Cochlear Nerve Section Cures Some People's Tinnitus

[Sen]

Habituation means to "live with it." But it also means that you'll become so used to it that you often won't even notice it, and when you do notice it, it won't bother you.

The whole "living with it" thing is a lot better in reality than it sounds to you right now.

Plenty of people who at one time felt just as badly as you do about tinnitus have gone on to live very happy fulfilling lives. Two months is an incredibly narrow time frame for any meaningful habituation to occur. You need to give it more time.

 

[vasil]

I dont know. I tried for two months, but i cant. It drives me crazy. I think 7-8 hours a day just for the sound. Sometimes it is just on its way to dissapear, then to return with vengeance. And it is just in the right ear, so lets say it in Hollywood style- I am willing to take "full measure", if my left ear remain intact

 

[dan]

@vasil , are you from Russia?

Yes, it is actually standard procedure to severe 1 ear at a time for people with bilateral tinnitus because if the procedure fails, at least the patient is not 100% deaf.

You might want to give Retigabin (Trobalt) as try. It is a drug that prevents tinnitus and since you are very early stage, it might abolish your tinnitus 100%. I believe Russia has this drug.

 

[dan]

Habituation is a very real and natural physiological phenomenon that happens on its own over time. TRT didn't invent the concept, and you don't have to do any particular therapy in order to habituate. Habituation also has nothing to do with "believing in yourself." Time is easily the most important factor in habituation, and two months is hardly a blip on the radar.

Habibubation is real when you have milder tinnitus.

 

[vasil]

@dan Nah, Bulgaria, still slavic country, Eastern bloc, close call from you.
Thank you for the answer. As for the drugs therapy, I am currently on Cavinton with other stuff that I cant recall without the prescription, but with no effect. Still I am taking them from 3 days and its too early to tell, but I am looking for a cardinal decision. The ENTs and otoneurologist failed to find a reason behind my condition and pretty much didnt take me seriously, but its big deal for me, unlike for them. Around here we have a saying for such situations, that will sound pretty close to this in english- A horrible end is better than horror without end. So i am consulting a surgeon soon.
As for Trobalt its available around here, but on first read, only with prescription, and I doubt this doctors will help me.

 

[dan]

As for Trobalt its available around here, but on first read, only with prescription, and I doubt this doctors will help me.

Vasil, PLEASE try to get Trobalt, if doctors in Bulgaria will not prescribe it, you can go to country like Russia or Croatia or even Dominican Republic, where you may get a prescription easier.
Also I cannot believe a ENT will agree to make you deaf, but will not agree to try a short course (3-4months) of an available drug!
Also give habibubation a try at least 1 year.

 

[vasil]

On a second read I think this drug is without prescription. I will give my current terapy a try, but if it dont help me, I will go for Trobalt or something else. After that I will go for surgery. My T is quite new, not even 2 monts. but from what I read, a man must react quickly, after the 12 months it becomes chronic. I will take some experimental medications soon, for the greater good

 

[cdog]

Instead of cutting the nerve, is it possible to 'disable' it temporarily - like anesthesize it with lidocaine or the likes? This will enable one to see if tinnitus is eliminated or not.

 

[Sjoerd]

Instead of cutting the nerve, is it possible to 'disable' it temporarily - like anesthesize it with lidocaine or the likes? This will enable one to see if tinnitus is eliminated or not.

I asked this question to dr Nagler a while back....no awnser jet.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/sedating-the-auditory-nerve.5090/

 

[Matthias]

Instead of cutting the nerve, is it possible to 'disable' it temporarily - like anesthesize it with lidocaine or the likes? This will enable one to see if tinnitus is eliminated or not.

Been asking myself the same question.
But it seems like almost any procedure to the inner ear is too risky and difficult. The nerve can't be reached with a needle and without opening skull ?

 

[raymundo2245]

Nah dude, dont do it, i was in the same shoes back in march of this year, i got it on my left ear and has been increasing very bad,but the brain gets used to it in time, time is your bestfriend right now so just give it time, i know its hard but if i did it and i have, anxiety attack, paranoia,some depression and drink no pills or drugs i have managed to live with it in time, teust me i thougbt it was imposible, but it certaily is, the power of the brain is incredible and a gift from God, the weird thing about mine is that i percieve it louder than before almost full blast but still can hear very good, i dont understand it and i really dont want to, i can live with it now and so can you my friend just have faith and as fucked up as it sounds but true learn to listen to it and accept it and the quicker you will recover, i promise you and so do all our beloved friends here, we feel your pain and believe me we know better, but is good to have hopes and maybe one day it can be quiet again, but maybe we wont even care about treating it, i know people that had it for so long they dont care about treating it anymore, they have learned to avoid it even as loud as it is.....God bless you and wish a fulk recovery!

 

[Valentin]

When one has tinnitus it's very important to keep your hearing, that's the only thing that can mask that hellish sound.

think about it, how could something heard in the head(head tinnitus not ear tinnitus) be solved by cutting the nerve coming from the ear?

 

[vasil]

@raymundo2245 Interesting, while reading your post i recognised myself. I also have panic attacks from time to time, trouble sleeping,hypochondria and other stuff. My T started after such hard period for me. Funny, after the T, no pannic attacks and I fell asleep easier than before, maybe it is my self preservation instinct, trying to stop me from destroyng myself in a wiked way... Maybe ours will go away in time, when we manage to overcome our psychical problems. I can too hear everything, no matter how loud the sound in my head is.

 

[raymundo2245]

God bless you and help you habituate, you know i get these attsck everynow and then and same bere, tinitus has rely helped me understand myself and helped me in taking things a little easier, last night i just found out that my tinitus is noise induced, i went to a loud football game and boy when i got out of there my tinitus was louder than ever, so my doubts about how i got it are very clear, i thougbt it was allergies,neck injury, blood preasure so now i just have to be more carefull since i work at loud plants like refineries....keep in touch man we could help each other out with this desease, i stopped trying to aliviate,take any medicid3, i eat,drink whstever i desire since i have habituated but right now i have to be more carefull, i guess God lets us know our doubts somehow, i regret going to that place last night now i have to figure out how to cope with this loud3r beepi g sound, im used to it but oh well i have to bare with it....!

 

[Grace]

Instead of cutting the nerve, is it possible to 'disable' it temporarily - like anesthesize it with lidocaine or the likes? This will enable one to see if tinnitus is eliminated or not.

The shea clinic will inject lidocaine into the ear and alot of people do get temporary silence from it but then it wears off. Lidocaine is a kv3.1 channel modulater i believe but it is dangerous long term. But they took the theory on that and are making drugs such as autifonys kv3 channel drug as an example and making it longterm in pill form. So another reason i believe autifony will bennefit tons.

 

[Matthias]

I asked this question to dr Nagler a while back....no awnser jet.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/sedating-the-auditory-nerve.5090/

can you send him a polite reminder?

 

[aylp]

Hi I have been considering this option, because one of my ear is not good for anything anymore:

- I have multiple T that actually hurts my R ear
- For 5 months I had unbearable hyperacusis and sometimes Tulio (sudden, short balance loss after hearing - even your own voice)
- After that torture my affected ear lost its quality and ability to hear. I am deaf after and including 4kHz in R and if anything the remaining hearing is not `hearing', e.g. when I plug and unplug my ear with my finger I hear a `tunnnnn', like hammering a piece of metal.

Unluckily, auditory nerve is not a SINGLE nerve. It is called ``Cochleovestibular nerve'' until it reaches cochlea. Then vestibular nerve proceeds to semi-circular canals, saccule, and otricule. This is the bad part: As far as I know they cannot save the vestibular nerve when they are dissecting auditory nerve. So when you are killing your hearing you are killing your vestibular system in one ear too, and there is a fine risk of facial nerve irritation - because of the close proximity.

Believe me, if what I know is true, no level of tinnitus might make one think about vestibular nerve sacrificed. In the worst case, one may become disabled as they cannot walk. This dissection is used in intractable Meniere's patients with not much remaining vestibular function - given that the other is working - and the have to stay in bed for 2-3 months, full of vertigo attacks and imbalance, and go through vestibular rehabilitation. And it is a LAST RESORT.

 

[David S]

I see nerve section is coming up from time to time, There is probably not many doctors in the world that would do this bemuse there is a far more effective ways. That is cochlear implant. Once they are inserted that are basically 2 ways. One is that this implant will replace cochlear completely and the nerve is cut of from it. The other way this that the implant is working parallel with your cochlear. The implant will only signal on he frequencies that you already lost you hearing the rest would be natural. This is to my knowledge truly the only way to suppress Tinnitus because the electrical stimulation replace the the missing input from the lost hearing. This is typically only considered to people with severe hearing lost. The result that it also suppress Tinnitus is proven time after time, and known to all the doctors working with the implant. There is really no reason way this not would work the same with people with just i minor hearing lost. It is just that it is to expansive for most public healthcare and insurance but that is another story.

 

[NiNyu]

@David S, actually getting T is a cochlea implant risk. It's a 50/50 chance. However, some patients that have T prior to the cochlea implant might get a relief of T or it completely dissipates.

@Grace I am really interested in the Lidocaine procedure. Anybody tried it?

 

[Brianna]

I see nerve section is coming up from time to time, There is probably not many doctors in the world that would do this bemuse there is a far more effective ways. That is cochlear implant. Once they are inserted that are basically 2 ways. One is that this implant will replace cochlear completely and the nerve is cut of from it. The other way this that the implant is working parallel with your cochlear. The implant will only signal on he frequencies that you already lost you hearing the rest would be natural. This is to my knowledge truly the only way to suppress Tinnitus because the electrical stimulation replace the the missing input from the lost hearing. This is typically only considered to people with severe hearing lost. The result that it also suppress Tinnitus is proven time after time, and known to all the doctors working with the implant. There is really no reason way this not would work the same with people with just i minor hearing lost. It is just that it is to expansive for most public healthcare and insurance but that is another story.

(NiNyu - ignore my response. You know it already .) David, I had a cochlear implant 10/2013. I had fairly severe tinnitus before, so when I saw it as a side-effect, I ignored it because I already had it. In my case (and one fellow in the US from AZ said the same thing I'm saying) it made the T worse. In my case, exponentially worse because saying severely worse doesn't cut it.

It really doesn't help process hearing and my history is pretty unique. It does, however, diminish it because (I'm guessing) it allows sound. When I take it off at night, despite the fact that I loathe it in so many ways, I loathe what it does to me to the point where I dread taking off this device that I loathe off. T is always in my head to one degree to another. But the implant has compounded it. (For me, it doesn't suppress it because it still exists 24/7. Hence my careful use of the word "diminishes" the T.)

One more slight correction is that implants may be suggested to those who have a severe loss. But in my case, the insurance required a profound loss. My analogy to that is having a hearing test where I asked the audiologist if she'd turn up the volume. She said, with a look of fear in her face, she couldn't because the soundproof booth wasn't that soundproof. We left the test when she hit 110 dB and my request was to boost it to 120 dB.

 

[ruben ruiz]

This operation has been around since the mid-90s. If it were more successful I should think that more would be written about it. What sort of doctor does this operation?

 

[Christian78]

I thought this had already been posted as a stand alone thread but I was mistaken so here it is.


Cochlear nerve section for intractable tinnitus

Abstract
Tinnitus is a common and often very disturbing symptom. The majority of patients can now be successfully treated either by conservative medical treatment or by specific surgery. Intractable subjective tinnitus originating within the cochlea or cochlear nerve can frequently be successfully treated by cochlear nerve section. The cochlear nerve must be severed medial to the spiral ganglion to obtain optimum results. One hundred fifty-one cases are reported. Complete relief of tinnitus was achieved in 101 patients, worthwhile improvement was obtained in 43 patients and 7 patients obtained no improvement. The indications for this surgery will be given. Careful examination, accurate diagnosis, and proper selection of patients with intractable tinnitus for cochlear nerve section offer a good chance for success.



Although I would certainly never advocate anyone sacrificing their hearing to cure their Tinnitus it's an interesting study because it shows that at least for some people their Tinnitus is caused exclusively in their ears and not the brain.

no one say how many make their state much much much worse.

 

[Christian78]

hahaha SOME PEOPLE get better, rest of thousands get to kill them self becouse not they cant mask it

 

[ruben ruiz]

Ive habituated twice, twice the T got worse its like starting over again. Its getting to a point that its taking over. Its louder that y masker than the TV its god awful.. Ten years im praying ten months.

 

[Ian Mac]

If you numb the nerve with lidocaine and tinnitus disappears it means severing the nerve will work, doesn't that make sense? The obstacle is getting to the nerve to numb it or severe it, but it is possible and has been severed many times for minieres disease, so numbing it is also possible.

 

[Fightthearmy]

What other kinds of surgery haven't we tried? If cutting the auditory nerve doesn't solve tinnitus, then how about excavating the entire auditory cortex (or parts of it). Is there any rational basis why this hasn't been tried on those who had already had their auditory nerve severed?

If you think removing parts of your brain sounds extreme, you should look up the kid on youtube who suffered from annoying seizures. Removing HALF of her brain cured her seizures, and she didn't show any perceptible loss of cognitive function. In the post-surgery video where she talks, she's virtually indistinguishable from a child with normal IQ. The auditory cortices are minuscule, like the earth is to jupiter, in comparison to the removed portion of her brain. And yes, I know many deaf people live fulfilling lives. I haven't heard anyone with tinnitus ever say tinnitus is "part of who they are".

 

[JohnAdams]

And people are calling me crazy for going to Minbo Shim's clinic. LOL.

 

[Fightthearmy]

And people are calling me crazy for going to Minbo Shim's clinic. LOL.

Is it crazy wanting to do almost anything to get out of this nightmare? Removing the audio cortices would be a way to end tinnitus - the only sureproof one which exists or will exist in many years to come. Give me reasons why

a) it wouldn't work well.
b) it wouldn't be safe with skilled surgeons.
c) why you would suffer any loss of cognitive function. Remember the girl on youtube who had HALF her brain matter removed. The audio cortices are minuscule in proportion.
d) why the hell this hasn't been tried on any of the subjects who had cochlear nerve section and tinnitus persisted. It's not as if they have much to lose anymore.