Dream Treatment: Increasing Time Away From Tinnitus

Discussion in 'Alternative Treatments and Research' started by AnxiousJon, Feb 1, 2016.

tinnitus forum
    1. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      One of the worst aspects of T is how relentless it is; you never get away from it except when you sleep, but even then, you close your eyes to sleep, and you instantly wake up and it's morning. But does it have to be that way?
      Recently i took a safe pharmaceutical dose of B6 before bed, to see if it would give me more vivid dreams like the mayo clinic said, and it worked. There have been some other nights when I ate too much before bed also and though I didn't mean to, it worked then also. I don't experience T when I'm dreaming. It's like I can get a couple hours of consciousness a night without any T when I do this. How's that for therapy?
      I recently found a forum for people that into taking natural supplements that make them remember their dreams.
      You just need to be careful not to mix certain feel-good natural supplements with SSRI antidepressants, can cause a life-threatening serotonin overload.
       
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    2. ady

      ady Member

      But then you'll lose a lot of life if you sleep.
       
    3. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      I'm not talking about sleeping any more than one already does. The difference is, you are conscious During REM-sleep but without T(or rather you remember it being so) so you are getting more hours of(remembered) consciousness per day without T(if you don't have T when you dream); as opposed to closing your eyes with T, and instantly waking up in the morning with T, getting no perceivable break from it.
       
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    4. adam2525
      Balanced

      adam2525 Member

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      All of my life I've had very vivid lucid dreams. In my dreams I don't have tinnitus.
       
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    5. RaZaH
      Not amused

      RaZaH Member Benefactor Team Tech

      Location:
      Reykjavík, Iceland
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012/04
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo + loud noise
      Trobalt will do that,I almost get no rest from my sleep adventures , I almost remember the whole night :)
       
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    6. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      I'm pretty deep into dream work of one kind or another; current focus is to become lucid and then try to meditate, but often I get distracted by the wonder of it all.

      Things which I have noticed have a significant positive impact on dream vividness:
      microdose melatonin (0.1-0.3mg)
      calea zacatechichi
      NAC

      things which detract from dream vividness/recall/lucidity
      benzodiazepines
      cannabis (though, if used for a period of time, the rebound effect of cessation can be explosively vivid dreams, which my guess is relates to cannabis's tendency to suppress melatonin/REM time, followed by a swingback when ceased)
      alcohol
      antihistamines

      things which seem neutral:
      valerian

      I would recommend some amount of caution going deep into dream stuff, especially with any chemical aids. It's easy to set yourself up for nightmares or sleep paralysis; in general I don't have nightmares anymore because any kind of strong emotional state usually provokes a lucid response and then control can be assumed, but it's taken some years to get there and some of the stops along the way are harrowing.

      Also, if you have tinnitus and you make lucid/vivid dreams a goal, at some point you probably will become aware of your tinnitus in dreams to some extent, so, there's another word of caution. I find that more fascinating than alarming at this point, but, again, that took patience and practice.

      Interestingly, I have with some frequency, dreams which involve full-blown acoustic hallucination, spontaneous music, etc... my pet theory is that some of the hyperactive pathways that drive tinnitus are connecting with parts of the brain they would not normally be able to, pow, music.

      I have seen scattered reports over the years of people treating their tinnitus successfully with dream work, but, no progress on that front for me yet ;) I guess it's also not really a strong goal for me, so maybe that explains a lack of success.
       
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    7. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      @linearb Where would you suggest that someone start? What is the shallow end if the pool, so to speak? What pitfalls have you experienced?
       
    8. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      there are a bunch of different approaches to lucid dreaming; reddit has a /r/lucidDreaming subreddit which has a lot of user experiences and FAQs and stuff.

      In general, a simple western approach to lucid dreaming is to begin by keeping a log by your bed, and first thing upon waking, write down anything you remember about your dreams. At first it might just be a feeling, a color, whatever -- the more you do that, the more you will recall. A next step is generally to ask yourself, throughout the day, "am I dreaming? How do I know I'm not dreaming?" The idea is that you build in a reflexive habit of asking "am I dreaming?" and then at some point that circuit fires when you are dreaming and you realize OH YEA I AM. The first nineteen times this happens, you'll probably wake up out of shock; learning how to become aware without becoming conscious is tricky.

      The tibetan approach seems to be pretty similar mechanically, but completely different philosophically. For one thing, instead of asking "am I dreaming" throughout the day, the practice is to remind yourself "I am dreaming", because buddhist philosophies regard more or less all day-to-day, ego-based experiences of the world as "illusion" (maya). That is, the way we experience reality is viewed as projections of the mind. Another big difference is that Western goals for lucid dreaming generally involve basically hedonistic ideas like "I want to fly!" or "I want to have sex with supermodels!" The tibetan goal is basically to become capable of maintaining a constant awareness during sleep, more or less so that you can meditate while in a dream state. There are some more mystical implications, but some of it gets pretty esoteric and I don't really have the background to comment.

      I've had utterly bizarre manifestations of tinnitus in dreams, especially lucid dreams. Some of them have been helpful, others not so much. Reading too much meaning or epiphany into any particular dream is probably a trap; there's no reason that these experiences are any more or less meaningful than any other experience.
       
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    9. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      Now that my anxiety is under control I would like to dream more lucidly. Before I was being treated for anxiety, it was mostly nightmares, but I'm feeling amazing on my new dose of Paxil.
      I'm interested in what the possibilities are in improving the mind in dreamstate. I made progress in my relative pitch ear training the last time I was dreaming. I could hear multiple notes in the scale more clearly in music, which I could also hear, than if I was awake--and I'm no trained dreamer.
      Also, I didn't know you could do it without taking anything; so cool! Thanks for that. I'm exploring the reddit page now.
       
    10. Jahhsoul
      Curious

      Jahhsoul Member

      Location:
      Spain
      Tinnitus Since:
      9/24/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unkown (not acute acoustic trauma).
      I´m taking NAC, melatonin and Trobalt. Yesterday I had an incredible vivid dream.

      When I have nightmares, or dreams in which I hate the world, my T is high in the morning (like a 4). When I have a placid dream, my T is low (like a 2). The different is high since it is a 50% of reduction. During the day it´s always a 3.

      I think there are much possibilities to use dreams treatments. But is hard do this kind of studies.
       
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    11. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      Sweet! I'm fascinated by it. I'm going to keep putting effort into it. Great to meet some others who are into it:).Feel free to update us with any interesting dream experiences on this thread relative to expanding the mind or tinnitus.
       
    12. Philip

      Philip Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2013
      When I wake I don't have tinnitus it comes on only after I start becoming aware of my surroundings.

      Melatonin is good for vivid dreams and helps me knock off at night.

      Lack of sleep due to tinnitus increases tinnitus which then causes more insomnia.

      This vicious circle is the single worst aspect of tinnitus.

      Your tinnitus is getting worse and you have to endure 8 hours listening to it.

      I find that when its really loud you can't mask it and you are unable to stop trying to find it behind the white noise.

      I regularly exercise to make myself tired at night and take two 3mg melatonin 30 mins before bed for good measure. I have a good rain sound app on my phone which is good at masking it.

      Avoid drugs all drugs...as much as you can. That and regular good sleep reduces anxiety and tinnitus awareness.
       
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    13. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      I'd be a little careful with melatonin; it's absolutely a drug, it's a synthetic hormone. 6mg might actually be overshooting the mark, too; a bunch of studies have shown an inverse relation between dose and effect (less can be more).

      A natural source of melatonin is tart cherry juice, which contains very trace amounts (low-µg range) and has also been shown to be helpful with inflammatory conditions including arthritis :)

      I gave up on trying to mask in bed a long time ago, and actually think my sleep has gotten a lot better as a result.
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    14. Alue

      Alue Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Tinnitus has even invaded my dreams on bad nights.
       
    15. Philip

      Philip Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2013
      Wow that would be awful.

      I was woken once by it two years back during a very bad sinus infection.

      It was like that guy in episode two of the newly rebooted Xfiles series...terrifying isn't the word.

      The pitch was so intense I was shivering with anxiety.

      I hate spikes like that(luckily haven't had many) and I couldn't imagine being able to permanently live like that if they didn't settle down after a day or two.
       
    16. joester

      joester Member

      Location:
      Upstate NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/14/1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Really big explosion.
      Mine does keep me awake and my "sleep" is more like passing out from exhaustion. If I'm lucky I get maybe 5 hours but usually it's only 3 or 4 hours of broken sleep.
      I'm intrugued by this whole concept because I don't usually dream (or remember anyway) so my life is full on T.
       
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    17. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      A couple specific dreams that featured tinnitus have been instructive, and pretty useful in coming to grips with it as well as I have.
       
    18. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
    19. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      I tried taking B-6 again last night, and I remembered a dream!
      What is great about remembering this dream, is I can analyze at what points in the dream I should have become lucid but didn't; and what I can during the day(waking hours) to train for next time.
      So in this case I was driving a car that is currently broken. Why didn't I notice that?! I should have asked myself, "wait...when did the car get fixed?". I was also driving to pick someone up that I never talk to. I never asked myself, "why am I picking this person up?". If I had bothered to ask and answer to those questions correctly, then I could have said, "I am dreaming! Let's make this car fly!".
      NAC is coming in the mail in bulk; I'm stoaked on that.
       
    20. Disculciatus

      Disculciatus Member

      Location:
      D.C.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Not sure - possibly noise, meds, personality - any or all three?
      Question for the Forum - is there any guidance out there on how to begin working with a dream "grammar"? I've long suspected my dream imagery follows a peculiar kind of logic - I just don't how to begin deciphering it.

      Thanks
       
    21. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      You mean insights into your subconscious?
      I believe that most of what goes on with our dreams has to do with memory consolidation, and training our instincts, reinforcing changes that need to be made for survival in the midst of changing of circumstances in our lives.
      If this is true, then it is important to not-read complex messages from simple patterns of survival and memory storage. Don't assume the combination of files pulled from Random Access Memory have special insights into the subconscious; they are after all, random.
      That being said there are things you can glean once you keep that in mind. But the only suggestion I will give you is that, IMO you must start with that understanding.
      Sure, there are patterns of stress relief, significant memories, inner termoil, erotic desire, etc, but I think that stuff is pretty evident.
      If you keep in mind that there is alot of chaff amidst the wheat, I believe you'll be able to see most of what is reasonably considered to be there.
       
    22. Everyloop

      Everyloop Member

      This has my interest actually.
       
    23. Zorro!
      Wtf

      Zorro! Member

      If you want to experience intense, vivid dreams try ZMA at bedtime. It is a nutritional supplement consisting of: Zinc Monomethionine Aspartate, Magnesium Aspartate and Vitamin B6. (y)
       
    24. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Serious monks have a thousand year old dogma which states that there is a deep dream state which enables access to external information.

      That becomes a religious viewpoint, and it's no more possible to apply scientific rigor to it, than any other religious dogma. Since I see myself as an interested empiricist, I have to stop well short of really endorsing such views.

      I will say that I have accessed experiences in dreams which defy my ability to explain them in words... but, that in no way proves anything. Experience is wonder.
       
    25. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      Using NAC i have had a couple vivid dreams. I have learned from them what I need to change in my reality checks. The attitude I have toward them will be the same attitude I have in the dreamstate.

      Believe it or not, in one of my dreams, I practiced the reality checks assuming that I wasn't dreaming; and when the reality checks worked, I concluded that I was able to perform magic in the real world.
      What this means is that my assumptions during the day about how I know I am not dreaming are false, since they don't work in dreamstate. I assumed that because I am receiving direct immediate stimulus to my senses, this must not be a dream(FALSE!), and therefore I need to "practice reality checks", and that is exactly what I did in my dream. I need to become more instinctively aware of why, at this very moment, I am not dreaming.

      Also, to perform many more reality checks per day, I am buying a watch to help me--not practice reality checks but perform reality checks.
      http://www.amazon.com/Casio-AE1200WHD-1A-Stainless-Steel-Digital/dp/B0094B79CI/ref=cts_ap_1_fbt
       
    26. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Are you completely sure you can't? ;)

      I would take the simple fact that you have remembered a dream about reality checking, as a very strong sign that you're on the right track, even if it didn't "work" in terms of making you lucid.
       
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    27. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      @linearb Today I remembered a dream fragment from months ago, and another dream fragment from over a year ago. I don't think I have ever remembered those since I dreamed them. Something is going on in my brain...

      I just came to a realization. In my dreams I will jump forward in the story, and not notice how strange it is that I can just skip time. It doesn't even seem weird at the time. I realized that this is because in waking life I want to skip boring parts of my life, and the dream world lets me get away with that. I totally didn't know that about myself. I can see what people mean about self-discovery and self-awareness being gained through this study.
       
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    28. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      I also I think one reason it is difficult to know that I am dreaming is that in my wake hours as well as dreaming, I "day-dream"(lol?). In my dreams I view myself in hypothetical 3rd person view as an actual 1st person bodiless phantom. The problem is that, at the present time this isn't an effective "dream sign", since I do it so much during the waking hours as well, and so convincingly real; during the day I can be VERY immersed in these. I need to stop doing this during the day, and then it will be an effective dream sign since it will only occur during dream state. When I become consious that I am a 3rd person bodiless phantom/daydreaming in a dream, I will probably have a false awakening from the daydream just as in waking hours; and then a productive, practical dream can begin.

      Isn't that funny? I am an INTP, so i live my life very abstractly and internalized; so it only makes sense that I would be this way in dream state as well.
       
    29. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
      I still have not had a lucid dream, but as the book I am reading confirmed, I had a brush with a DILD(dream-induced lucid dream) experience in the aforementioned dream. This morning I am having brushes with WILD(Wake-Induced Lucid Dream). This is where you enter dreamstate directly from wakestate. A very strange heavy feeling takes over me; my mind is not falling asleep but I am clearly being pulled into dreamstate. I saw a flash of light and some micro visual hallucinations. The feeling of heaviness is like nothing I have ever felt.

      I could have proceeded, further, but I wanted to log my experience first(and quite frankly I'm not sure that I'm ready yet to go through the series of visual and auditory hallucinations that WILD has when I haven't even experienced a DILD yet). As I rolled over, unfolded my tablet and began using it to open this site, I had unprecidented physical sensations of euphoria. All the pixels on the screen were super-sharp. The contrast was more vibrant than I have seen before. I felt great happiness simply to be alive. I will probably do more flirting with WILD just to feel that feeling again(it faded after 1-2min.). It's funny, cause the book gives all these methods for entering WILD; I didn't need them: I just needed to know it was possible, and needed to have my eyes partially covered by my blanket--new piece of the puzzle for me. Although I did have music on and was flirting with the Impossible Movement method(imagine putting your hand through the mattress and once you succeed you are dreaming), so I am probably taking too much credit.

      Getting back to the blanket, I have been having problems with hypnotic jerks(REM atonia), indicating that REM sleep is close, but not being able to fall asleep during that time without something over my eyes(just realized this part). The higher quality and fuller sound of my tablet catches my attention too much also. The lower quality sound coming from voice recorder(sounds like a junky clock radio is playing in the next room/gives you that nostalgia feeling), has many MP3s I loaded onto it(in this case it was a playthrough of Deus Ex that was playing[very comforting for me to listen to, but don't feel compelled to listen to it]). With this combo I started very quickly being pulled into dreamstate. Another reason I did not want to proceed with WILD is I woke up feeling afraid earlier this morning(indication of a nightmare that I didn't remember), and part of that feeling was still with me.

      As I type, good feelings are returning to me in lesser quantities; this probably more ordinary feelings associated with memory of the WILD feelings; but it too feels great, since it is based on such intense original feelings.

      I am pleased to share with you friends, this new experience of mine. I will be posting more updates as they occur.
       
    30. AnxiousJon
      Magical

      AnxiousJon Member

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Anxiety, Insomnia, and a Fan at Night
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