Deanxit and Rivotril in Tinnitus Patients

[Tinnitus Talk]

Tinnitus Talk submitted a new resource:

Deanxit and Rivotril in Tinnitus Patients (version 1.0) - To investigate whether increased tinnitus reduction can be obtained with Deanxit and Rivotril.

The purpose of this study is to investigate whether increased tinnitus reduction can be obtained with Deanxit in patients already receiving Rivotril.


Estimated Enrollment: 50
Study Start Date: February 2009
Study Completion Date: July 2009
Primary Completion Date: July 2009 (Final data collection date for primary outcome measure)

Read more about this resource...

 

[Hudson]

Administration of the combination clonazepam-Deanxit as treatment for tinnitus

These were the best results to this study that I could find. I did not know what Rivotril was (I guess it's the Euro name for Clonazepam or Klonopin) until I had read this. It seems like they had some good results though. Perhaps they'll have a follow up study.

 

[Markku]

Yep, it's "Rivatril" in Finland.

So basically.. Clonazepam = Klonopin, Rivotril, Rivatril.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

The fact that this treatment is still being recommended despite the fact that Deanxit has been banned in nearly every country (bar Belgium) is scary to me. The trial shown is only an excerpt. DYOR on Deanxit.

It also shows zero clinical effect of Clonazepam mono therapy. Remember Clonazepam is primarily approved as an anti-convulsant but is more commonly used for its anti anxiety off label prescription. Good medicine is regarded as non-prescription of benzos in 2022.

What really frightens me is that a certain Professor recommended this treatment to me and suggesting immediately dropping all my existing medication (Paroxetine 40 mg and Seroquel 50 mg) to go on this combination.

I will let the readers decide two things.

1.) Is this good medicine from a prescribing point of view. Take tapering into account.
2.) Would a real world top tinnitus researcher recommend this.

To help I will attach a report re Paroxetine from the FDA:

Withdrawal from paroxetine can be severe, warns FDA

As regards Deanxit, it too is highly addictive plus has more drastic side effects.

So two highly addictive meds, one which is banned, and the other which is controversial and prone to abuse and not commonly prescribed anymore. Also Clonazepam is a 58-year-old medicine.

If this is the best the world's leading tinnitus researcher can do then I am very saddened.

Please, please, please DYOR on this. There are treatments coming. I would strongly not considering committing to two highly addictive medications when real treatments are possible soon.

No matter how desperate you are.

And, I have been desperate so many times.

Just trying to help!

 

[Uklawyer]

@Padraigh Griffin, what effect does Seroquel have on you? Seroquel is also supposed to be pretty strong. And Paroxetine can be tough going. It's hard with this shit.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

@Padraigh Griffin, what effect does Seroquel have on you? Seroquel is also supposed to be pretty strong. And Paroxetine can be tough going. It's hard with this shit.

I am off Seroquel. I used it for sleep. 50 mg to 25 mg. It worked. In small doses it targets H1 and H2 receptors only and does not go near the dopamine receptors. I found Mirtazapine has a simlilar effect so I use that now. 7.5 mg Mirtazapine at bedtime. Seroquel definitely had a more pronounced hangover effect and its side effect risks are far higher than Mirtazapine's.

Paroxetine is the work of the devil and I was prescribed it in too high a dose by an aggressive old school psychiatrist. I had complete insomnia at the time and was not in sound mind due to extreme stress. I simply did not sleep for 20 nights or more in a row after 6 months of 3-4 hours max a night when my twins boys were in hospital fighting for their lives. A fight they thankfully won, but my incubator vigil cost me big time. I'd do it all over again though.

I regret the day I temporarily lost my ability to make informed decisions but was under pressure from family to get better fast. I have tapered from 80 mg to 8 mg Paroxetine but it no doubt was the cause of my extreme tinnitus.

 

[Uklawyer]

I regret the day I temporarily lost my ability to make informed decisions but was under pressure from family to get better fast. I have tapered from 80 mg to 8 mg Paroxetine but it no doubt was the cause of my extreme tinnitus.

That sounds incredibly tough, @Padraigh Griffin. I, too was having a hard time when my wife insisted that I go to the GP and tell him about tinnitus which might have been caused by medication. That started me on a slippery slope of trying a handful of different meds before tinnitus got worse.

We may regret events, but we should not blame ourselves for their occurrence. I am happy that your boys pulled through. Next is your turn.

Did you have tinnitus prior to taking Paroxetine?

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

That sounds incredibly tough, @Padraigh Griffin. I, too was having a hard time when my wife insisted that I go to the GP and tell him about tinnitus which might have been caused by medication. That started me on a slippery slope of trying a handful of different meds before tinnitus got worse.

We may regret events, but we should not blame ourselves for their occurrence. I am happy that your boys pulled through. Next is your turn.

Did you have tinnitus prior to taking Paroxetine?

During my initial insomnia and I suppose sleep induced psychosis to a certain extent I had tinnitus but it went away. It was a low eeee and in retrospect very manageable. Unfortunately Paroxetine caused Middle Ear Myoclonus and sent my Tensor Tympani and Stapedius into constant spasm. The tinnitus I experienced was unimaginable. Torture on an inhumane level.

Luckily I found a great UK-based neurotolgist who performed surgery on my ears. First in November and second in January. Waiting for the dust to settle now and see what I am left with but I do have hearing loss so not expecting silence. Anything manageable I will take. At present the right ear is still spasming crazy but it takes a while for the muscle to give up the ghost. The surgery cured my pulsatile tinnitus instantly. Woke up from surgery with it gone and it was really loud. All started with a drop in Paroxetine that was too hasty. All at my doctor's recommendation.

Wish I knew then what I knew now Thanks for the encouraging words. I am 100% sure that there will be a cure for all types of tinnitus very soon.

My boys are amazing. They were born at 23+3 weeks and are 100% perfect. Practically unheard of to have 23 weeker twin boys make it through at all, but to turn out perfect is an insanely good outcome. I take great pride that I helped them through and it has made my life complete despite the tinnitus torture. I'm sure any Dad would have done the same.

Medication is indeed a slippery slope. I'm trying to withdraw from Paroxetine and Clonazepam at the same time. Down to 8 mg of Diazepam from 1 mg of Clonazepam (Ashton manual crossover) and down from 80 mg of Paroxetine to 8 mg now. I'm taking it so slow.

Sincerely hope things are good for you and you are making progress

 

[Uklawyer]

The surgery cured my pulsatile tinnitus instantly. Woke up from surgery with it gone and it was really loud. All started with a drop in Paroxetine that was too hasty

Paroxetine caused MEM and pulsatile tinnitus? And 8 mg of Diazepam doesn't help the spasming? Very tough - and unfortunate indeed.

I, for one, certainly would not have been able to endure what you did, but I get very tired at the drop of a hat. You should be very proud indeed. Let me know if you need advice on twins - I know from first hand experience that they can be be a bit complicated!

I think I am making progress. I am waiting for habituation or to get to a point where I can go to bed, not be aware of it and sleep throughout the night. Waking without hearing it would be nice too. I need to be almost at that point to be able to resume work due to my ME/CFS, so, in that sense, it's a different ball game for me. All very annoying.

I take it that that neurotologist is the one you have sent the info to on the South Korean results with nerve blockers. Perhaps I'll see you there!

 

[miwdob]

I am off Seroquel. I used it for sleep. 50 mg to 25 mg. It worked. In small doses it targets H1 and H2 receptors only and does not go near the dopamine receptors. I found Mirtazapine has a simlilar effect so I use that now. 7.5 mg Mirtazapine at bedtime. Seroquel definitely had a more pronounced hangover effect and its side effect risks are far higher than Mirtazapine's.

Paroxetine is the work of the devil and I was prescribed it in too high a dose by an aggressive old school psychiatrist. I had complete insomnia at the time and was not in sound mind due to extreme stress. I simply did not sleep for 20 nights or more in a row after 6 months of 3-4 hours max a night when my twins boys were in hospital fighting for their lives. A fight they thankfully won, but my incubator vigil cost me big time. I'd do it all over again though.

I regret the day I temporarily lost my ability to make informed decisions but was under pressure from family to get better fast. I have tapered from 80 mg to 8 mg Paroxetine but it no doubt was the cause of my extreme tinnitus.

Can you just clarify something for me: Are you saying that small doses of Mirtazapine don't touch the dopamine receptors or just that it helps you sleep the same way as Seroquel? And what about serotonin receptors? Maybe I'm missing something, but this is all pretty new to me.

Right now I'm on 25 mg Seroquel to help me sleep, but my sleep quality is pretty poor so I'm considering switching to 7.5 mg or 3.75 mg of Mirtazapine. But I don't want to risk taking anything that can make my tinnitus worse. I appreciate your help. Thanks!

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Can you just clarify something for me: Are you saying that small doses of Mirtazapine don't touch the dopamine receptors or just that it helps you sleep the same way as Seroquel? And what about serotonin receptors? Maybe I'm missing something, but this is all pretty new to me.

Right now I'm on 25 mg Seroquel to help me sleep, but my sleep quality is pretty poor so I'm considering switching to 7.5 mg or 3.75 mg of Mirtazapine. But I don't want to risk taking anything that can make my tinnitus worse. I appreciate your help. Thanks!

Hi, from my knowledge both have affinity for the histamine receptors at low doses. I found Mirtazapine better for sleep and it has a far safer side effect profile than Seroquel or any other second gen anti-psychotic. At higher doses both are less sedating. Basically you know as much as I do. I found the sleep hangover worse with Seroquel too.

As far as tinnitus is concerned, I think the consensus is that Mirtazapine is a better anti-depressant than SSRIs that are well known to cause or exacerbate tinnitus. However, if you search on here you will find people who have gotten tinnitus or worse tinnitus because of Mirtazapine. Our brains are all so similar yet so different.

Hope this helps

 

[miwdob]

Hi, from my knowledge both have affinity for the histamine receptors at low doses. I found Mirtazapine better for sleep and it has a far safer side effect profile than Seroquel or any other second gen anti-psychotic. At higher doses both are less sedating. Basically you know as much as I do. I found the sleep hangover worse with Seroquel too.

As far as tinnitus is concerned, I think the consensus is that Mirtazapine is a better anti-depressant than SSRIs that are well known to cause or exacerbate tinnitus. However, if you search on here you will find people who have gotten tinnitus or worse tinnitus because of Mirtazapine. Our brains are all so similar yet so different.

Hope this helps

It does, thanks. I don't think Serquel is a very good long-term solution for sleep, so I'm probably going to try switching to the lowest dose Mirtazapine possible, to see if it benefits me as well. I found this recent article that concludes that low-dose Mirtazapine has been shown to improve sleep quality and quantity:

https://www.sleepstation.org.uk/articles/medicines/mirtazapine/

Do you know if your are supposed to slowly taper off 7.5 mg as well as on higher doses? I guess 3.75 mg is the lowest dose possible.

 

[Padraigh Griffin]

Do you know if your are supposed to slowly taper off 7.5 mg as well as on higher doses? I guess 3.75 mg is the lowest dose possible.

I am always going to taper slowly. Trust me I learned the hard way that it is essential. Microtaper if possible. Hope you get sorted.

 

[DebInAustralia]

@Padraigh Griffin, what effect does Seroquel have on you? Seroquel is also supposed to be pretty strong. And Paroxetine can be tough going. It's hard with this shit.

I'm not sure what dose my friend took recently, but he said Seroquel gave him a great night sleep and his tinnitus was a lot lower the next day.