Chocolate/Cacao and Tinnitus

Everybody with loud tinnitus would prefer it to be less loud. But that's not the issue - that's common sense.

The issue is that if you focus your efforts on trying to lower the volume of your tinnitus and/or trying to avoid making it louder - if that is your battleground - then you have chosen a battle you will lose.

You can hear your tinnitus over trains. So can I. I can even hear my tinnitus while riding in the Maid of the Mist boat at the foot of Niagara Falls.

The difference is that you care, but I do not. Getting to a point where you just do not care how loud your tinnitus is, now that is a battle you can win.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

I do need to stop caring...It's just so hard especially when it go crazy from certain sounds? Its like it interacts with noise?

 

I can not eat chocolate in larger quantity because it does cause spike, but what is worse it sugar and fat because they raise lvl of insulin in body that causes spike, and chocolate is mostly 20-30% cacao and rest is butter, so it is normal to get pain.

Anyway chocolate is stimulant. Sugar is over insulin stimulant. Additives are too. Some fruits like strawberry but I am not sure in that one. There is a lot of thing that trigger t. YOu will in time find out and be careful, eat them only when YOU want to give your soul pleasure and after it get pain, but as said we are as friend said "defective" and our systems don't work normal. So off course you will be careful about your diet.

 

Oh good grief...Hey Danny, it is REAL if you have reactive tinnitus to want to not have more tinnitus volume! In fact it is dumb in my opinion to pretend that all is OK, ignore warning signs, and then just have more, potentially permanent increases in tinnitus volume. Ask me! I have had three > volume levels over initial volume, and practice does not make it easier to bear, just more restrictive.
I do not believe that it is macho or wise to keep getting kicked in the kidneys, which is what reactive T is like. After a while you will damage your kidneys to a point where they are royally screwed and your quality of life will suck. With reference to this analogy, I believe that many people have "reactive T" initially, upon first getting T (or a new volume level), even if that reactivity lasts only a few days. Just remember how sensitized and freaked nearly all of us are at onset?! It is not all just 'emotional' IMHO.

Each time I get zapped by unexpected sound that I do not "catch" in time, it almost knocks me flat...and I have had years and years and years of practice. If anyone believes that T volume can not go up with stupid exposure to sound, or things that activate your T to higher levels (like say "ototoxic meds or substances"), they are just wrong. Period.
I suggest not aggravating your T in any way and it will probably come down slowly, and you will habituate to it in due course, and you can probably enjoy most things again. The less reactive, and the less loud your T is, the easier it is to habituate to.

In the end you are your best judge of what is good for you or not. I would say that if something "spikes" your T it is NOT good for you, no matter if it comes in pink pajamas and a Panama hat.

Good luck. Zimichael

 

You can not stop caring about your T just because you want to. I cannot stop loving my son because that is the solution to something if I love him I just do because I feel that. But with T you can take your mind of it more and more eventualy.
It's a proces you will go through. It's like somebody says to you....don't think about your T ...you will think about your T because you just do. That's the way the body and mind works. I do not have to tell you that...nobody does, because in the back of your mind you know it is not a easy step We all want to hear the miracle solution that you are habitated or cured in a day.....it will not happen. Take that for a fact.
And if it happens....good for you....I would hope that for everybody.

What you can do is stop fighting it and accept it that you have it. It took me more than a year....and I'm still not fully there and perhaps never will.

Your in a fase right now that is very difficult and you do not understand your T just yet...and you brain also does not know I guess. So your fully focused on it......just give it time....but do not try to fight it. It's like other people here also tell you....it's a battle you will loose. Habitation comes when it comes and perhaps one of the most important things is not to be stressed..... That is also the hardest part.
I talked to a friend about my T almost 24/7 in the beginning...I just could not stop talking about it..... He also has T so he could relate...but he was already 2 years in. I called him 10 times a day just to ask if his T was als louder today because mine was. ...... I do not do that anymore

Finding your way to cope with it takes time....think about that ....my T was very very veryyyyyyyyyyyy loud....it did hurt my ears ...I could not stand any TV noise.... and now after more that a year the slidest sound masks it.

In a silent room it's still loud but than again...why sit in a silent room if I don't have to. Don't search for your T don't listen to your T....done that been there didn't help a damn thing...just got more focused on it. And yes when it's loud you will think....how can I not think about it......I don't know what rings your bell, but for me it was computer games and keeping my mind challenged (So I started more programming C#/IOS/Java) you name it as long as my mind was busy. When my mind was not busy...like watching a program for my son of (at the time) 1 years old....T blew my mind because the information I had to proces was a bird showing me a color and I had to guess what color it was....so my mind thought...screw that...it's to simple...lets do T together.....But the moment I challenged my self with more complex stuff T went to the background.

Stay strong....

 

@Danny Boy, I realize that it's hard. But it is not quite as hard as some make it out to be. It can be done. It definitely can be done. I used to think it was impossible. But I was wrong.

Perhaps look at it this way. There are basically two populations of folks who inhabit tinnitus support boards - those who are winners and those who are still trying to figure out how to win.

The latter group quite naturally dominates, because in the final analysis they are the ones seeking support. Those who have won their battle have no real need for tinnitus support. So the result is that relatively few of them seek out support sites.

Oh. Perhaps you are wondering about the losers. How come I didn't mention losers? It's because we are all in the same boat. We all have tinnitus. And the way I see it, you are not a loser unless you have given up entirely.

So when it comes right down to it, Danny Boy, the question facing folks like you is whether they want to put more stock in what the winners are saying. Or put more stock in what those who have yet to figure out how to win are saying.

Best to all. To the winners ... and to those who are still trying to figure out how to win.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Thanks Dr. I really love this site, because there's so much help and advice. I really do want to fight against this and will continue on...Still I am worried about trying to cope, as there's only so much a human being can take. I have heard horror stories about people stabbing themselves in the heart, because the tinnitus is too much...And people will continue to do the same, to escape this...Why on earth is more not being done and why isn't it taken seriously? If people die and people suffer surely something should be done? That's what annoys me the most, knowing people want to die, rather than to live with this. People naturally are scared of death and this turns that inside out and motivates them to do the deed...Doesn't that demonstrate how life threatening this condition is? A cure needs to be sorted out, because dying is natural, but wanting to die isn't and to kill oneself isn't.

 

You do not need to convince me that intrusive tinnitus is a very serious condition.

And, sure, a cure needs to be sorted out.

The question for you - and everybody else on this board who truly suffers from tinnitus - is what are you going to do for yourself to lessen the impact your tinnitus has on you until that cure gets sorted out. It seems to me, @Danny Boy, that you have decided on Strategy A: Try do whatever you can do to make your tinnitus softer and avoid things that might make it louder. Well, I am telling you that in my opinion that is a battle you cannot win. But I sincerely wish you well with it nonetheless. My suggestion? Seriously consider Strategy B: Take steps towards lessening your reaction to your tinnitus, regardless of how loud it might be. That is a strategy that has succeeded in thousands upon thousands of cases just like yours. It is a strategy that takes those who have not yet figured out how to win ... and turns them into winners.

That's how I see it anyway.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

I agree with @RicoS 100%: "You can not stop caring about your T just because you want to."

It is a process. The best you can do is take meaningful purposeful steps to facilitate that process. You can remove impediments and help things along, but you cannot make it happen.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Dr. Can you shed some light on how to implement strategy B?
Thanks and your input is very much appreciated.

 

Strategy B involves removing those impediments to not caring one way or the other about your tinnitus that you control and doing your best to indirectly address those impediments you do not control.

Everybody has his or her own impediments, of course. But I can make a few general statements.

Habituation is what we are talking about here. That is the process of getting to the point where you do not care about your tinnitus one way or the other.

So one of the biggest impediments I see on this board and others is when you pay attention to folks who tell you that habituation is bunk. Those folks are out there, of course. I suspect that they believe in what they are saying, but not one of them has overcome his or her tinnitus - that is, unless for whatever reason his or her tinnitus has resolved. But beyond that, these folks have not won their battle. So if you want to win yours, I cannot for the life of me understand why you would seek guidance in that regard from folks who have not yet figured out how to win theirs. Seek from them camaraderie? Sure. Seek from them sympathy? Sure. Seek from them humor? Sure. But seek from them guidance on how to accomplish that which they themselves have not yet figured out how to accomplish (or even if it is worthwhile in the first place)? Why would you do that?

Another impediment is trying to "figure out" your own tinnitus in the hopes that you can do this, that, or the other thing to keep it from getting any louder. If your goal is not to care one way or the other, then why give your tinnitus any more credit than it deserves? If you ultimately want it to be no more than just another sound, then do your best to treat it like it is just another sound instead of letting it dictate how you conduct your life.

Here's another one. If you turn to your spouse or partner for understanding and compassion, but all means continue to do so. But restrict it to a schedule - like between 5PM and 6PM on Mondays and Thursdays. Your spouse agrees to be unconditionally available to you to talk about your tinnitus in those time slots should you wish to talk about it. But other than that, no talking tinnitus. Tinnitus is enough of a stressor in a relationship. Allowing your spouse or partner to conduct his or her day without always worrying about being blindsided by your "need" to talk about your tinnitus will be a good thing for your spouse or partner, for you, and for your relationship.

There are dozens of things like that - impediments to habituation that you control.

And then there are the limbic and autonomic factors over which you have no direct control. I'm not saying that you have to go out and do CBT, TRT, PMT, TAT, NTT, MBCT, or the like. But I do think it helps to have an understanding of the role those factors play in intrusive tinnitus. So that you can figure out how best you can indirectly address them if need be.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Thanks for your insight Dr.
I agree with most of what you wrote.....after all there millions of people out there with T who are not on these forums like we are....and presumably they are doing fine since they aren't all over the forums like us.

 

You are welcome.

Well, it goes beyond that.

When a real winner does show up here - somebody like @here2help who has truly conquered his tinnitus and hyperacusis - what happens? The naysayers make it so unpleasant for him that the net result is that he's gone.

I disagree with @here2help about a lot of things, but whether or not I agree with him, I consider what he has to say to be of value. Problem is ... this board no longer has the benefit of his insight. So let's give a round of applause to a handful of folks who have not yet figured out how to win for costing us all a valuable resource.

Anyway, everybody deserves a rant every once in a while. And I'm no exception. Done now. So carry on.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Dr. Nagler, I completely hear what you're saying. And, to an extent, I agree with it. However, we must recognize that people with tinnitus have a condition that unfortunately, will at times drive their bus. This is no different than someone who has a bad knee: that person may decide to stop enjoying certain things that aggravate his knee, such as playing football or running a marathon. This person might really enjoy these things, but unfortunately, it's just not wise for him to do these things. In a sense, his bad knee is "driving his bus".

Someone with a heart condition might really enjoy scuba diving, but it's not the wisest thing for him to do. In a sense, he is letting his condition drive his bus.

People with tinnitus that is affected by diet might not be able to take the spike. I know some people have it so bad that life is a challenge as it is, and there is no reason for them to make it worse. Luckily, diet doesn't seem to affect my T, but if it did, I would probably avoid those foods as well.

Again, I say this with great respect to you, but at the same time, I do think it is a little more complicated than what you're saying.

 

Executing a strategy can be complicated. Figuring out how to navigate the various challenges that any given strategy presents can be very frustrating. Staying with that strategy can be incredibly difficult. All that is very true.

But weighing various strategies, selecting one that makes sense in the long run from a practical point of view, committing to that strategy, and taking the first purposeful steps towards making the goal of that strategy a reality for you? All that takes is clear thinking, a little time to sort things out, and faith in yourself.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

@Dr. Nagler

I am appalled at your narrow understanding of tinnitus.

I am appalled at the single-minded, narrow confines you consistently choose to simplify tinnitus into as some sort of “black and white” issue, or “winner – not yet winner” (i.e. loser) debate.

I am appalled that you blithely assume that tinnitus “volume” is almost a non issue, and should be “ignored” as you get on with the real business of “not caring about your tinnitus”.

I am appalled that you consistently treat “tinnitus reactivity” as some sort of fantasy, devoid of a ‘bodily’ context, and that just maybe it is relevant to not feed fuel to that reality.

I could go on, but as @dan says, you seem to thrive on turning a simple chocolate bar into an Iraq war. Speaking of which…it is an ideal example of how people who have gone beyond high school “games consciousness” realize that the real world is many shades of grey, and seldom black and white as you like to make out.

I mean, who “won” the Iraq War II??? We hardly even know who the participants were! The USA? The Coalition? Al Qaeda? Saddam? Sunnis? Shiites? Iran? Mossad? And what of the early defectors from the Coalition? Were they “losers”…Oh sorry, “non winners”. They left because they figured out it was too damn complicated to “win”. They were the smart ones, who did not perpetuate an endless cycle of more blown eardrums and tinnitus afflicted masses.

Tinnitus is analogous to that. Complicated, multi-faceted, evasive, many shades of grey. It’s a veritable physiological “Middle East” in our human bodies. Defying peace and forever blowing up in our faces.

But not to you. You are the “peace-maker” with a simple solution that fits all. It’s totally absurd.

I think that whoever said you have forgotten the visceral reality of your tinnitus 20 years ago or whatever, is correct. I think if you had that “knee bending, I can’t handle this” reaction every few months, or every few years even, you may be a little more cognizant of the need to avoid that monster. I know that if I kicked you in the kidneys every few days, just as you figured you were getting over the last kick, you would not “adapt” or “habituate” that easily. I sincerely doubt you would get to the place where you “just would not care about it one way or the other”.

I live with that kind of reactivity. If I do not “care about my tinnitus” and pay close attention to the things that can increase it, I end up with MORE volume! And if you tell me that is irrelevant and not like getting kicked in the kidneys each time, then I say that is just BS. Just recall how almost everyone I have ever heard of who gets tinnitus at first gets some sort of fear reaction, or annoyance, or worry. The louder the volume the more effect. If it is very mild and hardly noticeable except in super quiet, of course it is less of a big deal. When it is head shattering, even a tough Marine can crumble.

Yes, eventually, by whatever means or just plain time, most adapt and habituate. But that beginning. That start, is almost always frightening and “reactive”. And if there is another permanent increase in volume, the fear and “I can’t handle this” comes back and has to be faced…or not. Some do not make it. The “non winners”. Those who cannot face off the Niagara Falls. The ultimate “losers”.

Please. Spare me. It makes me gag. Now the “non winners” have the burden of a guilt trip to add to their suffering? They care about not getting shaken to the core so they are thus “not there yet”? Poor losers, if only they would learn that the body stuff is just irrelevant. Puke.

Perhaps these people…People like me, come to places like Tinnitus Talk to maybe learn that chocolate indeed can create more reactivity and perhaps should be avoided. Perhaps trying to “do whatever you can do to make your tinnitus softer and avoid things that might make it louder”, is a very smart thing to do, and indeed a strategy that can have everything to do with overcoming ones tinnitus. Indeed, not making it louder, and not re-igniting the fear demon is critical to dealing with “reactive tinnitus”. And the argument that ‘everyone has T that reacts to something’ just does not cut it. It is not what I am talking about. Tell that to someone on day two of their new, very loud volume T…But perhaps I am just a “non winner” as have only habituated to louder and louder T three times. My BODY still is not there yet with stage four and the last thing I need is someone telling me to not care about whether my T gets louder again. That is dangerous and ridiculous.

My advice to others with “reactive T” of any stripe, is to ignore TWANG's conflict driven world. I intent to try...until I just can't take the insult any more!

Zimichael

 

Apparently we see things differently.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Yes we very much do...Hear them differently too.

 

Do you believe that there is something particularly unique about your tinnitus that prevents you from habituating?

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Tinnitus is unique person-to-person...I don't think everyone can hibernate to it, if they could, I wouldn't hear about many suicides related to tinnitus. Let's face it, we all have different frequencies and volumes and we're never going to know what it's like for that individual now are we? Whilst hibernation is a good idea, I still believe it is related to how loud your tinnitus is...If it's so loud that you can't sleep, how can you block that out? For example, my tinnitus lowers when I wake up and stays quite low for half the day and then heightens to levels which become unbearable...How can I adjust to something which keeps changing? It's hard, very, very hard. Hibernation sounds nice, but seems like it's there to tell people, wait there's no cure, so suck it up...If there was a cure, we wouldn't be telling people this.

 

Read my posts. Read my Profile. Read about the "body" aspect of tinnitus that has little to do with "what I think". I have already "habituated" to stage 4 volume tinnitus. My "body" = hearing apparatus, has not!
If I don't pay close attention I get kicked in the kidneys...'hearing equivalent' thereof. This is what I call "Reactive Tinnitus". This is what I call "Quality of Life Affecting Tinnitus". This is what I call "not being able to just go to conferences, or restaurants, or walk down the street, or go to the store, or the symphony, or be in a room with people who suddenly cough"...and so on. It is not what you have. If it were you would understand what I am talking about. The closest you can get is when your "knees were buckling" in the bad old days. Live with a repetition of that at the drop of a hat. Practice does not make perfect.

 

You raise many issues, @Danny Boy.

You are right in that everybody's tinnitus is unique. But everybody's tinnitus also have some things in common. My comments and observations are based on that commonality.

It is not my intention to cause trouble or be disruptive. I merely want to point out while this board is dominated by folks who have not yet figured out how to win their battle with tinnitus, the views of those who have done just that deserve a floor as well.

All the best to you -

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Thanks Dr. Nagler...I will keep trying to fight this horrible condition and new research gives me hope...I just hope that Autifony have the cure for a majority of people.

 

@Zimichael, I understand exactly what you have. I see it in my clinic all the time. You are likely a very nice person, but in terms of tinnitus you are not all that special.

I wish you well -

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

I sincerely hope you find the silence you seek.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

This is my worry Dr. Nagler, that this happens to people....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...oes-tinnitus-drove-stabbed-death-despair.html

A rock music fan apparently took his life after battling to get treatment for debilitating tinnitus, an inquest heard yesterday.

Father-of-two Robert McIndoe, 52, was unable to sleep for three months after attending a concert that left him with a permanent ringing in his ears.

But he was put off and turned away several times by doctors.

A letter of referral to a hospital ear, nose and throat specialist finally arrived the day after he is believed to have stabbed himself to death.

His wife Shirley McIndoe told the hearing that the day after he went to see the band Them Crooked Vultures last July, her husband was ‘cross with himself’ for not taking ear plugs.

She said: ‘When it first happened he wasn’t too bothered about it because he thought it would subside, and the friend he had been with also had ringing in his ears that day.

‘But it was a constant irritation. He didn’t get a night of sleep after that.’

Mr McIndoe, a management consultant and a keen guitarist, visited his GP surgery three times and was referred to see an ear, nose and throat specialist at King’s College Hospital in London.

But when he went to the hospital, he was told it had no specialists in the field. He was then turned away by St Thomas’s.

Less than a fortnight before his death, Mr McIndoe attended A&E at Lewisham Hospital, where he was prescribed sleeping tablets and a doctor promised to fax his GP for an appointment the following day.



Lewisham Hospital: Robert McIndoe first went to his local hospital after contracting tinnitus

But when he visited his surgery the following day, he was told no note had been received. ‘He came away from that appointment really, really distressed – and felt the GP didn’t believe him and was treating him like a malingerer,’ his wife said.

The day after the appointment, on October 19 last year, he left a suicide note before taking an overdose of the sleeping tablets at the family home in Sydenham, south-east London.




Mr McIndoe, 52, had been to a concert to see Them Crooked Vultures. Pictured are band members John Paul Jones, Dave Grohl and Josh Homme

This was unsuccessful. ‘He said he hadn’t wanted to wake up because he couldn’t bear the thought that he was no good to us,’ Mrs McIndoe said.

‘He just wanted to sleep and not be suffering. They kept him in hospital for three days and I thought that had been the low point, and we were moving forward.’

However, on October 31 he died after apparently stabbing himself, Southwark Coroner’s Court heard.



Robert McIndoe tried alternative therapies and even considered permanently deafening himself by having his auditory nerve cut

The referral letter arrived on November 1. ‘As far as Robert was concerned, he never heard back from anyone,’ said Mrs McIndoe.

Following his admission for the overdose, Mr McIndoe told a psychiatrist he ‘was prepared to be deaf or dead’ if he could get no relief from the maddening ringing.

Consultant psychiatrist Dr Nicholas Dunn, who saw Mr McIndoe on the day of his discharge after the suicide attempt, said: ‘I thought he would be manageable in the community.

‘I thought there was a risk of a further overdose, because of his previous behaviour, but I didn’t didn’t have him down as committing suicide – it was a shock.’

The court heard that Mr McIndoe had tried alternative therapies, including acupuncture, and even considered permanently deafening himself by having his auditory nerve cut.

‘He was very distressed, saying he didn’t think he could go on,’ his wife said. ‘It was awful, he looked terrible, and he just felt so bad all the time. He was desperate that it was never going to change – he didn’t know if he could live like this.’

A profile on business networking site LinkedIn lists his interests as acting, art, film-making, health, people and theatre.

The hearing continues.

 

What you have there, @Danny Boy, is an extremely rare occurrence. Sure, when it happens within the tinnitus community, then word spreads like wildfire. But it is still extremely rare.

There is not a single shred of evidence suggesting that the suicide rate in the tinnitus population is any greater than in the population at large. In fact, there is actually one study that suggests it is somewhat lower.

Dr. Stephen Nagler

 

Still, it's the lack of help and communication that caused this man's death...I think the NHS needs to do more for tinnitus...

 

The NHS does need to do more. So does the US government.

You'll get no argument from me there.

But my focus here lies more along the lines of what you can do for yourself.

Dr. Stephen Nagler