Coffee Fruit Extract to Increase BDNF?

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by patorjk, Jan 9, 2021.

    1. patorjk
      No Mood

      patorjk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      We now know that OTO-413 (BDNF) can improve hearing when injected into the cochlea. It's got me wondering if supplements that increase BDNF in the body can have any kind of noticeable effect.

      I know there were people trying high doses of Turmeric / Curcumin, with some claiming it helped - though many others said they noticed nothing.

      However, poking around online it looks like Coffee Fruit is a more potent supplement for increasing BDNF. Has anyone tried it?

      I also wonder if stacking various BDNF supplements (Coffee Fruit Extract, Curcumin, Lutein, Fish Oil) could have an effect.
       
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    2. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
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    3. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      patorjk
      No Mood

      patorjk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      Otonomy's OTO-413 drug is a sustained-exposure formulation of BDNF that is injected into the ear. The top-line results from their Phase I/II study showed positive results:

      https://investors.otonomy.com/static-files/b9c45563-9e81-423d-8eb9-c12f103c56ac

      So my thinking is that if we can increase the BDNF in our body, it'll get back to the cochlea in some amount, thus causing some therapeutic benefit.
       
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    4. Aaron91
      Gloomy

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
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      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      This is something I've been looking into for a while as my hyperacusis has become very debilitating and I need solutions.

      My layman understanding is that for something like this to work, you really have to commit to it for a long time (3 months, perhaps). The problem we have is getting a high enough concentration to the cochlea. When taking BDNF systematically as opposed to a local injection, it has to be in your bloodstream for a very long time for it to eventually cross the blood-labyrinth barrier in notable quantities. Interestingly, there was a study that showed dark cocoa increased BDNF levels, but it took something like 12 weeks for it to become something noticeable/measurable in the body.

      Not only this, but in addition to taking things that increase BDNF, you must also avoid substances/behaviours to decrease BDNF as well, otherwise it's kind of pointless increasing your BDNF with supplements for it to only be depleted. I would also add NT-3 and NGF as well for good measure, as a couple of studies have shown NT-3 is just as important if not more than BDNF. So, here's my list so far, which I'm thinking of starting and committing to from this week:

      Foods/supplements that increase BDNF: Dark Cocoa (preferably 95-100%), Curcumin, Coffee Fruit Extract, Fish Oil, Quercetin, Resveratrol (although someone once posted Resveratrol can prevent neurogenesis so I don't know about this one??)
      Behaviours that increase BDNF: High intensity exercise, good sleep routine, meditation and intermittent fasting (not 16 hours on 8 hours off but more like 48 hours minimum of full fasting)
      Other supplements that help BDNF: Niacin, Magnesium.

      Foods that decrease BDNF: sugars and carbs
      Other things that decrease BDNF: bad sleep routine, stress, anxiety etc.

      Supplements that increase NT-3: Astaxanthin and Lutein

      Nerve Growth Factor: Lion's Mane

      So if someone really wants to put this to the test, the above is what they need to commit to. A bunch of supplements, foods and good habits.

      Just a note on Curcumin: I never see benefits when I take it in pill form, even with black pepper. So my advice is to find a raw/unprocessed powder and make your own paste (two teaspoons of turmeric with black pepper and oil. It tastes horrible but this is all we can do).

      I really want to try this but it's quite difficult to commit to alone. If anyone wants to try something like this with me and exchange experiences I'm definitely up for it. Life is becoming excruciatingly painful.
       
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    5. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      patorjk
      No Mood

      patorjk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      I'm down for putting some of this to the test. I decided to purchase the following online:

      * Coffee Fruit Extract
      * Cocoa
      * Lutein

      I was reading that in one study Lutein showed that it can increase BDNF too, but like Cocoa it takes several weeks. I may also get some Fish Oil (I'm looking at the burpless kind, I've always stopped fish oil in the past because of the burps it gives me). I've tried Resveratrol in the past, but it always gives me terrible diarrhea, so I'll skip that one. I already take Turmeric daily, so I'll just keep doing that.
       
    6. Cher2

      Cher2 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      3/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      @Aaron91

      I found your post to be very helpful.

      I’ve been taking coffee berry extract along with several of the other things you mentioned. However, after reading your post, I now realize I need to take these things for a longer period of time.

      Also, what do these initials here stand for:

      “I would also add NT-3 and NGF as well for good measure, as a couple of studies have shown NT-3”

      Thanks,
      Cher2
       
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    7. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
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      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Ey @patorjk, have you considered a vegan alternative for Omega 3? I've been using Testa for many years now and it works like a charm (no burps whatsoever). BTW Theracurmin might also be of interest to you, as it has a higher bioavailability than normal Turmeric with pepper according to several studies.
       
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    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      patorjk
      No Mood

      patorjk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
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      I wasn't aware there was one. I'll definitely take a look at that and Theracurmin!
       
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    9. Aaron91
      Gloomy

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      NT-3 stands for Neurotrophin 3, and is similar to BDNF in that it is a nerve growth factor that supports the survival and differentiation of new neurons and synapses. There have been a couple of studies (here's just one) showing that BDNF should be coupled with NT3. NGF stands for nerve growth factor and again aids the survival of neurons. It's found in Lion's Mane and I see little to no harm in taking it for good measure.
       
    10. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Los Angeles
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      Nootropic Reviewer is a small YouTuber that produces good content on nootropics. He recommends Lion's Mane, Semax, Fish Oil, and Bacopa Monnieri to increase BDNF.

      4 Nootropics To Generate New Brain Cells
       
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    11. Cher2

      Cher2 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
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      Thanks!
      Thanks to you also @vttbx.
       
    12. Padraigh Griffin

      Padraigh Griffin Member Benefactor

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    13. Ben Winders
      Pensive

      Ben Winders Member

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      In that same video, the YouTuber also says BDNF is increased by cardio exercise and intermittent fasting (cites scientific sources for it).
       
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      patorjk
      No Mood

      patorjk Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      Just as an update, a week ago I finally got all the products for my BDNF stack:
      • Lutein (20mg, Vitamin Shoppe version)
      • Coffee Fruit Extract (Hawaiian version)
      • Cocoa (CocoaVia)
      It took so long because Amazon lost my package. Initially I tried powdered cocoa, but that was awful (it stuck to my mouth and was hard to swallow). I ended up ordering a pill form online.

      Also, as an interesting aside, while researching cocoa I came across this study:

      Association of Chocolate Consumption with Hearing Loss and Tinnitus in Middle-Aged People Based on the Korean National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey 2012⁻2013

      Apparently better hearing is correlated with people who have diets high in chocolate (though no noticeable effect was noticed for tinnitus). I imagine people's chocolate intake isn't high enough to raise their BDNF, so the protection benefit may not be related to that (and correlation doesn't always equal causation). However, it's not a bad reason for treating yourself to some chocolate :).
       
    15. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
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      A separate Korean study found higher potassium diets helped maintain hearing better during aging, and chocolate is higher in potassium. Dietary potassium intake increases aldosterone so there might be a correlation there.
       
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    16. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      I have bad GERD and had to stop fish oil in the past. I found enteric coated fish oil and now I tolerate it just fine. Here's the product I take: NewRhythm Triple Strength. I doubt it's helping me, but I'm tolerating it fine.
      I started taking this, actually as a direct result of your "status" post where you mentioned it. Very good find. It may be helping my hyperacusis a little bit; I can't tell. But it's a good thing to try.

      What other things have you tried for BDNF development? I'm thinking about trying fasting. I can't exercise, as that makes my hyperacusis a lot worse. I take Curcumin, Fish Oil, CBD, Nicotinamide Riboside, and Cat's Claw.
       
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    17. vermillion
      Whistles

      vermillion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
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      Possibly from Fluconazole / H + Dysacusis later on
      Did you begin to try it?

      I'm down to trying but it would be hard to do it alone as well.

      A couple of things that concerns me:
      - sleep regulation (I feel I have no control in that aspect)
      - anxiety control (sometimes it's impossible)
      - cardio (seems to make my symptoms worse)
       
    18. vttbx

      vttbx Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Los Angeles
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induced
      This is a great deep dive into BDNF by Dr. Patrick. Here is one take away:

      https://www.foundmyfitness.com/topics/bdnf

      Some small molecules (dinitrophenol and dihydroxyflavone) are effective at increasing brain BDNF levels or activating BDNF pathways. Stem cell transplants are another promising approach to restoring lost BDNF function. Dietary means of boosting BDNF include consumption of foods high in Omega 3 fatty acids (particularly the animal based DHA and EPA varieties), Lion’s Mane mushroom, and Lactobacillus Plantarum probiotic supplementation. Reduced caloric intake also appears to dramatically increase circulating BDNF. Resveratrol may be able to selectively increase brain levels of BDNF without increasing the risk of bowel irritability. Lastly, BDNF appears to play a fundamental role in glucose metabolism by acting hormonally to invoke insulin release by the pancreas.
       
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    19. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Hi @Zugzug, which version of Theracurmin do you use?

      I currently use this version, which seems to have more potential than other Theracurmin products.


      Here are some other things that I do to boost BDNF:

      -Caloric restriction (only eat 2x meals a day (morning and evening) with a green organic smoothie in the afternoon as lunch: around 1600-1800 calories a day. I've tried intermittent fasting for 3 months: it was a wholesome experience, but on the downside it also made me very grumpy at times. It's one of the reasons why I turned to caloric restriction)
      -Exposure to daylight (a walk in the park in the morning when there are almost no people around)
      -Deep sleep (I always take Mirtazapine + two Melatonin pills in the evening: minimally 9 hours of sleep a day)
      -Niacin (boosts BDNF)
      -Omega 3 (minimally 1.000 mg DHA daily by combining Omega 3 pills + nuts/seeds)
      -Probiotic pills (lactobacillus helveticus + bifidobacterium longum & lactobacillus brevis are three strains that stimulate production of BDNF in your body)
      -Organic Green Tea
      -Organic wild blue berries
      -Dark Chocolate (100% cacao + organic)
      -Soy (organic or fermented are good for your health)
      -Managing stress (e.g. by practising transcendental meditation: it doesn't increase BDNF per se, but it seems to help stabilise BDNF levels by avoiding stress)
       
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    20. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      I use the same version. I take 6 capsules (360 mg) per day. I realize that it's pricey, but it's the supplement I feel the most confident in. I may lower the dose and see if there are any changes -- then work down to the lowest dose I need.
       
    21. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      6 pills? Is that considered safe? I've tried max. 2 pills a day without any problems, but I hope it won't be a problem for you @Zugzug. Be sure to check with your GP just in case.
       
    22. Zugzug

      Zugzug Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Autoimmune hyperacusis from Sjogren's Syndrome
      As with most times with supplements, there are clinical trials indicating that up to 400 mg is safe, at least in the short term, even for cancer patients.

      Usually with supplements, I take a dose that is within the clinical trial limit, with intentions on reducing after 8-12 weeks.

      My doctor doesn't want anything to do with supplements. I think he knows that they lack long-term data on safety so doesn't want to officially recommend something.
       
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    23. Aaron91
      Gloomy

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      I’ve taken up to two headed teaspoons of raw organic Curcumin a day before over several weeks (not Turmeric) with no issues. In fact, I’d say it’s one of the few things that has helped me to manage my trigeminal neuralgia symptoms from hyperacusis, especially when I’ve combined it with Resveratrol.
       
    24. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Hi @Aaron91. I was just aimlessly wandering around on Tinnitus Talk until I saw your message. So weirdly enough I didn't get tagged or anything.

      Glad to hear it helped for you. I read some stories that too much Curcumin could have a negative effect on things like blood clotting. And who really knows how much of Theracurmin would put someone in harm's way.

      I also read your story about your plans to use dark chocolate for synapse repair. Have you also tried cacao nibs? I normally take about four tablespoons (around 68 grams) in the morning, and so far I noticed that it may have played a small part in reducing my HF tinnitus (I'd say around a 20-30% reduction, but my tinnitus is still fracking horrible).
       
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    25. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Does anybody know how to get something like Cacao flavanols capsules in Europe? I would like to use this in my diet and see where it goes, but unfortunately CocoaVia does not export to my country.
       
    26. Fields
      Busy

      Fields Member

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma
      I've actually been reading up on this, too. Unfortunately, it seems it's kinda difficult to find any cacao flavanol supplements in capsule form in Europe. However, according to a research paper linked in a different thread, 1 gram of high-quality cacao powder roughly contains 35mg of flavanols. Most cacao supplements in powder form advise you to mix 1 tablespoon (15g) with water, food, etcetera.

      This means you'd also be able to consume the required 450mg of flavanol per day, but in powder form. Cacao in (raw) powder form is readily available in the Netherlands, so I believe this should work. :)

      Holland & Barret currently has a promotion that gives you 50% off on any 2nd article of the same product.

      Perhaps someone in this thread could share his her or comments on this (before we go out and buy 1.5kg of cacao powder). ;)
       
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    27. GBB

      GBB Member Hall of Fame

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      I just bought some cacao nibs to try. Just wish I didn't have to eat 4 tablespoons as it is super bitter. Any other foods you would recommend?
       
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    28. Aaron91
      Gloomy

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      Yeah it’s not pleasant. I crush it into powder and then mix into some warm coconut milk. I then add cinnamon, nutmeg and a bit of maple syrup and suddenly it comes a lot more palatable, although you still end up with some mud-like slush at the bottom. I just down it and kind of accept it as a necessary evil. Let’s be honest, eating shit is nothing compared to what these conditions do to our psyche on a daily basis.

      I haven’t really come across anything else to be honest. Someone else has mentioned Lutein but I haven’t looked into it as much.

      There’s also an intra-nasal drug made in Russia called Semax that increases BDNF. It’s prohibited I believe elsewhere but apparently many Russians swear by it for different purposes. I remember finding a place I could source it from but there were concerns about temperature control during transit. Might be worth looking into though.
       
    29. Aaron91
      Gloomy

      Aaron91 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music/headphones/concerts - Hyperacusis from motorbike
      I have read about those concerns but to be honest it seems to only be a big deal if you’re on other medication because there can obviously be contraindications. I know I’d much rather take high dose Curcumin than go near something like Prednisone.

      As for cacao nibs, that’s basically what I take. I just have a big block of dried out cacao and slice and crush it into nibs. I don’t really pay much attention to my tinnitus anymore so it’s hard to say whether it’s helped there. To see synapse repair apparently you have to take it for 12 weeks and I just haven’t been disciplined enough to take it every day. I took it for about a month every day a few months ago and then took it for 3 weeks last month then stopped again for two weeks. Going to get back on it though and will report in time.
       
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    30. Christiaan
      Inspired

      Christiaan Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      The Hague, the Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2016: headphones, 2020: worsened thanks to Rammstein
      Hah, I actually went to Holland & Barrett the other day and people that were working there looked at me funny when I asked them about cacao extract supplements. Cacao powder on the other hand... wow, just wow. They had a special counter with a plethora of different cacao powder supplements and the like. I didn't buy any of it as I wasn't sure about the amount of flavonoids in cacao powder, but after reading your message I am actually heading back for my cacao fix :) Anyway, thanks for the tip @Fields, you saved the day(y)
       
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