Benzos and Tinnitus

I tapered down VERY slowly. My doctor told me to take as long as I needed to do it. My T went nuts the last few days. Now I'm off the stuff and my T is no better, no worse.

 

Some say that the addictivenes is more to physiological factors. But also believe that there been studies showing chemical changes int the brain. They all go back once stop taking the drug but it might take some time. In the end i believe this is highly individual. For example i have been drinking 2-3 glass of wine 3-4 evenings a week all my adult life. During the summer i drink pretty much every night. Never liked to get drunk or abused in anyway. Also stop using alcohol for a month every year so that my body can rest.

 

I wonder if the withdrawal issue with Benzos is really the classic physical withdrawal symptoms that we always associate with drugs and alcohol. I know that there is also the psychological portion of the withdrawal, but that isn't really dangerous (just difficult). I think that the reason you don't have withdrawal from alcohol is, because you don't drink enough to have it in your system 24/7. I mean that only the worst alcoholics have to be detoxed (receive professional with the withdrawal). I always thought the same was true for drugs?

 

Maybe the bodies builds up something to metabolize the drug faster. When you don´t take the drug, whet ever that is metabolizing it increases and it´s taking some time to adjust. Here is how it works for me. When i start to take Zopiclone for sleeping it works fine for a couple of week, Then it works ok for another 1-2 weeks. After that it´s doing more harm than good because i am just getting 4-5 hours of sleep. Starting to wake up around 4am (when the drug is getting to low). Just taking half the dose 3,75mg. Suppose that i have an option to increase but instead i choose to stop. When i stop the first night i terrible, the next night is till bad but the third night is actually better than with the drug. From now on I will not take it for more then 2-3 days in a row and maximum a few times per month. That way i believe i will get the most out of the drug.

 

So does anyone have any input on how benzos influence tinnitus? I dont mean causing it, i mean once you have tinnitus. I remember reading some post about it that benzos could make tinnitus worse due to the way it interacts with gaba/glutamate.

Im especially interested in how benzos might make the influence is heavy MSG loaded foods much worse. I have noticed multiple occasions where food with tons of MSG (chinese food for instance) brought on terrible spikes. I wonder if thats because benzos sort of fuel that.

 

Now that is very interesting. I too ate Chinese food (MSG) a couple of days ago and my "T" spiked. I don't know of any connection, but you may be on to something?

That is really helpful information and I think, a good common sense approach to the use (my use) of Benzos to help me sleep.
However, I still have not seen a good response to the question:
How does one properly withdraw from a dose of 0.5 mg/day of Alprazolam. I know it may not be fun, but is it dangerous to abruptly stop such a small does?

 

I realised my sentence was a bit off I meant ... "im especially interested in how benzos make the influence of heavy MSG loaded foods much worse". Since those foods are full of glutamate, and im sure i read someplace that glutamate has some interaction with gaba/benzos.

 

Don't use benzos. I am in benzo hell trying to taper. Valium is the one to be on for taper. See Aston Method.
My anxiety is off the charts when i don't have enough in my system.
Then T spikes.
All benzos make for a bad long term solution.
I wish I knew about this forum before I took docs perscriptions

 

It isn't helpful to simply say: "don't use benzos"
It can be helpful to more fully explain your dosage and circumstances relative to their use. People need to educate themselves and then make a decision with regard to what is best for them. With your experience you can be helpful if you choose.
I think that it is correct to say that Benzos are a band-aid. You certainly should remove it at some point, but that is a matter of individual choice.
Again I say, educate people and let them choose. Don't tell people what they should or shouldn't do!

 

Benzos were a good short term solution for me in the beginning stages of t. But not such a good long term solution.
Tolerance can be reached in weeks or months, which imitates withdrawal. Relating to questions above, withdrawal happens because our natural gaba is downregulated by the use of benzos which attach to our gaba receptors. Gaba is the inhibitory response to the excitatory neurons overfiring that have been connected to the mechanism of t. Consequently, stopping a benzo cold turkey can worsen or can often cause t. Slow tapers are always advised. I am doing a liquid titration taper of lorazepam. Putting my original dose in 100ml of water, letting it dissolve, shaking it, then taking 5 percent out every two weeks or so, and drinking the rest. Therefore first couple weeks of cutting, drank 95 percent of the solution, second two weeks of cutting, drank 90 percent of the solution and so forth.
Lots more info on benzos and tapers can be found on the Ashton Manual and Benzobuddies sites online.

 

so do you take it all in 1 go, or do you drink small sips all days?

 

To taper:
I pour 100ml of water in a measuring cylinder. Then pour the water into a covered jar. Drop my full dose in. Let it dissolve (1 hour plus). Shake and stir the solution. Then each day for the first two weeks, I take out with an oral syringe 5ml of water (5 percent), and throw it away.. I drink the rest (95ml). Next two weeks, I take out 10ml and drink the rest, and so forth.
Lots of information out there on benzos and benzo withdrawal and tapers. Tinnitus is one of the main protracted withdrawal symptoms of benzos. Check out the above sites I quoted online.

 

But wouldnt it be better for the average volume of 'benzo' in your system to drink it in several sips during the day instead all of it in the morning?

 

I've been taking klonopin at nite .5mg every other nite ...its a tough call I get quite days following day of klonopin use and then second day T gets louder sometimes I go 2 or 3 days without Klonopin and then take it. I don't know we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't...I guess its all about the quality of life for now I choose to take it and get couple quite days a week. Does anybody else use Klonopin this way?

 

It sounds like you are taking an extreme approach to tapering off of Benzos. I guess that I wonder if such an extreme approach is really necessary? It certainly makes sense that it will work to reduce and/or eliminate withdrawal symptoms, so I guess it is a matter of preference. Is it factual to say that stopping the use of benzos causes and/or aggravates "T" or is that just an assumption?
I am currently down-dosing off of Xanax the old fashion way! I already have "T" that is pretty darn loud, so I am not sure how your method would help me and why I would want to do it? I am down to less than 0.125 mg/day and feeling pretty good. I can't divide the pill into a smaller size than that.

 

@David J what is the old fashioned way? I currently use about 0.5mg to 0.75mg a day. Im planning on just lowering it steadily by using less pills, or half pills a day.

 

That IS the old fashion way. I went from 0.5 mg to 0.25 by breaking the pill in half. Then I used a pill cutter to quarter it to 0.125 mg. I am using a razor blade to cut it into a 1/8th portion (0.0625 mg), but it is so small it isn't even close to a precise dose. I started-out down-dosing pretty quickly from 0.25 mg to zero, but couldn't sleep and didn't feel well, so I went back to 0.25 for a couple of days and then to 0.125. Since taking it slow it is going really well. I feel very good so far. No impact on my "T". It was loud when I started and it is still loud. No change.

 

Not sure if you are addressing your comment to me. The liquid taper worked better for me because of the smaller and more precise cuts, rather than dry cuts. Everyone is different. Stopping benzos cold turkey is not recommended. The other details you ask re factual or assumptions, please look up those sites I referred to. Particularly the Ashton Manual online.

 

Yes, it was directed toward you. I checked-out the references you mentioned and found the Ashton Manual to be quite impressive. The fact that it is based upon work with real people is what makes it so credible to me. Not just scientific assumptions based upon theory. Unfortunately, so much of the info that is often passed-on by people is something that they read on-line or somewhere else from questionable sources. So I tend to be a little cynical.
After trying to do a dry taper, I can understand the benefits of the liquid taper. I mean that I can see the precision benefit in it as well as the benefit from slow speed of the taper. The down-dosing I am doing is not nearly as gradual, but it has been working for me without any severe withdrawal effects.
Withdrawing from Alprazolam has been quite an education for me.

 

How much were you taking at the peak @David J ?

 

I was taking 1.o mg/day (at bedtime). I am not sure how long I took them, but it was at least 12 years. I've heard that you can abuse them, but I never did. They just put me to sleep.

 

hi all..suffering from tinnitus for 5 years now..very frustrating....im on soma 350mgs once or twice a day for spasms and tinnitus..helps a little but not as much as id like..thinking about going on a benzo..valium..xanax..but im concerned about the benzos making the tinnitus worse..while im taking them..or when i stop..any suggestions would be appreciated..chris

 

Benzos absolutely cause tinnitus, either as a result of long-term use or a result of discontinuation, and having spent a lot of time interacting with other benzo users on forums over the years, I think tinnitus is a very common withdrawal effect.

My own tinnitus is definitely more significant now than it was before I used benzos for an extended period of time. Whether that's the result of benzo use or would have happened anyway is impossible to say.

Going too fast off the drug is a surefire way to get tinnitus and lots of even worse problems; after I completely failed a rapid taper, I spent a long time tapering off, and it was still miserable (it was literally the hardest thing I ever did in my life). I know for a fact that valium "cures" my tinnitus and that if I started taking 6-8mg a day again my ringing would go away completely, but I also remember that tinnitus was actually the least of my problems when I was really messed up with benzos, so there's just no way that tradeoff is worth it for me.

The crazy thing is how unaware I was of how messed up I was at the time. It was obvious to me that I was having GI problems and weird sleep problems and weird neurological problems that I hadn't had before benzos, but I was also in this completely alien headspace, all my underlaying anxiety had gotten much worse, and I had no idea because being on strong drugs for a period of time robs you of your ability to understand "self" vs "drug".

 

This is the best explanation I've found anywhere of how benzos interact with tinnitus. Note that this is written for people trying to get off benzos, so it's approaching it from the angle of "how does benzo withdrawal cause tinnitus?" The question of how benzos interact with existing tinnitus is probably even more complex, but many of the same principles will still apply:
http://www.benzobuddies.org/forum/index.php?topic=106121.0

 

I've taken Xanax for over 15 months--.50 mg, 3 times a day. I recently cut it to 2 times a day just to see if I could. No problem. Xanax helped me to keep my sanity while I habituated. I'm not completely habituated but I am so much better than before. I can actually live with the noise--yes, sometimes it's frustrating but mostly, I don't care. I have moderate tinnitus. I work everyday, continue to go out with friends and family. I had concerns about Xanax, who wouldn't when you've never taken any drugs--but my PCP assured me that if I only took it as prescribed then I wouldn't have a problem. I have not developed a tolerance or addiction. It has helped me tremendously. I'm not advocating that anyone take Xanax, I'm just sharing my experience. I also meditate and practice relaxation exercises --I'm sure that helps too.

 

Good to be having this conversation, and I have interacted with many of you on this topic before. Oddly enough, I suddenly seem to be having problems over the last week or two. I have been taking Xanax for about 18 months. I never took more than a total of 1.5 mg in a 24 hour period, spread out over three doses daily plus one at night. I started cutting back awhile ago and now take .25 mg during the day only as needed, which is very, very rarely. I go for weeks without a single day time pill.

I kept my night time dose at .5mg. Then i cut back to .25 mg in the last month or two, with no problems. But now I am trying to sleep even one night completely without it -- and find I wake up after a few hours of falling asleep and quickly spiral into anxiety. I can't decide if its the absence of the Xanax, or that I start fretting over what I will do without a full night's sleep, or both. I have been motivated to cut out the Xanax by my psychiatrist, last month, telling me he didn't really want to write me a prescription for it any more. I agreed and thought cutting it out would not be hard, given my day time success. But I seem to be struggling.

Anyone else here have night time anxiety? It's pretty miserable. And now its starting to spark day time anxiety, as I start fretting about the night ahead, what I'll do when my prescription runs out, etc. Although I have not given in and taken day time meds. But I seem to do much better shutting down day time anxiety with therapy techniques and other natural methods than I do at night. Also, during these night time spells, my tinnitus is screaming loud, which makes it worse.

Sigh. Thanks for listening. I have thought about posting on this but was just too bummed about it to put it out there. I really have made good progress since my tinnitus onset. Now feel like I have taken two steps back.

 

Yeah. I tapered off of Xanax after 15 years of use. I didn't suffer any ill effects except difficulty sleeping. It had absolutely no effect on my "T" and I didn't suffer any anxiety after quitting. I did taper off of it slowly over a week and a half. I originally took it to help me sleep, so it is no surprise I continue to have trouble sleeping. I really don't understand and have not experienced any of the issues I've read about with Xanax. Perhaps it is, because I only took a low dose and never abused them. I'll tell ya, I'd much rather take Xanax to help me sleep than ambien or lunesta. I tried a half of ambien one night and I felt drugged for two days. That is nasty stuff.
Xanax is a tried and true drug that is pretty darn effective in helping you to relax and for relief of anxiety. I think it is frequently prescribed because it is so safe. That is at least, in a low dose.

 

@LadyDi --I've had night time anxiety most of my adult life. For some reason I'm really afraid of not getting enough sleep to get through the day...then I had anxiety all the time. I had a period of insomnia before the onset of T and it was a nightmare. My PCP has said that I may have to take Xanax or something like it the rest of my life as my brain doesn't make the chemicals that I need anymore. I never take more than 1.5 mg a day--in three doses. Like I said, I've cut out my afternoon dose but I always take the .5 dose at night. I've had days when I've forgotten two doses with no problems. If you are really worried about when your prescription runs out, talk to your psychiatrist or your primary care physician, My doc is so compassionate--I couldn't have gotten through these past 15 1/ months without him.

 

Thanks so much, @Kathi. Helps to know someone has walked in my shows. I also feel like my body has lost the ability to sleep naturally.

 

I also had doctors tell me I was on an "inconsequential" dose of benzos, that it was "safe" and that I "needed to be on it", and none of those things turned out to be true, which is one reason I've gotten a little skeptical of certain things. There's no way to know, though - I certainly know people who came off higher doses of benzos than I did after similar time frames and did not have nearly the trouble I did getting off of them. Genetics is probably a big factor.

For what it's worth, I had bad insomnia when I was a teenager. Benzos solved that for a long time, but after ~a decade I had worse problems. When I was dependent on benzos, and then while I was coming off of them, my sleep was really really bad - but it all got better. I just slept for 8 hours without waking up, with no fan/whitenoise/etc. So, these things can improve on their own without drugs, at least for some people, even after a decade or more of problems.

It's worth noting that over time, benzos can cause more severe sleep issues:

I'm not encouraging anyone to not or to stop taking benzos; it's a personal decision and the risk/reward profile is also based on personal factors. I do encourage people to do their homework and get second opinions about things, though. I've had one doctor tell me that 2mg of Klonopin or Xanax is "not that much", and I've had other doctors call that "a high dose which I would never prescribe for more than a couple weeks". So, the idea that there's much medical consensus on this is questionable.