In Need of Some Opinions! How Can We Be Sure What We Hear Is Real?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Georgia, Aug 29, 2015.

tinnitus forum
    1. Georgia
      Thinking

      Georgia Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      So I decided to do my speech on either 'the law on drink driving in the UK is not adequate' and 'If a tree crashes down in the forest with no one to hear it does it make a sound?'
      The drink drive thing is kind of the back up plan incase this one isn't the right choice. I chose the tree one because I thought as a tinnitus sufferer it really relates to me, I constantly question observation and reality and what they both are and how are they actually different.

      So I need you guys to tell me if you ever wonder that your tinnitus relates to the whole tree thing, that you can't quite work out if its real because the idea of it is built off what we hear that no one else can, and even though this forum proves that other people have it so it must be reality but then everyones is different so how can we ever be sure? I really need these opinions as apart of my research and sources! Having peoples voices in here about how they feel about tinnitus and how that relates to is it real? Observation or reality? would be really incredible for my work :)

      I know some people will think 'but if you hear it it is reality. period' however If you think about it like this you can't help but question it. What distinguishes reality from observation aren't they the same because everyones reality is based on their observation and opinion, and also to prove something is real more than one person needs to confirm right? Or we don't know if its just us. I know this is weird but I'd really love some opinions! Thanks!!!
       
    2. Quentino
      Tired

      Quentino Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Decrease of Hearing i presume.
      I... don't understand what you say. You ask if what we hear is real?

      Because our hearing is just the interpretation of sounds by our body, and sounds are waves ( so they exist)
      But T is not real : it's our body that send an incorrect interpretation to our brain ( in most cases, i exclude objective T).
       
    3. Georgia
      Thinking

      Georgia Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Thanks! I know its really confusing but over all my question is tinnitus objectively real? Or even subjectively real? What makes it different to the tree question? I'm hoping that this will be a really good speech once I'm done with research and prep work :)
       
    4. tinnitussufferer
      Angry

      tinnitussufferer Member

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2004
      of course its real. We just cant measure it
       
    5. Quentino
      Tired

      Quentino Member

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Decrease of Hearing i presume.
      Well Tinnitus is a sensation so it's subjective, i mean only you can feel it.

      It's objective in the way that for exemple, i have my T because of music. This music altered my body and my body has produced T. Do there is a real physical aspects.

      It's an information like other sounds, but it's own origin is not by sound waves, but by a dysfunction of our hearing system. So it's a real sensation, but a false sound.

      You're discussing about " what is real" a little ^^
       
    6. Georgia
      Thinking

      Georgia Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Yeah overall I'm going for 'how do you distinguish reality from observation?' but think T and the tree idea are good ways of questioning it. T is a more real way of addressing it as I know people with it and have it myself and the tree subject is a way of being a bit more philosophical.

      Thanks for taking your time to help! My t wasn't caused by noise trauma so its bit confusing as to why I have it! Thats why I always wonder if its real!
       
    7. passerby
      Lurking

      passerby Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      God only knows...
      Okay... so this is pretty straightforward: when a tree crashes, it does not produce a sound, it produces a sound wave. Sound is something which is perceived. If there is no one around to perceive the sound wave, then there is no sound.

      a (concerned) passerby
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    8. Georgia
      Thinking

      Georgia Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I'm arguing for and against the question and using real life experiences that relate to the idea of reality and observation like the purpose of the speech is to question the differences between reality and observation T and the tree thing are two of things I'm using to build my speech off. In fact I'm going to change the speech title t something more fitting! thnx for ur reply!
       
    9. passerby
      Lurking

      passerby Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      God only knows...
      I think you need to look into some basic differences in clinical diagnostics between tinnitus patients and non-tinnitus patients. Key words: fMRI, highres EEG scans, prof. Jeanmonod, brai2n clinic.

      If you do, then you will see that it is real.

      a (concerned) passerby
       
    10. Georgia
      Thinking

      Georgia Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I see your point its just the reason why I'm considering t as apart of my speech is because I have no results to prove my T so all I have to say I have it is t and a hearing problem no irregular scans etc so the question is more around the observation I have made that I have it and is that observation reality when no one else can hear it therefore no one else can back up my observation with their own to make a reality. I know its kinda strange but I decided I should try and go really out there!
      I'm going to rename it 'Are observation and reality different?'
       
    11. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      If someone tells me their head hurts, I don't have to observe bleeding or actually feel their pain to believe that their head in fact hurts. Tinnitus, for most people afflicted with it, is a subjective observation/experience. What we perceive, if we are mentally sane, is in fact reality. I don't doubt for a moment that the sounds I perceive are very similar to the sounds that many other people with tinnitus perceive. For example, the Sounds of Tinnitus video makes this quite clear.

      British Tinnitus Association - Sounds of Tinnitus


      Also see my sig line. You could justifiably modify it to say, "Tinnitus is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one."
       
    12. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      I know exactly what you mean Georgia and I asked a very similar question on here myself not that long ago. What you are asking is very philosophical and very much in the same realm as Descartes 'I think therefore I am' quote. It all boils down to perception, and anything that involves the most complicated organ in the universe is always difficult.

      I'll go deeper down the rabbit hole by adding that anything we do in this world regardless of tinnitus is routed through our brain. It's hard to describe what I am about to say but I'll give it a go. How can you prove anything is real let alone tinnitus? As quantum mechanics would suggest; how can you prove the moon still exists if you're not looking at it? Furthermore, getting more philosophical; would the universe still exist if there were no intelligent minds within it to perceive it? All this kind of stuff fascinates me and I've always said that science is flawed in huge way, because of the fact that we measure and test everything through the bias of our conciousness. We can never step outside of our conscious mind to truly test or measure anything accurately. Our reality is no more than our own conscious thoughts. Real deep stuff I know, but getting back to tinnitus, of course it's real to the sufferers because we hear it. It's in our brain, it's there, and we perceive it as real. But what exactly is reality anyway or conciousness for that matter? It's probably one of sciences biggest questions.
       
    13. tinnitussufferer
      Angry

      tinnitussufferer Member

      Location:
      UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2004
      The same way you would prove it if you were looking at it?

      obviously. Do you think the universe didn't exist until human beings came along?
       
    14. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      How about "the experience of tinnitus is real"?
       
    15. Ed209

      Ed209 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2015
      Tinnitus sufferer, I don't think you understand what I'm saying. Firstly the moon thing is based on a famous scientific battle that went on for decades between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr. I used the moon as Einstein has a famous quote using that very example.

      It boils down to the nature of reality and how the quantum world operates. Things are generally only real when they are observed, in science it's generally referred to as the act of making a measurement. Look into superposition, especially the double slit experiment to see this in an actual real life experiment.

      I highly recommend you watch all of this video:
      Dr Quantum - Double Slit Experiment


      It's also like 'Schrodingers cat', Erwin Schrodingers famous thought experiment goes into similar territory. It's hugely thought provoking stuff.

      The universe thing I mentioned cannot be brushed aside so easily, as everything you know is in your own mind/consciousness; how do you know anything exists outside of it? If you don't understand where I'm
      Coming from its hard to explain, but it's a question that scientists have been battling with since the dawn of human existence.

      How can something exist if it cannot be observed in any way? Think about it for a moment. Then try to imagine absolutely nothing, complete nothingness. It's impossible.
       
    16. valeri

      valeri Member Benefactor Team Awareness

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2011
      @Georgia

      Do you have or "have" tinnitus?
       

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