Tinnitus Began First Week of June 2020 After Wim Hof Breathing

The monaural tones just means playing in one ear at a time. I don’t know much about the isochoric but I guess it just means at the same volume or tone.

I have been thinking that perhaps some of these forms of TRT aren’t actually retraining our brains to phase out the tinnitus but actually having an effect on the ANS. The reason I believe this is that I have felt “different” after trying some of these TRTs and YouTube videos. I can’t explain it and it’s not a bad feeling but something different. I think what happened to Mr C is maybe he activated his sympathetic response instead and it was overwhelming since we are sensitive or sympathetic dominant, at least at the moment.

It would also make sense why something like David Case’s Tinnitus Mix, that I posted about previously, would alleviate tinnitus symptoms as well as other maladies, as claimed by David. Maybe his Tinnitus Mix stimulates the vagus nerve and that’s why you need specific earphones for it to work.

After several hours of reading about vagal tone and VNS, etc. I believe that the medical world is just starting to understand how the ANS works and how we can tap into it. It starts to open your eyes to why things like meditation, grounding, nature, etc. have positive effects on the body and immune system. I would’ve rather not found out this way, but it’s definitely opening my eyes to a world I had no idea about.

 

Yeah, I've tried a little of each of those. But the one that seems the most effective for me is the high pitched tones. So currently I'm mostly doing the high pitched ones. In particular, my current go-to is the 4 hour video that Lukee provided.

4 Hours of High Pitched Tinnitus...

I agree with Lukee's definition of 'isochoric'. It looks like there's more technical stuff to it and it branches out into different fields, but for our application "same volume or tone" seems to suffice.

I'm also familiarizing with the similar sounding term 'isochronic', which are on that YouTube channel as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isochronic_tones

Good!

 

Interesting ideas. Yeah, it seems hard to explain or understand how exactly this therapy works. I like the way one person described it in the comments, "it's like a tune-up for your ears". Maybe another good name for it could be "re-tuning".

I feel unexplainably different afterwards too. A peace? Maybe what some of the feeling is, is our bodies adjusting to normalcy again.

I wonder it it's possible to overdo this sound therapy. Is it completely harmless to listen to these sounds for long periods of time? I haven't heard anything to suggest anything like that.
On that same thought, I wonder what the effects of sound therapy has on healthy persons with no hearing issues. Would it have no effect on them? Would it have a negative effect on them? Or maybe it would further "fine-tune" that person's already healthy hearing or even other parts of their body?

Yeah, very interesting. And in reference to the questions I posed above: what were some of these other maladies that he spoke of? I must've missed that part.

I'm smelling what you're cooking.

 

I think this video has been working for me. My tones are changing and doing different things the more I listen to it. I haven’t done extensive listening but I feel like it is helping.

Has anyone else experienced tighter jaw muscles since all this started? I find myself waking up with a tight jaw even though I have been told I grind my teeth for years. Given I can modulate the sound by opening my jaw all the way, I’m wondering if I’ve given myself or exacerbated TMJ through WHM. I read somewhere that it’s not uncommon to strain jaw and neck muscles when doing intense breathing exercises due to the intensity but also the sympathetic response triggering tension.

 

That's amazing! It really does confirm what we've all been researching here! Is there any chance you can speak with this doctor and get her assessment, and more importantly ask her if she could prescribe a proper treatment?

I too am hopeful that we can rebalance our ANS. Absolutely.

 

Yes, the left side of my neck has been very tight for months. Almost as if it's sprained. I've gotten chiropractic adjustments and it gets better after, but then it comes back. If I turn my head towards the right that's when I feel the tightness in the left side of my neck. It seems to originate in the occipital region, a few inches to the right of my left ear.

What audio files have you guys tried that have been helpful? I did try a high pitched one a few months ago which I found on YouTube and I didn't react well to it. I felt like my heart rate was speeding up and I felt a bit nauseous; same feeling I got after listening to the AudioNotch file at around 10,000 Hz.

What did work ok for me this morning was deep meditation. When I did the breathing, I breathed out at twice the pace of my inhales in order to initiate a parasympathetic response. I tried this quiet meditation for about 20 mins and it felt really good afterward.

@Lukee, I'm really curious about what you can find out from your friend's doctor.

Ahh, I see it.. disregard my question about which audio files you're listening to. It's the one posted above.

Regarding your TMJ, yes, my jaw did feel a bit tight right after I got the tinnitus. It went away though after a while. I'm trying to remember how long it took. Maybe a few weeks or a month?

 

She isn’t my friend’s doctor but someone he reached out to on my behalf. Sorry for the confusion. I am booking an appointment for 1 hour consult with her on Thursday. She is semi-famous especially in Silicon Valley. I will obviously post a follow up.

More and more I’m starting to think we have a sort of TMJ issue. Perhaps the intense breathing and sympathetic response locked up some of our muscles and is what’s causing this whole fiasco. TMJ can, and commonly does, cause ear fullness and is often mistaken for ETD.

There seems to be a way to treat or at least test the TMJ theory through muscle relaxers:

Treatment of tinnitus with cyclobenzaprine: an open-label study

I might try and get a script to try for a couple weeks and see if there is any improvement. I just find it too coincidental that all of a sudden my jaw and temples are sore to the touch almost. I find myself clenching very other and I’m sure that is happening while I sleep as well. Another strange thing that has happened to me is the tinnitus has become prevalent in my left ear. It used to be central but I “feel” it more in my left ear even though I can kind of hear it from both ears. Also, I can modulate it ever so slightly by opening my jaw all the way. This gives me some hope.

 

I have never heard of Wim Hof breathing before. Right when my tinnitus started I had a kidney MRI. During that MRI I had to keep taking deep breaths, hold it, then exhale. It was really hard and I was feeling unwell doing it in the MRI machine. I was really short of breath but before I knew it, I had to take another deep breath and hold.

Does this sound similar to Wim Hof?

 

Yes and no. With Wim Hof you basically hyperventilate, then do breath holds. Your internal alarms are all messed up so I believe it’s easier to overdo the holds.

In your case, it’s possible the breath holds caused the same tinnitus especially if you were straining and sending your blood pressure up. The other possibility is that that MRI was really loud and caused tinnitus that way. Many people on these forums are dead afraid of having an MRI for chance that they further exacerbate their tinnitus.

Were you wearing hearing protection?

EDIT:

I just wanted to add a couple points. I am by no means a doctor or an expert on tinnitus or anything to do with the ears. I read some of your posts and see some things that I find familiar to this brutal disease.

If you have read through this thread you will see that many of us do/have suffered from some form of hyperacusis or at least a decreased tolerance to loud noises. At no point was it ever painful for me but for a few days about a week after onset, I was jumpy and bothered by any loud noise. Today, just over a month later it rarely bothers me to hear loud noises.

I also read you had head pressure and headaches. Did this start after your MRI? I have had head pressure that generally seems to be resolving though it gets better then comes back again. Same with my ET issues, for a few days there were completely gone then they came back as bad as they were when it first started. Did the ear fullness happen before or after your tinnitus?

Another thing I noticed is that you suffer from RA and high blood pressure. The reason I feel this might be relevant is we have been talking about the sympathetic nervous system (SNS) extensively and we believe that WHM had something to do with activating this perpetually and causing the tinnitus. You may not be aware but RA has been linked to low vagal tone, SNS in overdrive basically:

The Link Between Autonomic Nervous System and Rheumatoid Arthritis: From Bench to Bedside

You also mentioned anxiety meds. Was this before or after the onset of tinnitus? Once again, anxiety is linked to hyperactive SNS.

I don’t want to pretend that this is the cause of everything that ails you but SNS problems seem to be involved in a whole host of health conditions. Do you have tight neck and/or jaw muscles? Do you find yourself clenching your teeth these days or prior to tinnitus?

I posted earlier on a document that shows many ways to increase your vagal tone. I think worst case is you try it out and there is no improvement but you might find that increasing your vagal tone may very well help your tinnitus and possibly your RA and anxiety.

You mentioned Prednisone. You only took a two day course... why only two days? It’s usually prescribed for at least 10 days for tinnitus and ETD. Did you feel that your tinnitus got worse after the Prednisone? What about your ET pressure, did it resolve?

I have been fortunate to have relatively mild tinnitus but it still weighs on me heavily. More than the tinnitus is the ET problems and head pressure which I’m hoping will resolve over time like @MrC6688. Good luck and please remain calm, you WILL get better even if it’s never 100% like you were. You have a family that supports you and needs you. Take some time to meditate and practice the slow breathing.

 

I have been reading about Cyclobenzaprine and it seems like there are quite a few examples of remission when not dealing with noise-induced tinnitus. As a matter of fact, this example has fullness and even slight hearing loss.

I am seeing an ENT tomorrow and will ask about it.

http://medcraveonline.com/JOENTR/JOENTR-10-00335.pdf

 

I don't think I have any TMJ issues. None that I can notice anyway. What I have been doing though is jaw exercising, stretching, and massaging along with my head/neck exercising.

I'm interested to hear what your ENT says about the muscle relaxers.

 

Dead end with the ENT. He scoped me and checked everything out. Everything came back basically perfect. Wouldn’t prescribe Prednisone or the Cyclobenzaprine and said that any OTC muscle relaxer would work the same. I feel like you really need an ENT or neurologist who has come across tinnitus that has been successfully treated.

It seems that Europe and even South America is willing to try more to advert long term tinnitus than North America. I will be talking to my GP to see if he will prescribe the Cyclobenzaprine.

I have read quite a few times now that TMJ can happen without any real symptoms. I didn’t have any issues prior to this but maybe something happened during WHM that is affecting our muscles in neck and jaw.

 

Mr. C,

You said you had some improvement with Craniosacral Therapy. How long or how many sessions did you have?

I've been doing a little research on it and it seems in essence to be a sort of gentle massage/pressure to areas of the head, neck, and sacrum. Is that your take on it?

Do you think that similar results can be achieved through self-administration as with a therapist? I think I'm already doing a type of improvised CT in my routine. Did your therapist do any type of movements around your sacrum?

 

That's good at least.

Not surprising. Doctors are usually so tight when comes to any type of pain, sleep, or muscle relaxer medication. Any OTC muscle relaxer would work the same as Cyclobenzaprine? Is he/she serious? I'm not familiar with Cyclobenzaprine, but I think I can make an educated and accurate guess that it's much more potent/effective than any OTC muscle relaxer.

From the doctors I've seen so far, I think you're probably right about that.

I'll take that under advisement and keep an eye on it.

 

Going back to Wim's book, he states:

"We have found that in the vast majority of cases, the ringing disappears with repeated breathing practice."

Could that be a solution? I think someone mentioned this somewhere in this thread too. Not something we're all jumping at the chance to try, eh?

Or more like, something we're not even thinking about trying. Is that better?

 

Wait, so Wim is aware his technique may cause ringing? Maybe I have the context wrong?

 

Hey Renfrey, I suggested it earlier on but as you say, I don’t think anyone is chomping at the bit to try it. I just thought that continual practice of the exercises might clear the tinnitus and fullness or at least make tinnitus less noticeable but I don’t think it’s a chance I’d be willing to take right now. Maybe if Wim got involved and said this was a common occurrence and has seen improvement from other students then I would think about it.

I wasn’t aware the Wim actually acknowledges the tinnitus. Good to know that at least somewhere it’s written.

 

Lukee and Cernuto,

Yes, Wim is aware and acknowledges the tinnitus. He has a page written about it in his book. I posted it on pg. 4 of this thread, but here it is again.

Here's what Wim says when this question is posed:

My ears are ringing after the breathing practice - is this normal?

This effect is known as "tinnitus", a condition with a wide range of causes and manifestations.

For some people, practicing the WHM either induces or exacerbates the ringing, while for others it changes the pitch. Conversely, those dealing with chronic tinnitus often find relief from its concomitant anxiety in the calming effect of the breathing techniques.

The connection between tinnitus and the WHM has various possible causes. Medical research shows a direct link between pulsatile tinnitus and anemia, which the WHM may ameliorate through the elevated oxygen intake. The breathing exercises also increase neural activity in the auditory brainstem, where the brain processes sounds, possibly causing auditory nerve cells to become over-excited.

The scientific community continues to grapple with the particulars of tinnitus, but has established that the phenomenon itself is harmless. We have found that in the vast majority of cases, the ringing disappears with repeated breathing practice. If you find that, after several weeks, the noise persists or intensifies, some underlying physiological condition may be at play, in which case we recommend you consult a medical professional.​

 

Wow. This is basically what they sent me in an email. The last couple of sentences.

I don’t know if anyone brave/stupid enough to try but at the same time I have read countless stories of people who continued on and complained of tinnitus while practicing WHM regularly.

 

Wim believes tinnitus is a condition that may be fixed by a medical professional. Maybe someone should direct him to this board?

 

Not sure exactly what you mean. You don't know if anyone's brave/stupid enough to try.

But then you say you have read stories of people (like us?) who have continued on with the WHM breathing with no improvement?

Or are you talking about people who experience the temporary ringing only when doing the exercises?

 

Yeah, maybe if this thread keeps growing and enough stink is raised, he'll eventually make his way over here.

 

I don’t know if any of us are willing to try to continue with WHM is case we worsen our condition.

Both. Obviously there are a lot of people who get it temporarily but I have read a few posts about people getting it chronically but not being bothered by it. I don’t know how serious their tinnitus was to start, maybe just very mild. Maybe they are able to cope with the tinnitus a lot easier because it doesn’t bother them. But my point was that maybe pushing through might make the tinnitus or ear pressure less invasive.

 

Right, none of us seem to be willing to try.

So these people who get it chronically, these are the same people who are continuing with the WHM breathing? Where have you read about this? Sorry if I sound annoyingly redundant. Just trying to get a clearer grasp of what you're saying.

It seems like you're at least thinking about pushing through and giving it a shot?

 

LOL. If maybe my ears didn’t have fullness and pressure and it was only tinnitus bothering me I would MAYBE consider to push through. As I sit today, not a chance.

I have read it on a bunch of Reddit threads where a lot of the posters claim they have tinnitus but say it doesn’t really bother them and they continue to practice WHM daily. I have read at least 10-15 posts where people have mentioned it.

 

Hey @Renfrey, yes I had tried Craniosacral Therapy and honestly, I might go back to it. I had about 6 sessions between September-November of last year for 1 hour a piece. She worked my sacram, upper neck, head (she worked two pressure points at the base of my skull which felt awesome), spinal column, chest, and legs. The work she did to the back of my head and upper back felt amazing during the session. Speaking of that, when you get done with a session your body is so completely relaxed it's almost as if you're stoned, lol. Sorry to use that analogy but that's the only thing I can think of. It's a very calm, mind and body relaxation type of feeling. Of course, you still have your wits but your entire body is put into such a state of deep relaxation that you feel that way for about 1-2 days.

To start off the session, the therapist would basically do a scan of my body starting with the my head and upper torso, then move to my chest area, lower back, and legs. I feel like most of the adjusting was done around my neck and upper back area. I would recommend CST and after all of our theorizing I might ask her if she can tap into the parasympathetic and use that to bring down the heightened sympathetic response. This time around, I'm very curious to see what she can do.

Regarding my theory on CST, I think it's much more than massage. I would compare it to almost a cross between gentle massage / energy work. If you've ever tried tai chi or reiki, it's more along those lines than massage. I would encourage you to give it a shot and see what kind of results you receive! I am definitely going to give it another shot with this new information we've been theorizing over the past few weeks.

As for self-administration, I'm sure you could do it if you learned how to give CST. Perhaps YouTube has a few good videos we can research? That's a good question.

By the way, has anyone ever tried Flonase (Fluticasone Propionate)? My ENT gave it to me and asked me to use to for the ears not popping but I've yet to try it because the side effects I'm reading about online are freaking me out a bit. The side effects I read included rapid heart beat, dizziness, tinnitus, anxiety. I don't want to experience rapid heart beats and I sure don't want to experience an increase in tinnitus. If anyone's ever used it please let me know.

Thanks!

 

My take on Wim's explanations on his breathing method & tinnitus...

The breathing exercises also increase neural activity in the auditory brainstem, where the brain processes sounds, possibly causing auditory nerve cells to become over-excited. -> Yes, I agree. And this is what we've all been theorizing for the past few weeks.

The scientific community continues to grapple with the particulars of tinnitus, but has established that the phenomenon itself is harmless. -> More like the scientific community either has no answer for it because it's easier for medical doctors to prescribe steroids and tell people to just deal with it, or Wim is completely bullsh*tting here with that assertion. No one enjoys dealing with tinnitus and it can cause people anxiety and depression, neither of which are harmless.

We have found that in the vast majority of cases, the ringing disappears with repeated breathing practice. -> Obviously for many the tinnitus persists. How about addressing those cases too?

If you find that, after several weeks, the noise persists or intensifies, some underlying physiological condition may be at play, in which case we recommend you consult a medical professional. -> Cop out statement.

 

That's it. Enough of a stink has to be raised. If people just accept it, then nothing will happen. People need to raise a stink.

 

After I got tinnitus, I've decided to try WHM again about three weeks later. The pressure and the fullness were subsiding so I thought I'll give it a try. After the 3rd or 4th round during the breath retention which I did not force, I've felt strange physical feelings in my ears and at one point I had a sharp pain for a second, so I stopped immediately. The pressure and the fullness came back after this.

So from my experience I wouldn't recommend doing it, although I'm really curious what would happen. But I guess none of us wants to risk it.

Come to think of it, @Ross Duncan and @Adam Sutcliffe wrote they will keep doing it. If you guys read this, can you please write us about you experiences?

 

Ditto that. Just to throw out there: what about doing the WHM with much shorter breath holds?

That sounds incredible. They already have tinnitus, but they're doing breath holds which clearly intensify it at least temporarily. Amazing.