Nagler recommended Jaqui Sheldrake but I have been recommended Larry McKenna by a couple of others who think his approach is better for people with high anxiety linked to tinnitus and I've also been told (I apologize if I'm wrong on this) that he prefers WNGs not to be used. I'll see how I do with Tim; he's certainly been excellent so far and I'd highly recommend him as a tinnitus therapist.

      Your comment on negative thoughts was very good so I'll take that on board. The two steps forward and one back is well known to me but as long as overall progress is made in the long term, and I can live with tinnitus without the constant fear that seems to accompany me, I will be happy.

      My very best wishes to you, Beth.
       
    22. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      @Beth It looks like Adam got you on the right path.:) Of course, you'll have some bad days. We all do. But over time the good days will outnumber the bad ones. And, after a while, I'm sure you'll be helping out others who've just gotten tinnitus and are very afraid.

      Keep in touch! :cat:


      jazz
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    23. jazz
      No Mood

      jazz Member Benefactor

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      8/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      eardrum rupture from virus; barotrauma from ETD
      I forgot to add. I do wear those discrete behind-the-ear hearing aids with the white noise feature. Sometimes, I find the noise bothersome. That's usually when my tinnitus is low. But when it's louder, I will activate the noise feature because it does serve to distract me.

      Just a thought.:)
       
    24. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Small world!

      Laurence and Jacqui share the same office. (I've always caused him Laurence since we first met 10 years or so ago, and can't get my head round Larry. Though Jacqui does call him Larry :))

      Laurence McKenna was/is my CBT therapist and he also lead the Mindfulness group I was in.
      Quite frankly what these two don't know about tinnitus isn't worth knowing.

      They have both played a major part in getting me through this.

      You are absolutely correct in thinking that Laurence is the man for tinnitus related high anxiety. Even Jacqui says that I should see Laurence for that. Regarding WNG's he's certainly not against it. Whatever is necessary and what works for you is how they both operate.

      So more good news you have another therapist in your tinnitus armoury if you should ever want it.
      You wouldn't go wrong with either - it all depends on your needs.

      Adam
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    25. George Brady
      Crappy

      George Brady Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1985
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      bad meds
      The 8weeek mbtrs online course seem to be pricey! $800 plus DOLLARS!! ¹
       
    26. Dr. Nagler

      Dr. Nagler Member

      Location:
      Atlanta, Georgia USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/1994
      @Markku, you have shown a photo of the GHI Tranquil Custom ITE. It is still available, but the GHI Tranquil Simplicity II OTE is much more discreet and has far superior technology.

      It should be noted that this device as well as the one you showed in your post are used in TRT and not in MBTSR.

      Stephen Nagler

      Disclaimer: I used to work for the company that manufactures these two devices. I receive no financial gain nor do I benefit in any way from showing photos or discussing them.
       

Share This Page

Loading...
If you have ringing ears then you've come to the right place. We are a friendly tinnitus support board, dedicated to helping you discuss and understand what tinnitus treatments may work for you.