Thoughts About Suicidal Members and General Negativity

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by GlennS, Jan 26, 2020.

    1. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      I know there are other threads on this but I wanted to share some personal thoughts on this matter. I'm doing this 1) in response to what happened with Allan1967 and 2) also in response to sentiments I'm gleaning from other posters here and there who may be following in Allan's footsteps.

      When I was a teenager I had a friend who was emotionally screwed up as a product of divorce. When I was in high school I used to hang out with him a lot, play videogames, etc... One day he confided in me that he was going to commit suicide. He had me swear an oath of silence. I was too young to know how to handle this so I thought maybe if I just kept being supportive to him that he wouldn't follow through with it. Well, he wound up taking a bunch of sleeping pills and wound up getting his stomach pumped and was taken away to a psych ward for treatment. When a lot of questions were asked of me I felt a tremendous amount of guilt that I didn't tell an adult about his situation. I also felt guilty that after that event I didn't really want to try to be friends with him again. He called once from where he was staying and I think he made a brief appearance back in school and then disappeared. I don't know if he got a GED or not but the last time I saw him he was managing at the local pizza place, which was an awkward reunion.

      When I come here and I read posters who are showing signs of suicide ideation I can't help but have PSTD style flashbacks to the above. I wonder whether the mods here can develop any sort of policy to deal with warning sign behavior or we're just expected to sort of casually wave bye bye as people signal their intent and then follow through...

      The other issue for me is a more practical one. I understand that misery loves company but if you spend a lot of time with suicidal people, I hate to say it, but it drags you down. I wonder whether it's the best thing in the world for people who are on the edge to be constantly exposed to those who have resigned themselves to jump.

      And it's not just suicidal in general, but the associated negativity and anger that I see expressed here on a regular basis, anger that often bleeds over into poster-on-poster hostility.

      I know I'm generalizing but sometimes I wonder whether it really is therapeutic for me to interface with other sufferers if so many of them just aren't very pleasant to be around.

      As much as my hyperacusis makes me sensitive to loud sounds, I find myself increasingly sensitive to and repulsed by negativity. This is difficult because the world overall has become so cynical and negative, even in our entertainment which rarely functions as an escape anymore.

      As much as tinnitus functions like a wet blanket onto our pleasure-centers I do think things are made worse the more we wallow and obsess on it. This is why I was writing in My Posting Place about trying to practice gratitude. But I think some people are sort of attached to their suffering almost like a martyr-complex or something. Offering some techniques to make things less miserable and less hopeless feels almost like an attack vs. the comfort of the status quo I suppose.

      I don't really have anything more to add besides this but I just wanted to open this discussion because I must not be the only one feeling this way.
       
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    2. Lilah
      Bashful

      Lilah Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I am okay if people are using Tinnitus Talk as an outlet to express how they are feeling including suicidal thoughts but any instance where the member is trying get others to join the bandwagon, influence others, or if there are plans/pacts being made, this should not be tolerated.

      While the member's suicidal thoughts and feelings of depression are understandable we should also be concerned about others who are at a critical stage not to be influenced this way.
       
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    3. GORYLUCK

      GORYLUCK Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2000ish
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Bloody noise ototoxic reactions blithering idiotness
      Hi Glenn... I'd like to say I've enjoyed your input... much as it's polarized some here... more about this at the end...
      I have struggled to um ahh fuck! Ummm...
      Ahhhhh get my thoughts together with this damn noise in my head... so excuse me for not being able to participate... but I wanna try... but these thoughts may come out a bit disjointed...
      Hmmmm...
      But something in me shifted today...
      Forgive me... (it's right up there with gratitude... haha)

      Ummmm actually the Suicidal thread has been my favorite because I get to empathize because they're struggling like me (even if I don't know what to say)... and in some weird (sick?) way, that helps me... knowing there's others with me in this sinking boat... and that keeps me afloat... a little bit longer...

      No one that espouses suicide really wants to die... they just want an end to it.. the misery (of tinnitus)... yet paradoxically they perpetuate their misery by feeding it...
      Yes they be better STFU... or at least after their moan, saying what positive step(s) they are going to take to collapse their wave function (@Contrast)... towards a more healing direction/reality...

      Agreed.

      Could we all just end on some positive note even if it's just... ok now excuse me why I take my cat out into the woods and strangle him/her because I know I'll be better off without the screeching... (?)
      Hahahehe (obviously)

      (Um maybe you need therapy for your guilt... have you tried CBT??? Heehee)

      As for your interfacing policy... Empathize... and offer positive possibilities... even if you'll be mocked... You can always skim over suicidal/negative posts/threads because life is about what battles to fight/let go of...

      Hmmmm what I'm actually more repulsed by... What causes me to despair the most at humanity... is not negativity... But it's polarizing opinions.
      Oh fuck this.
      I believe in that.
      There can be no room... No consideration for Any Other Possibility that differs from My Belief System.
      Full. Fucking. Stop.
      It ends All Positive discussion.
      For this, you are most guilty...
      But I love you all the same haha.

      So please... if you want them to be more positive... stop being so fkn polarizing.

      Because after all...
      W...T...F... do we know?
      Especially when we bring the Most Magical Possibilities of Quantum Physics into It?!

      Psst... thank you for helping to get my brain going again...
       
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    4. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      This thread is full of three consecutive garbage posts above. If you don't want to read about suicide or posters talking about it, don't read it!

      It's total bullshit to allege that a poster who discusses it or thinks about it will be influenced by another poster doing the same thing. Tinnitus is unique for each individual but a commonality can be possible among the states in which it's particularly loud and intrusive.
       
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    5. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      What I said in the OP that the attitudes of your social circle impact you over time is true. If you spend a lot of your time interfacing with negative people, don't be surprised if your attitudes start skewing negative, or vice versa. I'm not trying to accuse suicidal posters of directly causing other members to commit suicide, but it definitely has a dragged-down effect. This is why, by and large, people usually prefer to hang with optimists (aka the happy gene) people.

      Sure, the solution is to just not read those threads, and that would be fine if said posters exclusively posted in those threads. Next step is to lean on the ignore feature. But I guess I was asking too much of this forum to expect it to function as a bidirectional support group. You have people who come here who have no interest in helping or being helped but rather to just rant. And hey, if they want to do that, that's their prerogative, but they also disrupt the flow of other threads. It just seems like on the internet people treat freedom to rant as a God given right and to even question it is to touch off a flamewar. But I'm under the impression Tinnitus Talk has a reputation as being the largest and most important gathering of tinnitus sufferers. I don't think it's good optics to have things be a complete free-for-all.
       
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    6. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      I have no problem with people discussing suicide if they do it in a controlled environment, like the suicide thread that is going. You know if you click on that thread, you are going to read about people discussing suicide.

      I do not think it is okay for people to discuss and suggest people commit suicide who are struggling and looking for help outside of the specific Suicide thread. Many people here struggle in the beginning and sometimes during spikes. During that time people can become suicidal, but majority of the time people get better and are happy they didn’t give into that thinking. We see this so often it is almost a standard here. When people read these posters suggesting suicide, all it takes is one vulnerable person who doesn’t know it will most likely get better for them to prematurely kill themselves in the heat of the moment.

      I also strongly disagree with the idealization and promotion of suicide some members here have. Again idc if you do it on the Suicide thread, but it shouldn’t leave that thread. It is bringing negativity to other parts of the forum and putting thoughts in people’s heads that the majority shouldn’t even consider. I feel users who do this should be banned because they are just dragging people down with them.

      In conclusion, idc if you talk about it in a dedicated thread, but don’t take it elsewhere. Anyone who tries to convince people or promote suicide outside of that thread should be banned. Plain and simple.
       
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    7. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I completely disagree with a ban. I think all forums for chronic serious diseases/conditions likely have this debate. There was the same debate in a Meniere's forum I used to read (early on, when I was misdiagnosed as having Meniere's). I had the same opinion then as I do now.

      Keeping suicidal members from posting or restricting their spaces does not help them. Further isolating suicidal members negatively effects their mental state. They are already isolated precisely because friends and family don't want to deal with their negativity.

      Similarly, we keep trying to advocate for change because this condition can be bad enough to make people suicidal. Censoring those people would make us hypocrites. We want people to hear from the worse off of us so they know how bad tinnitus truly is but we don't want to hear it ourselves? I am very against that idea.

      Suicidal people need to be listened to. Patiently. For a long time. No one gets helped with a brief positivity pep talk and certainly no one gets helped by being censored. And counseling or "getting help" is not enough. Any counselor will tell you that a good support system is *necessary* even with counseling. I know this personally.

      As far as the "contagion" problem, it is known that having a veteran friend that killed themselves does increase the rate of a veteran commiting suicide. Is the solution to not have veterans talk about this? Or to isolate individuals so they have no network if they do kill themselves?

      If there are people feeling more negative after reading certain people's post, hide that person. I just can't support further isolation and I think it hurts our entire cause.
       
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    8. Fifth Business

      Fifth Business Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Deafening applause (ppl clap loudly after reading my posts)
      This is such a bad OP!!

      It cruelly diminishes the suffering of people experiencing the worst thing that could ever possibly happen to someone (meaning tinnitus-though I like to shorten this word to just 'T')

      If you want some real content please read my 10k+ posting history (it's not filled with unfettered mental illness i swear) concerning my master thesis on how there's NO mental health component correlated with tinnitus distress

      Sick of clown world. Sick of normies. Sick of honkler scum. Sick of living!!
       
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    9. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      I didn’t say that they shouldn’t be allowed to talk about suicide or should be banned just for talking about it.

      If you read my previous post again, you will see that I am for people talking about suicide in a controlled environment where they can discuss it with others who want to discuss it. That means talking about it in a thread dedicated to suicide. A large portion of the forum doesn’t want to see or discuss this topic, which is why having its own thread is ideal. Those individuals who want to discuss suicide can do so, while others can avoid it if they don’t want to.

      What is wrong with this?

      Also, I only say individuals who glamorize and promote suicide to other users should be banned. Discussing it is fine, but suggesting and telling people to do it is beyond disgusting. I have seen it so many times where someone is looking for support and someone starts talking about suicide or suggesting they commit suicide. What fucked up advise is that? The person is trying to learn and deal with tinnitus and is describing their struggle and someone is telling them that they should consider suicide? People struggle with Illnesses everyday, but do we suggest they commit suicide because they are struggling currently with something? No we don’t...

      We all know suicide is an issue with tinnitus. It’s not like we are ignoring it or saying it doesn’t happen. I just don’t want to be reminded about it every time I visit the forum. I am sure that the majority of people who come here for support feel the same way.

      I have also tried to help people on here who want to commit suicide. I try to ask them to get help or understand their situation to try and help, and they just laugh at me or mock me for trying to help. I am trying to help them and put in my own personal time, yet I am mocked or attacked. I’m not going to hurt my own well being trying to help someone who throws it in my face. It’s not fair to me. So I decided that I can try to reach out and help, but if I get consistent negative responses I’m no longer going to try and help.
       
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    10. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      And that's fine if they actually wanted a dialogue. None of us here are trained therapists and most of us could use just as much emotional support as we're offering to others. Everyone should feel some minimum amount of solidarity here and not be so quick to lapse into hostility. Another thing I've noticed is that some of the most suicidal posters are those who have had tinnitus for a very short period of time. You'd think they'd be interested in what those who have managed to carry on for decades had to say. You can't help those who don't really want help. It's all too easy for suffering to lead to walling yourself off emotionally and using anger like a drug. I can understand it but I'm not going to validate or enable it.
       
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    11. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Can you show me an example of where someone said that another user should consider suicide? Because if that happened, then I can understand the concern but I have been all over MPP and haven't seen this.

      As far as being attacked, people who are suffering lash out.

      Someone lashed out on me on the suicide thread when I tried to point out that regenerative medicine was coming and I just remembered they are hurting and didn't take it personally. They insulted my worthless "false hope" so I just stopped interacting and moved on and just hoped to myself he gets support somehow or relief because clearly I was not the right person to interact with him. Some people just rub others the wrong way. It's hard, but I think you can have empathy for them anyway.

      As far as Contrast, from an outside point of view, it seems like he really doesn't want to talk about his medical problems and I think badgering him to open up (even if very clearly well intentioned) doesn't help.

      I really dislike the way society treats mental health sufferers in general (and I'm putting people in situational mental health distress in this category for the point I am trying to make). They definitely don't take things case by case and often infantilize the sufferer by knowing (even if they don't know the person well or their case) better than they do what they need. Everyone *needs* to be more positive or *needs* to see a therapist or *needs* this drug or that. It wouldn't make sense to you or me, but maybe some people feel better by shit posting with their friends. I think we need to let people have a little self determination in finding what works for him.

      Maybe for someone railing against CBT, and toxic positivity and what they see as wrong in the world might give them a purpose and a reason to hold on longer. Who knows? Regardless, I don't think censorship is the answer or isolating posts to one section (the "controlled environment"). Wouldn't it make more sense just to hide the person's post you don't want to see?
       
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    12. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explanation in About You
      It doesn’t bother me. If anything it shows the degree of suffering many of us go through.

      I can’t speak for others but when I’d be browsing this forum the last 3 years I would simply scroll past the suicide threads and comments because they didn’t apply to me (still only had mildish tinnitus at the time). They didn’t influence me one way or another. Even when they’d pop up in other threads. It was “oh god I feel for them, we need a legitimate treatment” and move on.

      What it did is open my eyes to how many people have had their lives ripped away from them. And now I am one of them too, and seeing those comments every now and then helps me not feel so alone.

      If you don’t want to be reminded of suicide on a tinnitus forum that is one (if not the only one) that allows severe sufferers to share their thoughts on what is a pretty depressive and horrific situation then I don’t know what to tell you :/
       
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    13. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      You're clueless. The people who have severe tinnitus are discussing suicide and it's reality that loud and severe tinnitus makes people want the tones/noises to stop or at reduce. Your post just shows you're an insensitive moron.
       
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    14. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      Why do people think that everyone can be helped? Can you reduce and improve someone's tinnitus?
       
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    15. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      Very sensible reaction. If my tinnitus was mild and I hadn't experienced severe tinnitus, I would probably think like that or would like to think I would.
       
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    16. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      I try to ignore posters like Lilah and Jack Straw but it's difficult.

      But, to call people suffering severe tinnitus and thus feeling like it's better if they took their life (i.e. suicidal), a 'bandwagon' is messed up to me. I don't understand their rationale. I can only only conclude that their tinnitus isn't severe or as bad. Sorry but I can't help but conclude that. I can't come up with anything else.

      I come back to the same repetitive explanation: loud high pitched tinnitus and in my case, several tones, is not normal. Humans desire silence (in their ears and brain). It's normal and natural. It's logical and typical that mild tinnitus is an annoyance but people cope. But, if it becomes or is moderate or worse still, severe, it's more difficult to function or cope. I think it's difficult to express in words and the fact no one else can hear someone else's tinnitus makes it even more difficult to understand and relate to someone else's feelings and desperation in wanting the option of suicide. Unless, someone has empathy or severe tinnitus themselves, it's common to run into the attitudes like the two posters' previously mentioned.
       
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    17. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      @PeteJ

      I wrote a longer angrier post, but I deleted it because regardless of how angry your post made me, I know I shouldn't respond in anger.

      You say I don't understand tinnitus. I have had tinnitus for over 25 years. I have NEVER heard silence my entire life. Let that sink into your head and then re-evaluate your statement. I can 100% guarantee that I understand tinnitus and what suffering from tinnitus means.

      Seeing that you have spit in my face and insulted me after I tried to help you multiple times in the past, I am going to block you.

      I am going to leave you with this, if your tinnitus is as bad as you say it is, DO SOMETHING about it. My tinnitus effects me so bad that I regularly donate my money and, in the past, my time to Tinnitus Hub. Complaining on the forum is literally doing nothing for you.

      Best of luck to you and congratz on being the first and only person I blocked. I hope things do turn around for you, and you understand one day that some people suffer silently....
       
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    18. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      If that's the only criteria for help, then no. It's just kind of sad that a chunk of posters are here not really to connect with other sufferers ala a true support group but to just engage in primal screams.

      BTW, @PeteJ, the other thing that turns me off being here is the "victim olympics" aspect of "my tinnitus is worse than your tinnitus--you just don't understand!!!" Do we want to start carving up and dividing the forum Balkans style into cliques based on severity because everyone who has tinnitus worse than the level below them feels that the level below them simply can't understand and isn't worth communicating with?

      I know I'm not a moderator but I've seen this thing crop up multiple times and it's annoying. I don't resent mild tinnitus sufferers. I envy them, but I don't resent them. There's a way to express how your suffering differs without feeling the need to get angry at them.
       
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    19. Star64
      Kick ass

      Star64 Member

      Location:
      Melbourne Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      I fully understand why some members might find the topic of suicide confronting and hence want this topic to be contained to a certain thread, but I agree with you 100 per cent we should not police or restrict others from posting in other areas.

      I have not witnessed many people expressing suicidal ideation away from the Suicidal thread, in fact the posts that I have read in other places are doing so because they feel a connection with the people that are regularly on that thread, which I regard as a positive.

      Allowing people to express their thoughts is important and is actually beneficial for suicide prevention. It is a common myth that talking or reading about suicide encourages people to think about it.

      These people need our support, what they don't need is our biases and moral beliefs coming into the conversation.

      They need HOPE and support, but sadly even with that people will still decide to end their life.
       
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    20. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      I don't care if you block me.

      If you have tinnitus for 25 years, why are you so harsh towards sufferers? I am always courteous and empathetic especially towards people here who make it clear it's severe and who think of suicide as a way to stop their tinnitus. I don't judge them or get mad about their posts or such posts in general. I guess you are not reading this. I just wanted to be clear that I never mean anything negative or hostile towards anyone but tinnitus can be so bad, you just want it to stop if it can't be reduced or improved. There's no way to really do this for most people.

      Many posters express that better than I do. I understand that having to read of people suffering so much that they prefer suicide is too depressing, melancholic or even morbid, but that is what severe tinnitus can do. I have no money and can't work because of it so I can't donate anything even if I would want to. There's nothing that can be done.

      I sound angry but that's frustration and feelings of hopelessness. I think many understand. I know many can still be civil always no matter what they read here and good for them.

      P.S. I would have edited my other post to you but the option wasn't there. Again, I temporarily get angry reading something but it passes. I feel bad for posting something that is mean or can be interpreted as mean. I don't feel that. It's pointless. I don't feel better and everyone is in the same boat whether it's a tanker, ship or canoe. Regardless of whether anyone agrees, I think wanting suicide because tinnitus is too loud (i.e. severe) is perfectly normal albeit sad and it should be acknowledged more by the tinnitus community. It's a sad reality and imho, the only solution is a breakthrough in treatments meaning a real treatment (something that heals the damage or whatever is causing the tinnitus and what makes it become worse).
       
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    21. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Do we actually know the circumstances of Allan's passing yet? He evidently left quite a large footprint of posts here, and many of the posts do suggest that he did end up taking his own life, however, I'm not sure this has been confirmed. That said, I'm speaking with the assumption that Allan did take his own life.

      Certainly from my point of view, and I daresay many here, one of the most profoundly sad aspects of this tragedy is that we understand why Allan ended things because like him we suffer with tinnitus ourselves. The vast majority will not take their lives but it is a harsh reality of this condition that some will.

      I don't live that far away from where Allan lived. There were many times while following his posts from around October time last year that I really wanted to reach out to him in the "real" world and try and talk, perhaps go meet with him etc. To be perfectly frank though, I do not regret not doing this in the end. It just didn't feel like the appropriate thing to do. And it also didn't feel like my place to do it if that makes sense, which sounds awfully uncaring but ultimately what can we do? Tell the person to ring The Samaritans? Call the Police or local hospital and try get the person sectioned? Get in touch with the family? We're an online community and there's definitely a line between what we can and can't be expected do.

      In hindsight, I think I reached a point where I understood that Allan had become the arbiter of his own destiny, and I'm sad to say, having experienced a couple of people that I've known in my own life commit suicide, once a person has made that decision there's practically nothing even those closest to him can do about it, let alone an online community. Nevertheless, the way things played out with Allan, sharing his most intimate thoughts, particularly his penultimate post here, and then discovering he had passed, is so profound that I don't think I'll ever forget it.

      I don't believe censoring talk of suicide here on Tinnitus Talk is the right thing do to. But I do take @GlennS's point as well. There needs to be a middle ground. This is all very real now and I think we have to have a discussion about what this site can and can't, should or shouldn't do when or if it becomes clear that one of it's members is a potential suicide risk.
       
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    22. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      This is a subject that will never be resolved or agreed upon with binary thinking. In other words, there is no right or wrong way to go about this. We all have a unique view of the world that is shaped by our experiences, our upbringing, our culture, and the people we associate with, etc. Our moral compass is unique to us and sometimes we have to accept that our values will conflict with others even when both parties have the best of intentions at heart. Talking about suicide is a real conundrum.

      My personal view is that everyone should have complete freedom to express their thoughts and feelings at all times, and this includes talk of being suicidal. This should NEVER be glossed over or censored. However, I also think that people should try to maintain a certain level of respect for each other and should talk like they would if they were face to face. Things can get heated sometimes and that’s normal, but there is always a line. Continuous toxic behaviour is not acceptable or excusable just because one is suffering, in my opinion. We still have control over how we interact with and treat each other, that is unless one is clinically insane of course. I know we all have different personality traits and backgrounds, but I honestly don’t think that one’s behaviour can be completely excused under the veil of “they are suffering.” Nearly everyone on this forum is in one form or another. We all have battle scars and deep-seated problems that we carry around with us 24/7.

      In short, try to be respectful as you never know what others are going through and it’s not always about just ourselves.
       
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    23. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      So, we should all attempt to he respectful but also try to understand people's pain and not sequester or ban anyone if they are "negative". I think at least most of us can agree on that.
       
      • Agree Agree x 7
    24. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      You keep bringing up my discussion of bans like I wanted to ban everyone who discussed suicide.

      For the third time, I only want people to be banned who glorify and promote suicide to people who are vulnerable. Read the chat on over a week ago and you will see it there. Those individuals should be banned. The reason you don’t see these posts elsewhere is because they get removed by the admins.

      Like I said before, I don't care if people talk about suicide in the suicide thread. They can talk about it all they want. I don’t think it is healthy for the forum for it to bleed into every other discussion.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Like Like x 1
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    25. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I still think restricting people to one section to talk about suicide sends the wrong message. We need to be as willing to confront the reality on a daily basis. How can we expect our political leaders to see the reality if we don't want to face it ourselves? We need less severe sufferers and forum viewers to see how bad it can get and not quarantine the discussion. Otherwise, why should politicians care about a bunch of whiners who aren't positive enough or have a "victim mentality." Like it or not, that is the message that is sent.

      As far as "glorifying" suicide, would a mention of Dignitas be considered that? What about people saying they would look forward to silence and peace in their death? Those are understandable statements to me. Not allowing people to express this freely across the forum does not reduce their suffering whether we like it or not.

      Anger at a lack of real cures for most of us is also understandable. And so is lashing out. Yes, I agree people should make an effort not to be unkind but I can't get behind a sequestration or a ban to those that don't comply.

      If you reach out to attempt to help someone (and I believe it is with sincerity and with what you feel personally is the best advice), it is about them not you. If they lash out and you feel attacked, just block them like you did with PeteJ. Because, in the end, it shouldn't be about you if you try to help someone. Even if you have the best of intentions when reaching out and someone doesn't want your help (even if they get salty with you as on MPP), it still shouldn't be about you. Not that it's not normal to feel hurt and insulted but the solution is just to hide those individuals imo.
       
      • Agree Agree x 7
      • Like Like x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    26. Jack Straw
      Balanced

      Jack Straw Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      US
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990s
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection, Acoustic Trauma
      If everyone who doesn’t want to read about suicide blocks the people who do discuss suicide like you said, then they are getting isolated even more because no one will see their posts.

      If person A discusses suicide and person B-Z doesn’t want to read it, they block him. When he goes to discuss other topics outside of tinnitus or other aspects of tinnitus, no one will see him posting. Thus isolating him more.

      If suicide talk was kept to a thread and no one blocked him, he could still engage with people who otherwise would have blocked him.

      I think my alternative is better than blocking someone.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    27. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I'm going to have to disagree with you if no other reason than the message we send as a community.

      Agree to disagree I guess.
       
      • Agree Agree x 7
      • Like Like x 2
    28. MrCrybaby

      MrCrybaby Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2014, 10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      School Band, Acoustic Trauma
      I think this thread showcases the sort of infighting that distracts us from taking action as a community. Tinnitus isn’t a competition, we’re all on the same side.

      The researchers aren’t fighting just for sufferers who have a certain pitch, tone or volume, or only sufferers who have or have not been able to habituate. They want to help ALL of us. We might as well follow their lead and stop fighting about who has it worst, none of us have silence and it sucks.

      If you’re having a hard time, I hope you get all the support you need to keep on living. I’m optimistic about a cure, and I want the people who are suffering most to get their hands on it. If venting about suicidal ideation helps them so be it.

      If you’re coping well why not use your skills to help further our cause? You can lend your skills to Tinnitus Talk, donate money to research, or reach out to government to make you voice heard.

      What needs to stop is this fight to the peak of suffering, because at some level we all are. Why else would we be on a support forum after all? People having a hard time are not “negative” and assuming you know the full extent of another members situation is rude.

      If we put the time and energy we put into these long posts into awareness and activism we could make a real difference.
       
      • Winner Winner x 5
      • Like Like x 3
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Creative Creative x 1
    29. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      THERE IS NO SUPPORT FOR ME. I don't know about others but if you read posts in the suicide thread, it sounds like quite a few people don't have support either.

      That IS THE PROBLEM. No matter what you do, there's nothing that can help. The multiple tones, pitch and volume is torturing me right now. If you gave me a .45, I would use it. I ****ing hate it. If others profess to have similar tinnitus, I don't see how they don't feel the same. That's why I compare. I apologize but I can't help it.

      I can't even escape with sleep or at bedtime because there's too many tones and it's too loud.

      I read a post in which someone said their tinnitus 'almost hurts.' I think I know what they mean. Why is it so loud? What does it mean? No one can answer that. Researchers are fucking worthless. There's a few videos posted of severe suffers describing their tinnitus. So was this sent to governments? Health departments? Politicians? No one but us gives a shit. No one cares. That's what makes me angry and it's pointless. It doesn't matter.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Hug Hug x 1
    30. mrbrightside614

      mrbrightside614 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      NE Ohio, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      July 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      Literally every time I offer my thoughts on the suicide thread, even when I quote members’ questions about sleep difficulties and @ other members, it’s completely ignored.

      I am someone who was suicidal through some 4.5 months of this predicament. At month 3ish I got put on some non-addictive sleep meds and started to not feel like I’m at death’s door every day. Does life suck? Of course it does. This is a living nightmare. But I believe people’s #1 problem in the suicide phase is lack of sleep—it causes the most poisonous, hair-brained, impulsive, self-destructive thoughts. You literally cannot think straight and it is not your fault. But they ask questions to which I frequently have answers as I was PUT INTO A FKN PSYCH WARD OVER IT, and it’s still not acknowledged or seen as valid.

      In conclusion, keep the thread, but I agree with @Jack Straw —if they take it to another part of the forum, that can’t stand.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5

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