Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Support' started by ajc, Feb 28, 2020.

    1. david c

      david c Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2012
      The UK has recorded today the highest death toll from COVID-19 - over 1500 people. The actual death toll from COVID-19 in the UK now tops over 100,000, as for a long period last year thousands of people died from COVID-19 who weren't able to get a COVID-19 test. Their deaths are not therefore included in the official statistics for COVID-19 deaths, which have been deliberately kept low by a government keen to shirk blame.

      Yet sadly there are clearly plenty of COVID-19-deniers in the UK. Some of their arguments hinge on the economic damage of lockdowns. Well, there's plenty of evidence from a country which refused to order lockdowns: Sweden. Despite a very low population density Sweden has managed to record a death toll several times higher than its Scandinavian neighbours. And it has actually has had worse economic consequences as well. Of course if the UK had a remotely satisfactory test and trace system some of the severest consequences of lockdown might be avoided, but again that comes back to how badly our government has handled things.

      The irony for the COVID-19 conspiracy-theorists is that there were indeed "dark influences" at work last year: The powerful financial vested interests that ensured the government ordered a lockdown weeks too late and allowed several super-spreader events such as the Cheltenham races to go ahead. The consequences were thousands of unnecessary deaths.
       
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    2. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Irony within irony.
       
    3. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      I've stated my position on that so you don't need to keep assimilating my posts with the idea of conspiracy theory or hoax. I don't assimilate your posts with narrative pushing.
       
    4. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      This appears to be a classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. I have spoken to my friends at length about this and you have no idea what you are talking about as you are not an expert in this field. There are strict criteria that they follow, and the reason for it being 28-days is explained in one of my posts above. The way the deaths are counted has been peer-reviewed by statisticians as being robust. Are you claiming to understand this field better than them because you’ve read a few things on Google?

      This is why people go out infecting others and being negligent. They think they know better, and all the misinformation that is banded about by armchair experts only perpetuates the problem. This leads to more infections and people dying because some legitimately believe that COVID-19 is nothing but a sniffle.
      I just follow the facts. I have never disputed the point that lockdowns cause more misery, they do. This doesn’t negate the fact that the coronavirus is sweeping across the country causing more carnage than the country has seen since the Spanish Flu.

      What would your solution be? Scrap the PCR test, and then what? What does that solve? There is nothing that can be done that can be considered a perfect solution. No matter what is done, people are going to suffer a lot. It’s a lose lose situation.

      What annoys me are those who still insist that it’s no big deal, and/or is all fake. It’s tragically sad.
       
    5. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I only say this because your beliefs are firmly aligned with those who believe it is a hoax, or nothing but the flu, as they sometimes put it. Your arguments are cut and pastes of what I see all over social media by people who don’t believe it’s true. I honestly think this can lead to more deaths as some don’t know any better and it gives them a false sense of entitlement. They think masks and social distancing are pointless, so they carry on as normal because of the crap they read online.

      If we didn’t lockdown, do you believe the number of deaths would remain the same, or do you believe they would rise exponentially?

      If you were the prime minister, what would you do?
       
    6. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      At this point I know enough people who have been vaxxed that I'm mostly just anxious about the rollout speed; the idea of getting slammed with COVID-19 and having tinnitus spikes from that alarms me a lot more than anything about the vaccine.
       
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    7. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      You've just cited your own behaviour in the first two paragraphs above. The problem here is, you follow your own facts but when others do the same and they happen to disagree you have a habit of resorting to gutter sniping and personal ad-hominems. Do you behave like this in real life?

      I've already told you in prior posts what I believe would be the better way forward at this point.
       
    8. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      I don't know how your lockdowns worked in the UK, but from the NE USA perspective, this argument is also made here, and it's nonsensical because we had very few actual "lockdowns" (zero, in the Bejing sense of the word), and to the extent that business capacity has been limited, they still are mostly not able to meet that capacity because enough people are taking the virus seriously that they have no interest in going to restaurants and bars, allowed or not.

      Yes, this is highly regional; areas where conspiracy theories have fomented more, have not had the same extent of initial service sector losses... but most of those places have had resulting spikes which have driven deaths and created fear, which drives economic losses as a secondary effect.

      I can't speak to the UK's situation, but domestically, in my region of the US, "lockdowns" aren't strangling the economy at all -- COVID-19 is, because no one wants to go out for a beer with their mates if it means "oh maybe I kill grandma, or end up dead or with weird complications myself".
       
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    9. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      You are the one repeating the trash you read on social media, The Guardian and Sky News. Moreover, assimilating people asking legitimate questions with a behaviour that is leading to more deaths is disgraceful.
      ...and seriously, I've never seen anyone cut and paste their argument more than you. The hypocrisy is stunning.
       
    10. Stu1983
      Studious

      Stu1983 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Around 2008/spiked Dec 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2008 sound/ 2018 Meds made the volume several times worse
      I’m so sorry to hear this bro. Are you certain COVID-19 was the cause or were there other factors involved?
       
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    11. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Lockdown 1 put about 15 million people on "Furlough" - a socialised wage bill that paid people to be at home doing nothing. Our kids will pick up the tab. At this point in time no one really knows what's going to happen to those jobs when furlough ends.

      People chugged along when England opened up after Lockdown 1 but social distancing measures I think reduced money-over-the-counter for a lot of smaller businesses, especially in the hospitiality sector.

      Then there was Tiers. No one really understood what the hell was going on with Tiers. Kind of regional lockdowns and all sorts of weird traffic lighting systems. Complete mess.

      Lockdown 3 is national and means an end to Tiers and all hospitality shut again. Lockdown 3 has additional punitive elements, such as independent pubs were allowed to serve takeway beers during Lockdown 1 but in Lockdown 3 they're no longer allowed to do that. I cite this as just one example because I know a few independent brewers, and all 4 pubs in the tiny village where I live are indies too. They now have literally no way of making any money. And no government financial support, except some grants, which were not enough and didn't go far.

      Current estimate is that in the UK 1/4 million small businesses will fold. Lockdown 3 has no end at this point in time. Literally. So yea, I get the point that many don't want to go out because of the reasons you cited. But hospitality is only one part of it. There are many other sectors, and at the moment, the government decides which are essential, and which are not. And unfortunatley for those that are not...
       
    12. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      Ah. Yes, I have had the impression the UK "lockdowns" were pretty hapless and useless.

      Here in the US we could, if we collectively desired, give every family in the country $50,000 to stay home for a year while also suspending all mortgage and rent payments, and then pay that back pretty trivially over the next 15 years by shaving 10-20% off our opulent military budget.

      Of course, our annual military budget exceeds the GDP of every other country in the world except 19, so most countries will not find themselves in this situation (nor would the modern US ever make such a socialistic decision, it's just a point of comparison that the expense on these things only seems staggering if you stay inside the box of "status quo is good, spending ~15% our budget on weapons is also good, but investing in social support programs is bad".)

      Our lockdowns have also mostly been too little, too late. Places that are doing better regionally mostly have an informed and calm population taking things into their own hands to thank.

      Beijing style "weld people into buildings" lockdowns may, in theory, be more effective, but it's kind of a moot point because it's morally evil and not something people should look at as a model.
       
    13. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I knew you would say that, but that’s where you’re wrong. I listen to the experts; some of them are my friends, so I heed what I learn in our discussions and base my opinions upon their advice and experiences of what’s happening in the real-world.

      I realise that this is not my domain, so I acknowledge that I don’t know enough about this stuff directly. However, those who relentlessly post all over social media are clowns. It’s embarrassing. It’s like trying to tell a heart surgeon that he is using the wrong stitching technique - when you work in finance or something - because you saw a video on YouTube.

      Where have I personally attacked anyone? For me this is just a debate, none of this is personal at all.
      I don’t watch Sky news and I’ve never read the Guardian in my life.

      I asked a legitimate question. Why is the PCR test so important to you when people are dying all over the country?

      You said the lockdown was wrong, but what’s the alternative right now? It’s easy to criticise a situation from the sidelines, but when bodies are piling up, I think it’s somewhat more of a difficult decision to make, especially when you’re the one under pressure to make it.

      I agree that the government have made a right hash of everything. The way it’s been handled from the start has been a disaster, in my opinion. One minute we’re told to stay at home, and then they suddenly incentivise everyone to go out and have a meal, as long as you eat in together! Their decision making has been terrible.
       
    14. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Aren't you safe since you live in the middle of nowhere? (My impression at least).
       
    15. Daniel Lion
      Ape-like

      Daniel Lion Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      SE Asia
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma, hearing loss
      I have been told tinnitus is a "hoax", that the deafening suicidal noise is something we should just learn to live with. Wearing foam plugs or headphones for protection is just a "farce" and does nothing, because our problems are not in the ear but in our brains.

      My own experience tells me that this is not true.
       
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    16. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      No? Case counts are going up everywhere, the new strains are more infectious, and we still have to interact with society to some extent to shop etc.

      Beyond that though -- we're "fairly safe", but, I'd like to be able to have friends over inside my house again and stuff, go out and play cards, be inside restaurants, etc. I can wait as long as I need for that stuff to be safe, but I miss it.
       
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    17. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
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    18. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      That's a misrepresentation of what the CDC actually says, as it's the "best current estimate" from a range.

      Beyond that, if you compare these numbers to the R value and IFR for influenza... well, it's pretty obvious why COVID-19 is reshaping the world in ways that influenza doesn't. In the last nine months, and despite lots of precautions (taken more seriously some places than others), this disease has killed as many Americans as the flu does over a normal ten year period. Also, the flu kills a shitload of people every year.

      Get with the program, strip to the slow jam, slip on a trojan.
       
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    19. Stu1983
      Studious

      Stu1983 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Around 2008/spiked Dec 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2008 sound/ 2018 Meds made the volume several times worse
      @PeteJ,

      I’m glad you’re still here with us Pete. But do you think your presuppositions are in play here? I hope you’re well and I have always offered you help with your tinnitus and hyperacusis as we live nearby.
       
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    20. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Very good, Daniel!

      I was going to post a similar thing at one point, because it’s true. People on here despise the fact that tinnitus can be so misunderstood, but we have a few here that clearly don’t understand what’s really going on out there :facepalm:
      This is affecting younger people too. The people I know who are fighting for their lives, on ventilators, are in their 40s and 50s, and the security guard that died was in his 30s. The flu or a cold does not do this to healthy people, PeteJ. I’ve already said before, that I don’t know a single person who has lost their life to the flu, and especially not in the horrible way that this kills people.

      I honestly don’t think you’d last 5 minutes on a hospital ward if you saw this up close. What I’m hearing is horrifying, both via those who work amongst it everyday, and by what my mom experienced. She will never be the same again, and she is still waiting for her heart appointment. The hospital is so overwhelmed that all non-urgent surgeries and appointments have been cancelled and lots of wards and theatres have been converted into ICUs. I was told there were ambulances lining up again last night. Imagine if a relative of yours was in the back of one of them, gasping for air and panicking as they waited hours just to get inside the hospital.

      We can say, objectively, that this is in a completely different league to the flu or a cold, and those that continue to make this comparison only go on to prove Daniel Lion’s point.
       
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    21. Sevv

      Sevv Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      12.04.2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      I see. I guess we might have different expectations of the risk of infection by going shopping etc. I consider my own risk to be infected in a shop to be very low, even with the new strain going around. My highest risk is still seeing my parents (<60 years old) for eating together twice a week even though we sit far away at the table (2+ meters) but the new strain does make me a bit nervous. It can be difficult reducing your contacts to the minimum possible and still stay somewhat sane.
       
    22. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      I don't know what your fixation is by keep regurgitating this statement to me. Why do you insist on crowbarring it into each of our exchanges?
      One of your charts' sources says it's from Sky. Is that a different Sky to the broadcaster?
      Approx. 1700 people die in the UK each day. Will you take a look at the latest ONS all-mortality statistics direct from UK Gov and tell me what they say to you?

      Regarding PCR/Lockown alternatives etc, I've patiently informed you of my view on many occasions now. It's there in writing, or are you being deliberately obtuse?
       
    23. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      One thing I've noticed about Hoax theory and Flat Earth debate:

      The Internet provides enough information for a person to make an argument that the earth is flat.

      It also contains enough information to counter that argument and state the earth is round.

      It gives a platform to the clever-clogs who always steps in to inform everyone that
      in fact the earth is an oblate-spheroid.

      As far as I'm concerned, the earth is flat. The bubble in my spirit levels says so.
       
    24. HeavyMantra
      Bugridden

      HeavyMantra Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      Steadily worsening since 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      It could have been completely random, but the new tones started the same day my partner felt her first symptoms. I was almost entirely asymptomatic. My tones have been improving a bit though!

      I have also been nauseous every day ever since I got it.
       
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    25. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      It’s because it annoys me seeing the same excuses and arguments being used by people on social media platforms as a way to invalidate the seriousness of the coronavirus. I apologise, as my annoyance may have inadvertently spilt over onto you, as I only ever discuss this stuff on here. It annoys me because I see people I know who are plasterers, builders, electricians, etc, debating this stuff with academic experts all the time. It gets infuriating. They haven’t got the first clue about virology or epidemiology, but suddenly they have vast experience and know more than the experts do.

      They are the kind of people who would attend those silly rallies, where thousands upon thousands gather in cities across the country to listen to looneys like David Icke (I’m not saying this is you by the way). These rallies would have undoubtedly led to the deaths of many people, but as long as they can prove the PCR tests don’t work, or that it’s all because of 5g, or there aren't enough people dying, etc, then it’s a win for them. They are unable to see the bigger picture.
      I get my statistical information about the UK from the ONS. When I saw the news report that I posted, I knew that it was a bit misleading, so I searched for a graphical representation of one that showed the population-adjusted data to post underneath (It used the ONS data).
      I’ve already posted those data numerous times. Based on the replies I receive, I honestly don’t think that anybody looks at them. Just to be clear, though, the data showed that we had 80,000 excess deaths last year. When you take the 5-year population-adjusted data, this puts us at an excess death rate the like we haven’t seen since World War II.

      I don’t recall you ever answering the Question regarding the PCR test. However, the common opinion of those that use this argument is that if we get rid of the PCR test, life will be able to go back to normal (I’m not saying this is your view, I just haven’t seen your opinion on this, so please give me a link to it).

      One of the most important figures to follow is the excess deaths. Banning the PCR test wouldn’t stop that number from escalating, but it would hinder the attempt to stop the spread. The problem isn’t with the positive test results (there’s a 2% margin of error), it’s with the negative results (which can have up to a 29% margin of error). This is an issue because those who think they are clear could go on to infect others, but because there isn’t a more accurate test, we have to stick with it.

      Not testing at all would be ludicrous, and was the reason why it spread so rapidly in the first place.
      153F3FBC-6FCD-428F-B12F-38A16519CDE2.png
      I try to be as rational as possible and let hard data and real-world experiences form my opinions. I would never argue that a pineapple is a banana, for example.

      With all that said, let me repeat that this is not personal!! I am using this as an outlet to put my view across.
       
    26. Nobody19

      Nobody19 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Clubbing
      Once the COVID-19 pandemic is over, people will have the urge to socialise, maybe much more than before the pandemic. I can imagine huge parties being thrown all over the world.

      What do you think, will this cause a surge in new tinnitus patients?
       
    27. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      As I said, if you want to locate the PHE government surveillance data document for Weekly All Cause Mortality and post it here, we can discuss it? FWIW it clearly shows last year's spike. But as you know, I'm not debating whether or not the pandemic happened. Additionally, we know the dominant virus is still doing the rounds. My best mate's neighbour has just died from COVID-19. He was 60 years old and fit as a fiddle. The illness came out of nowhere and took 2 days to kill him. This to me is a textbook case of a Severe Acute Respiratory death. It's the first death of its sort that I'm aware of in my real-world circle of family and friends since the pandemic began.
       
    28. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      destroy all creatures. they cannot be regenerated.
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      This is a confusing post but if you're agreeing that COVID-19 hoaxers are comparable to flat earthers, in that more than adequate information exists to debunk both ideas, and both are therefore broke-brained conspiracy theories... yes, obviously.

      Only one of these two things is actively being subjected to the kind if mass disinfo that comes when an issues is heavily politicized, but that's because the flat earth people aren't relevant to the global economy or power structure. Their ideas are just as stupid as the COVID-19 deniers.
       
    29. UKBloke

      UKBloke Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      I wasn't trying to make a point. More a philosophical musing. Don't take it too seriously.
       
    30. PeteJ
      Depressed

      PeteJ Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma?
      Do you think you are ignoring the data so you can make **** up? I am quoting the CDC. Who are you quoting?

      Why do you have to patronize? Exactly, how would you "help?"
      You have no credibility, Ed. Especially after your insults towards me and cheering the young immature posters who posted long-winded insults and memes towards me. Your doomsday stories don't mean anything. The evidence I see shows no crisis.
      Except people who argue that the Earth is flat aren't accused of having "no empathy towards all the people who died" and "being a threat to people’s safety."
      Maybe you got the flu? Oh wait, that doesn't exist now.

      Yeah, COVID-19 is so dangerous but one doesn't know whether they have it unless they get a test.
       
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