Agnostics “R” Us...

For some time it has occurred to me that there should be a thread for those of us who consider ourselves to be reflective, spiritual beings without a conviction or belief in a god.

 

I quit my belief when I realized the Christian god is just a hypocritical, violent, jealous jerk that ironically embodies the same sins that are preached against.

Since then I have had my agnostic beliefs strengthened through the learning and realization that the Abrahamic religions cannibalized earlier religions and cultures that came before it.

 

Hideous blatant blackmail, on a grand scale....

 

@Jazzer this is me I don't believe in the structure of religion or the ideas as a child that were thrust on me. But, I have respect for those who do believe I just wish it would be the same for my beliefs.

I know I have this spirit guide that takes me places I need to be. I can feel it all around me and when I don't listen sometimes I feel as if the spirit guide pokes me to get my attention. That is how I wound up here on TT and why our paths crossed. And it is in no way a religious thing at all.

Anyways...I just wanted to say Hey because I haven't been able to log on for very long.

Still love ya....

 

Does that mean you just water your plants while listening to some traditional eastern music or something?

Being "spiritual" is just LARPing

 

Bingo. Jazzer I love you.

 

Love you too babe,
Dave x
Jazzer

 

You too Manny !
(....er.....people might start talking?)

 

What’s that ???

 

Live action role playing
Like Dungeons and Dragons but acted out with a typically large group, as opposed to a small one sitting around a table.

 

I was brought up in a church (Salvation Army) from zero to age eighteen.
I heard squillions of sermons, billions of hymns, countless prayers.
In a pain of crippling infant neglect I prayed for help endlessly.

“Dear God, if you exist, please put your loving arms around me - hold me - help me to feel your presence with me in my life - please - please - please - I have nobody - I need you.”

There were endless tears - they flowed for ever.
Four years ago I woke up with severe chronic Tinnitus.
Don’t you think I prayed.
I prayed my very guts out.
“God - for Christ’ sake help me !!!”

At no time did I hear “a small still voice.”
At no time did I ever feel a godly presence with me.

Throughout 76 years of trying.........NOTHING.
I do not believe in an all knowing, all powerful, all loving god.
Why would I ??

Occasionally I have queried god’s existance on biblical posts on here, and usually been asked to leave.
I quite understand, by the way.
My questioning disbelief seems to threaten the belief of others.

It occurred to me that there should be a thread for doubters, disbelievers, agnostics like me, atheists etc...to debate the issue.

It then occurred to me that the believers may be so ‘affronted’ by it as to wish to tear it down.

Will this thread be allowed by “the powers that be” to survive?
I do hops so.

We’ll have to wait and see.

I’d like to say “Hi” to all the doubters/disbelievers out there.
Don’t ever forget - we are all good, courageous, fearless, free thinking people.

Much love,
Dave x
Jazzer

 

Lol don't worry we're only half a century apart in age
By the way i left my religion, at least in terms of belief... Long story lol

 

A spiritual being, could mean being:
religious, devotional, churchy, etc...

but could equally mean being:
humanist, kind, empathic, meditational, transcendental etc.....

Religion does not hold the monopoly.

 

I know what you mean. It wasn't overnight that I lost my faith and became agnostic, but it was more of a process.

I don't normally care to debate philosophy or religion with other people because if it helps them and it's not harming anyone in the process then who am I to take that hope away from them?

For what it's worth, I have seen religion help people get through tough times. I think the primary utility of religion is how it affects the lives of those who believe it and how it affects the lives around those who believe it. For some it's a net positive, for others it's a negative.

 

Good response Alue - you achieved the near impossible - you persuaded me to think a bit differently, and to examine my motives.
Why do I involve myself with debates on the viability of religion ??
Throughout Sunday school, church, the whole schmear, I was taught that God is all knowing, all loving, all powerful, ever present etc....
yet whenever I have turned to him - even at desperate times - I have experienced absolutely no response.
Net result - disappointment and disbelief.
Whether god actually exists, of course I have absolutely no idea.
The classic agnostic position.

But as you quite rightly say - belief does give the believer comfort and purpose - so perhaps it is better to leave well alone.
However, if I am engaging with a proselytising evangelist, I do find myseltf in full flight.
Thanks for your thought provoking response.

 

For me, there's no difference between spiritual and religious. I'm simply unable to believe in the supernatural. It doesn't matter if it's God or spirits or souls. I wish I could believe in the supernatural. I think people who believe have something to cling to in bad times. But I can't make myself believe. I've tried. So I'm stuck being a purely material creature in a purely material universe just waiting for my unique consciousness to be snuffed out forever and hoping my life doesn't suck too much before that happens.

 

I have to disagree with you here SM.
Spirituality does not depend on a deity.
If you you have love and empathy for others, you are spiritual, as that transcends selfishness.

I can not just decide to “believe” in god.
Belief comes from a convicion of his existance.
Having prayed for help, for his presence in my life, on countless occasions, and received zilch, I cannot believe.
God can only be of comfort to those with conviction.
I have massive doubts.

You are definitely not “a purely material creature, SM - you’ll just have to take my word for it.” xx
Dave
Jazzer

 

Me neither. But I also cannot just decide to believe in any other supernatural thing. To me, it doesn't matter if it's God or Buddha or Vishnu or even just spirits. As much as I would like to, I just can't believe in the supernatural.

I think the unique consciousness of each being is just chemical and electrical activity in the brain and when the brain dies that person dies. No soul or spirit to carry on. This is not a worldview I recommend. I just happen to be a skeptic by nature.

I hope I'm wrong about that. I have read from most of the world's religious traditions hoping to find something that would make me believe in something other than matter-in-motion. The Gospels. The Bhagavad Gita. The Lotus Sutra. The Tao Te Ching. The Tibetan Book of the Dead. I found beauty in all of them, but I was looking for truth. Or perhaps proof is a better word. There may be truth there, but without proof, they're just voices crying in the wilderness.

In my non-supernatural worldview, I would just call that morality. But whatever it's called, there needs to be a lot more of it in the world.

 

Mustn’t lose our sense of perspective......