Head-Mounted Device for Motion Sickness Reduces Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Research News' started by nicole76, Aug 16, 2019.

    1. Chriscom

      Chriscom Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Northern Virginia USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely infection/ear stress after walking pneumonia
      So I had a very nice email chat with Sam Owen at Otolith. Within a few months, they plan to launch a usability study/dosage trial involving virtual reality, and someone like me with tinnitus but without vertigo could take part. At my request Sam placed me on a list and I'll be notified when they're ready to go. I didn't try Sam's patience too much with multiple questions but I imagine that type of person would be part of a control group, since the device is aimed at treating vertigo, after having been shown to prevent motion sickness.

      I'm not sure I'll participate because, reading into the mention of virtual reality, it sounds like part of this will be an effort to create temporary vertigo/dizziness as before. Maybe I'm being superstitious, but I may not want to risk inducing that permanently (or even temporarily!). I have several markers of Meniere's but not vertigo and based on what I've read, I should be thankful for that. But I'll decide after I learn more about the trial.

      So I haven't succeeded in arranging a visit just to test for tinnitus effects, which was the first request I made. However it's great to get direct communication from the company that they're aware of its effect on tinnitus patients, at least the handful they encountered (all/many, I don't know), even if they have no idea why. I'm sure they'll investigate this avenue further.
       
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    2. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
      @Chriscom good info! Thanks for the follow up.

      I would keep pushing to get a demo. What did Sam say when u asked if u could come into the office?
       
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    3. Chriscom

      Chriscom Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Northern Virginia USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely infection/ear stress after walking pneumonia
      Well, that's what I opened with--I "just" have tinnitus, think I could stop by for a test drive? Sam kindly responded with the info about the upcoming vertigo trial. Basically my question was clear and his answer was clear.

      I don't blame them, especially if it works at all for our condition--can you imagine what this office would be handling once everyone with T in the DMV (DC/Maryland/Virginia) got wind of this? And while it seems super-safe, if I were running a trial I wouldn't necessarily want to place this on non-vetted heads. Because IIRC the initial tinnitus discovery correctly, it turned up on subjects that had already been screened for that round of tests. Who knows if that device could have damaging effect on a hidden incipient aneurysm, or something covered in their subject screens.

      I salute anyone who wants to pursue it further, but considering as Sam put it "We have no clinical data on tinnitus, have any idea which forms of tinnitus we may help, and above all make no claims regarding the efficacy of our device with tinnitus," I don't blame them for focusing at this moment on the issue that their investors have actually invested in.
       
    4. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
      Sorry, forgot to follow up on this thread. Below is my continued conversation with Sam. It does seem like he is walking back his initial statement about being demoing the device, which is a little disappointing, (although maybe he would in person just not in writing?) But at least we have confirmation that it's the same device as the one from the linkedin article.

      -----

      The FDA has told us we are a Class II medical device. Legally this means we have serious and potentially criminal liabilities if we go around testing our device on patients without an ethics board approval or at the very least a clinician present. While we’re considered a non-significant risk device we are in a very real way interacting with an internal organ and don’t yet know what side-effects may occur (e.g. we had no idea we would reduce tinnitus, but imagine our liability if somehow we caused tinnitus).

      We’re about to start enrolling subjects in an IRB approved dosage trial for which tinnitus is not a disqualifying condition. Under IRB approval we’re legally protected then to administer our technology to anyone enrolled. If someone has tinnitus and reports it helps or doesn’t help their symptoms it’ll be recorded. And if someone tries our device and for whatever reason decides they don’t want to complete the whole protocol they’re allowed to stop at any point and for any reason.

      So until the FDA clears us for over-the-counter use, IN WRITING the only thing I can legally offer to patients asking to test our technology for certain conditions is the ability to be enrolled in a trial where their condition doesn’t disqualify them.

      Sam

      Sent from my iPhone
      cleardot.gif


      On Aug 26, 2019, at 7:32 PM, lcj wrote:

      Hi Sam, if these testers want, are they able to come to your office to try the device? Or do they need to sign up for a clinical trial first?


      Sent from my iPhone

      On Aug 24, 2019, at 11:22 AM, Samuel Owen <sam.owen@otolithlabs.com> wrote:

      It’s been slightly updated but not ready for commercial sale. We’ll be able to try multiple power levels in our office.

      Sent from my iPhone

      On Aug 24, 2019, at 2:04 AM, lcj wrote:

      No prob! I hope you get a lot of testers :)

      Btw is this the same device as the one that Spencer Salter found accidentally works on tinnitus patients (through his testing on motion sickness)? Or has it been updated?

      Sent from my iPhone
       
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    5. Lilah
      Bashful

      Lilah Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, Lupus
      I sent a brief email to Sam too and he responded that he will contact once they are ready to do the study. I have not decided if I will go through with it; I will need to ask him more questions when the time comes. After reading the response to @Chriscom 's email, I may not go with it.
       
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    6. Chriscom

      Chriscom Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Northern Virginia USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely infection/ear stress after walking pneumonia
      Thanks for the updates. Their approach sounds prudent, not to mention staying within the guidelines of the law and safety. Glad their research is on track to continue.
       
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    7. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      If they’re truthful and it reduced T and you could stop the trial anytime I’m not sure why you wouldn’t give it a shot. If it was a drug or surgery I would understand hesitation. If it’s a vibrating headband and some VR goggles I’d be inclined to go for it.
       
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    8. Lilah
      Bashful

      Lilah Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, Lupus
      I do have some dizziness/mild balance issues sometimes and I would not want to turn that into vertigo, similar to ChrisCom's reason. At the moment I do not know much about the device. I will definitely ask them a lot of questions once they contact me.
       
    9. PeterPan
      Nerdy

      PeterPan Member Advocate

      Location:
      Sydney
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Heat Exhaustion
      The thing about this technology is that the results are supposed to be instantaneous (unlike most treatments which can take months or even longer). It would be very easy to test the effectiveness, and the participant could provide feedback on the results immediately.

      "I have since offered the device to other tinnitus sufferers (image below). They all have a similar smile. Some took the device home to use in the quiet where tinnitus is perceived at its worst. Afterwards, they don’t want to give the device back."

      (my italics)
       
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    10. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
    11. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
       
    12. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      I’m not letting this device go, people need to know if it works or not? While looking at this device I was reading something about Ménière’s and it mentioned the Vestibular nerve attached to the cochlea when operating wrong can cause T. I never thought about that, could it be the link between visual snow and T? Could it be that people who lose hearing and don’t get T have a healthy Vestibular nerve? Is everyone looking at the wrong nerve for Tinnitus? Is that why they claim this device for motion sickness might do something? Is that why these bimodal devices zap all the circuits because both nerves are attached to the Cochlea? Or am I way off base?
       
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    13. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      I think you're on to something. Maybe you should email an expert like Dr. Shore on the matter.
       
    14. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      I lived too far away for the trial.
       
    15. Daniel Lion
      Ape-like

      Daniel Lion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      SE Asia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma, hearing loss
      Hey Piney,
      Where’s that “ trial”.
      Any news?
       
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    16. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      temporarily banished from this plane of existence.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      I assure you, my vibrator collection is both much more expensive and much fancier than my wife's.

      If you don't believe me just check my amazon history!
       
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    17. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      The Michigan trial I live too far away from. Otithlabs from Washington said they would contact me for the Vertigo device trial but I haven’t heard from them yet.
       
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    18. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
      Some interesting info: I saw an Audiogram today of a patient who had an acoustic neuroma. Medium level hearing loss and the hearing Nerve wasn’t transferring the right input, as per the audiologist. But he has no T. I just assumed the nerve played a role maybe not.Im more perplexed than ever.
       
    19. Pawel1
      Wishful

      Pawel1 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      January 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      After the hearing damage.. The hearing nerve sends information from the cochlea, to the rest of the auditory system, that some hair cells are dead. I am not sure, this information is being sent 24/7. What the rest of the auditory system will do with that information, is a completely different story. You may get T or you may not. My assumption, is that healthy people are less likely to get Tinnitus from permanent hearing damage, because their auditory system is more capable of healing itself, than of those unhealthy people.

      Yesterday, I have found information, that if your body lacks Magnesium, then any of your temporary Tinnitus spikes, could become permanent.

      All of this, could be the reason, why single acoustic traumas may cause more damage to the auditory system, than living for like 90 years with the same pair of ears.

      Some people get Tinnitus from permanent hearing damage, while other people just lose the ability to hear certain sounds. But, if you get a cochlear implant, then Tinnitus and hearing loss can be repaired.

      I hope I helped you at least a little bit :D
       
    20. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Just to add another data point, my tinnitus and hearing loss are bilateral and very symmetric.

      On VNG I have a severely impaired right vestibular nerve (basically non functional) and a normal left one.
       
    21. MattS
      Relaxed

      MattS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Power Tools
      As someone who knows the ins/outs of clinical trials, I can tell you that Sam is telling the truth. There is no possible way that he can let a patient just play around with the device under the auspices of a clinical "test". He's get closed down in a heartbeat, and then sued from every direction.

      Sadly, the FDA process will take years. But enrolling in a clinical trial is always a possibility. And seems awfully low risk.

      I'd head to DC for a bit, if I could get a crack at it!
       
    22. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      How does that sort of thing happen? I have TMJ as well (worse on my left which is also where my T is worse) and pretty bad neck from sitting in front of a computer constantly. I don't know how much that contributes to my problems or what can be done about it.
       
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    23. FGG

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I have seen so many specialists. At first it was vestibular neuritis, then vestibular migraines, then Meneire's, then Lyme, then viral, then back to migraines. This all started before my hearing loss and tinnitus which occurred after getting a toxic dose of Azithromycin (usually reversible, not in my case).

      My audiograms and tinnitis are identical bilaterally. Ototoxicity was the cause of that but I did have unilateral vestibular weakness beforehand and i can say it didn't seem to protect one ear over the other from tinnitus.
       
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    24. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
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    25. Chriscom

      Chriscom Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Location:
      Northern Virginia USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      May 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Likely infection/ear stress after walking pneumonia
      Nice sleuthing. I wonder if the mechanism is similar though--the cited studies are old. The first link above goes to a 1986 citation. The second one was published in 2018, but the ultrasound section has three citations pointing to 1986, 1987 and 2004 (the 1986 one may be the same, and at least one researcher is named in both '86 and '87). It's absolutely possible that early clues get abandoned then successfully revived later. But I'd guess they turned into dead ends.
       
    26. Bob90
      Spooky

      Bob90 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Overexposure to loud music
      Hi @Pawel1 , could you share where you saw that information? My T has been (on average, not constant) louder this week or so. It's done this before and settled down, but anything I can do to prevent it being permanent I want to do. Thanks.
       
    27. lcj

      lcj Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      medication
    28. Piney

      Piney Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      March 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shingles virus
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    29. Jeremy Weate
      English

      Jeremy Weate Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2007
      I wonder if Otolith has submitted any patents for this...
       
    30. ChrisBoyMonkey

      ChrisBoyMonkey Member Podcast Patron

      Location:
      CA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      U.S. Army/Field Artillery Veteran
      Good idea... we can make our own specifically for tinnitus and patent it for that!

      Who here knows how to do that kind of engineering?
       

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