How Do You Know If Sounds Are “Ear-Damaging Loud” or Just “Hyperacusis Loud"?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Asian, May 28, 2015.

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    1. Asian

      Asian Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 weeks
      • Helpful Helpful x 5
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      • Informative Informative x 1
    2. quietatnight
      Frustrated

      quietatnight Member

      Location:
      Rockford IL
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accustic tramma due being too close to a fire craker when I was a kid
      Excellent article, a must read, Thank You for posting Asian

      Louie
       
    3. Nucleo

      Nucleo Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2011
      Good article, altough I'm one that thinks people with hearing problems have some sort of damage up to the point where the auditory system cannot function properly anymore.

      It only makes sense that people like us are more prone to further trauma. After all, healed fractures are also more susceptible to reoccur no?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    4. Asian

      Asian Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 weeks
      Even I choose to believe that we have some degree of ear damage @Nucleo
      Seems the best thing we can do as we all know is give our ears a break for a year atleast but not overprotect them. Just train them and take little risks
       
    5. Very helpful and basically what I have been doing. Sadly though I got hit twice in 2 days by noise trauma. The second being so loud it scared my daughter as well. Today I have spiked t, h and neuralgia again. .People talking makes my ears burn :(
       
    6. japongus

      japongus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      So first the guy overplays the role of the limbic system. Say you cut your leg off, or you break your arm, they're not in the lymbic system, but he marches on regardless.

      So he says sounds that don't damage others won't damage you. What nonsense. Case study 1:

      Me. Went to a concert. Got tinnitus. After that, went to a night club, got hyperacusis. However, before going to the concert, I had been to nightclubs and never got hyperacusis.

      So what's true for those levels of sound, is true for ''everyday'' sounds, just not in the short term, but yes in the medium and long term.

      Then he ends up his article not being sure what to think, whether to cover your ears or not, whether you need a few weeks, months or centuries of covering your ears, whether to cover your ears only when you're in pain or when you're not in pain. Isn't it a bit obvious that if you're no longer in pain you wouldn't cover your ears, or is he encouraging us to uncover our ears because our ''limbic system is playing mind tricks on us''? Maybe he himself is Mr Hyperacusis, the Lizard Chief of the David Icke squad, playing mind games like a 50 year old Madonna singing Like a Virgin?

      Oh and before you say, our limbic systems invent hyperacusis, hyperacusis main feature is denial of hyperacusis in the brain until it becomes evident you do have such a horrifying condition.

      And if it's in the limbic system, why is there round and oval window reinforcement for the treatment of hyperacusis for example.
       
    7. Asian

      Asian Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 weeks
      I have read several posts where people claimed that they got rid of hyperacusis when they stopped overprotecting their ears and moved on in life without paying much attention to it. Obviously the guy in the post isn't saying to just ignore it as if nothing has happened. I think he meant that we should not make hyperacusis the centre of our world or else it will consume our lives and become more of an emotional problem than being only physical (of course there is some damage inside our ears we all know that). I think the generally accepted rule is take little risks and try to retrain our ears to little louder sounds thereby desensitize them slowly and gradually. And when there is obvious discomfort beyond tolerance , just stick your fingers inside your ears. Its that simple
       
    8. japongus

      japongus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Probably had minor hyperacusis all along. Told by ENTs obsessed with the lymbic system that getting hit by those occasional sounds wouldn't worsen them (not true at all, it's probably a worsening that isn't immediately perceptible), and then they say ''moved on with my life''. Its a fallacy. Like when they give a Tinnitus person 6000 euro sound generator and he realises it's a sound like any other in nature, that's coping with the injury, not curing the injury and it ruins the results. All the double blind studies I've read about TRT fail.

      I'd like to see how far Hazell and Jastreboff would make it with their ''flight or fight response'' and ''brain plasticity'' and ''prehistoric man was more worried while in silence than with sounds'' ridiculousconceptdropping if

      1. they hadn't added CBT to TRT to manipulate the positive results of TRT.
      2. they hadn't added patented pharma drugs for the same.
      3. if we all lived in the 1871 Paris Commune.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    9. japongus

      japongus Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Another hilarious thing TRT people yabber on about is something along the lines of how when we're asleep we don't hear tinnitus, therefore it proves it's in the brain. Or how we only hear the fridge if it's the foreground sound. This is absolute nonsense of course, and as someone with severe hyperacusis, I can tell you everything wakes me up, getting to sleep is a real challenge not to mention combining it with waking hours that are silent, and that yes I am 300% sure that it's the hyperacusis that wakes me up way more easily than other people wake up, which is why I have to use a fan to sleep, covered with a shirt, or a recording thereof, so that exterior sounds are drowned out. All I got from one TRT doc was rhetoric about how it was my brain that was perceiving a crappy fan to not be a constant sound, that it wasn't the crappy fan, or the crappy blank noise but my perception of it, what nonsense. See that's the way TRT doctors manufacture their consent by fishing from their hairy brained models and frantically trying to discard anything that proves them wrong.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    10. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Reading through the article again, I guess the place that I think the author goes off the rails is in assuming that an excessive limbic response to an ordinary stimulus, can't be neurotoxic to some degree through excitotoxicity. That is, even if a sound doesn't do direct damage to the ears, if any stimulus causes enough stress to release a ton of glutamate into the nervous system, then there may be neurotoxicity from that. Stress is very, very bad for you.

      That said, "overprotecting", whatever that means, is probably an excellent way to cultivate or exacerbate an excessive limbic response to a stimulus. So, it's a bit of a catch-22, I guess.
       
    11. quietatnight
      Frustrated

      quietatnight Member

      Location:
      Rockford IL
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accustic tramma due being too close to a fire craker when I was a kid
      Does anyone else have problem with things around the house seem to be getting louder just about everyday ? My computer seems louder, and my refridgerator sounds louder every time I go into the kitchen ? WTF is going on ?

      It's just crazy I haven't been near any loud sounds. It's so weird.

      Even my furance sounds louder. It's just nuts and driving me up a wall.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    12. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Sounds like hyperacusis for sure.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    13. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      Since getting H again in december it has gotten worse and i can give examples: dec/ i would watch tv with a volume of 12 , feb decreased to 9, march 7 april 5 may 3-5... My tolerance is going way down to fast and its due to exposure to noise in my case thats how bad my H is. When someone turns my doorknob i hear it, when someone sneezes in the living room i hear it , a soda can pop from living room to my room.. My shoulder popping loudly which happens very frequently.. Everything talking too much and i talk very silent. And as a result my T is just catastrophic and just getting worse this H from hell or watever this is its killing me little by little... I had mild h before it not as bad just some ear pain and more things a little amplified but it never increased my T so i dont know what i have now.. We had. Relocate our ac system it was on top of the house and i could hear it loudly and it vibrating it would make my ears so hot and irritate them now its on the side of the house .. But now i have anoter issue the back neighborhs ac i hear theough my window its very loudly it gets me everyday..
       
    14. Telis

      Telis Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Calgary
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Sounds as though your hearing is getting better, that's definitely not H. Your hearing won't be amplified in any way with H, however your tolerance for sound will be reduced.
       
    15. dan
      Chatty

      dan Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2011
      relocate their ac to the other side of their house...
       
    16. quietatnight
      Frustrated

      quietatnight Member

      Location:
      Rockford IL
      Tinnitus Since:
      1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accustic tramma due being too close to a fire craker when I was a kid
      @Geo

      I totally understand what your going through, I have the same problem. Everything seems to be getting louder by the day. What are we going to have to do ? Build a sound proof room and stay in it 24/7 ? I have been seriously considering that. I'm at the end of my rope and I know it. There is just so much we can change in our lives to accomidate this crazy hyperacusis and tinnitus. Where are we all going to end up ? Can't keep living like that's for sure.

      Sorry to be so negetive but I am very worried about tommroow we won't even talk about the next 10 or 20 years.

      I'm so Fustraited, I worked so hard my entire life so I could retire early and I did so I could enjoy the rest of my life and now 3 years into retirement and I'm standing in a black hole. Life is just not fair

      Very depressing I feel so cheated, I'm sure a lot of you feel the same way. And I feel bad for you people too.

      Just so crazy
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    17. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      That is H thats how i am espescially when ive been exposed my tolerance is to the ground and everything is more amplified...
       
    18. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      Im not made out of money
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    19. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Oh, geo...How can we help you? Hyperacusis isn't curable...Only keppra and trobalt at the moment has managed to help people with hyperacusis. That's not me just saying that, that's others. There's nothing else sadly, unless you want a white noise generator, that is, if white noise doesn't react with your tinnitus?
       
    20. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      Me and my family are considering moving from our loud neighborhood as that is the reason my T and H have been getting so bad ... Were looking into gated communites that are quiet but who knows man thats a lot of money but if we dont do something fast and i keep getting exposed im toast i can barely take my ringing it is too much way too much...and the bad H is just hell .. I need a miracle
       
    21. Geo

      Geo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      That generator isnt going to mask this beast and only set it off... Ive had hyperacusis before but not to this degree.. It went away in three months last year.. No one else here has had their H vanished before or am i the only one?
       
    22. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I know the generator made mine worse. Look, would you give keppra a go for at least two months. Others are seeing improvement. I just want you to get better, I'm really concerned for your wellbeing.
       
    23. Telis

      Telis Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Calgary
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Sounds are not amplified mate, otherwise your hearing would be better than most people's? I highly doubt this is possible. Its just your perception that things are louder because of your extreem sensitivity and low tolerance. I have the same man, I know what's it's like. A plate touching the counter, a light switch, someone clearing their throat. Trust me man, I know what you are going though. You aren't talking to someone that doesn't have this problem as well.
       
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    24. iAzra
      Dreaming

      iAzra Member

      Location:
      Croatia
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma, Stress, Nose hit
      I loved this article until I read "In contrast to the above sustained sound levels, a sudden, sharp, sound, if loud enough, can cause instantaneous damage." Basically everything said about not protecting nd not worrying is flushed down with this statement :(
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    25. Gosia
      Balanced

      Gosia Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      earplugs/ hearing loss
      Seemingly good article but still doesn't answer the main question : which loud is too loud ? It repeats the same old thing : ' protect ears around 'loud' noises''. Isn't loud really relative ? Surem we can have an app, but how can we know they are reliable ? And mostly, all the advice is useless if we consider that everybody has a different treshold at which their hearing can be damaged - that means we know nothing. The only really helpful thing would be to be able to check at which sound level our personal ears risk hurting and then knowing exactly how loud what is. Otherwise it's a constant russian roulet. That's why some chose to protect always - just in case, but we read all the time this is wrong and will worsen our condition. That's one vicious cirle! The only ocnslusion is we're constantly taking the risk.
      Knowing all that I chose a method which seems to be acclaimed in this article - rather than earplugs I use my fingers, constantly. When I'm on a loud bus - the voulem jumps constantly. The bus stops at the traffic light and the noised drops to 60. It would be stupid to protect ears from 60 db. So what I do is I cover and uncover the ears all the time. But then again I wonder - won't it confuse my brain even more? There seem not to be a satisfing answer. Avoiding anything loud and not having to wonder all the time seems to be the best choice. I took a loud bus today twice and I'm having a spike. I'm wondering - because of acoustic trauma? I don't think so - I measured the sound, I had ear plugs for the overall of 50mins in. It was the first time since the onset I have taken a bus for so long - and it seems I shouldn't have. If there were at least examples of 'loud noises to avoid' except from the obvious ones, that would really be welcome.
       
    26. Asian

      Asian Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      4 weeks
      I have always wondered if traffic horns are loud enough to cause damage. My country is too noisy and there are cars and trucks honking everywhere. Should I be concerned?
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    27. Gosia
      Balanced

      Gosia Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      earplugs/ hearing loss
      Pity this kind of threads die fast :( I'd like to know as well, Asian.
       
    28. here2help

      here2help Member

      @Asian, traffic horns are not loud enough to cause damage to the auditory system.

      @Gosia, overprotecting the ears is not a good strategy. Over time, it can lead to increased sensitivity to sound. Covering and uncovering your ears “all the time” is not a good approach. Taking a bus ride will not damage your ears. I suggest you only wear hearing protection if you are in a setting where you have to raise your voice a lot in order for someone standing next to you to hear you. This is also true for people who do not have tinnitus or hyperacusis.

      @Geo, it is fairly common when someone has minor hyperacusis for it to completely resolve over time provided he or she doesn’t overprotect and is exposed to normal sound over several months. I’m sorry to learn that you have been having a rough time. Would you say a little about what steps you are taking to help mitigate your decreased sound tolerance?

      @quietatnight, you mentioned that normal sounds in your home seem louder to you. Do you spend a lot of time in a quiet environment?

      @Danny Boy, in some cases, hyperacusis is curable. In most cases, hyperacusis can be greatly improved with desensitization therapy. I’m not aware of a single study that concludes keppra, the antiepileptic drug you mentioned, has helped anyone with hyperacusis. The second drug you mentioned, which is now called Ezogabine, is an extremely dangerous drug that can cause retinal abnormalities and vision loss.

      @japongus, the limbic system plays an important role for most people with hyperacusis, only it is not the role that Dr. Bauman ascribes to it in this article. Sounds that do no damage to the auditory systems of people who do not have hyperacusis will not damage people who have hyperacusis. Neither Cognitive Behavioral Therapy nor drugs have been added to TRT by Dr. Jastreboff or Mr. Hazell.

      @iAzra, the key words to focus on in what you quoted are IF LOUD ENOUGH. Most sudden, sharp sounds, even if very loud, do not cause damage.

      Dr. Bauman is the author of a misleading and inaccurate piece on ototoxic drugs. In the article posted in this thread, Dr. Bauman claims the limbic system adjusts the volume of what a person with hyperacusis hears. This isn’t correct. His suggestion that a person with hyperacusis should remain in relative quiet for several months “to heal” is also incorrect, in my opinion, and counterproductive.

      here2help
       
      • Like Like x 1
    29. Zimichael

      Zimichael Member Benefactor

      Location:
      N. California
      Tinnitus Since:
      (1956) > 1980 > 2006 > 2012 > (2015)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ac. Trauma & Ac.Trauma + Meds.
      Ha ha... Goof grief..."A traffic horn is not loud enough to cause damage to the auditory system". Oh my goodness. What country are we talking about? Here in America if it's a "car horn", this is a ludicrous statement. Try standing within 30 feet of just the "blip" of a horn when someone presses their auto-lock remote (where I can't see them in time) in a parking lot. I'm talking 'micro-blip' of a horn, not a normal blast as in: Get out of the road Jerk!

      Sigh! Maybe I should not bother to look back in on threads any more...

      Zimichael
       
      • Winner Winner x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
    30. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      East Coast USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1998
      Obviously there is variation, but car horns in general are in the 95-105 db range, which is annoying but not especially worrying unless you're right next to it and running it for minutes at a time.

      Is there any actual data to support the idea that people with hyperacusis are prone to actual damage from sounds which are not damaging to other people? I cannot find any.
       
      • Agree Agree x 2

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