Pitch and Loudness from Tinnitus in Individuals with Noise-Induced Hearing Loss

Discussion in 'Research News' started by beeeep, Aug 9, 2016.

tinnitus forum
    1. beeeep

      beeeep Member

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      ~2000, but real bad since 06/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Wow, didn't expect this:

      I haven't read the full study yet, but if anyone's interested, it's available online.
       
      • Like Like x 1
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    2. grate_biff
      No Mood

      grate_biff Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      aucustic trauma, benzo withdrawl or both
      "We did not observe an association between hearing loss and tinnitus pitch."
      Wtf does that mean?
       
    3. lapidus

      lapidus Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      My guess is they mean that the hypothesis is that your T frequency is the same frequency you've lost hearing on?
       
    4. grate_biff
      No Mood

      grate_biff Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      aucustic trauma, benzo withdrawl or both
      Isn´t that what they are NOT saying? Wich is baffeling to me!
       
    5. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      "the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus."

      A survey of this participants on this Board may well have shown them that for far less money. It seems a recurring observation here.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    6. lapidus

      lapidus Member

      Location:
      Sweden
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Yeah, that's what I said. They are showing that the hypothesis isn't correct.
       
    7. grate_biff
      No Mood

      grate_biff Member

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      aucustic trauma, benzo withdrawl or both
      Well, they are claiming. Anyway, I think its bullcrap!
       
    8. MakeItStop

      MakeItStop Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Gun Fire
      This might be dumb but if your T ringing is louder because of lesser damage to hair cell, what if you just removed that damaged hair cell or hair cells to make your T minimal or even non-existent. But then, maybe your brain would compensate for that lost signal or frequency and you would still have T. I wouldn't mind going 10% deaf for some silence...just saying.
       
    9. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      33 patients is hardly statistically significant.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    10. Nick Pyzik
      Depressed

      Nick Pyzik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/23/15
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
      YES. 100% agree with the words in bold. I was stating that a few weeks ago to a friend on here. I'm glad there's a study speaking about it now.
       
    11. Nick Pyzik
      Depressed

      Nick Pyzik Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      6/23/15
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Listening to in-ear headphones & playing in a band
      There is too much hype on sensory hair cells because they are the leading front-runners of our hearing. Just because animals can regenerate their damaged sensory hair cells doesn't mean it's the key to a human hearing better. The brain is all processing. The neurons and nerve fibers are what conduct this specific processing task. The chemicals involved in our auditory processing could be the key to hearing better.
       
    12. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      Not so dumb. This could well explain why many of us retain adequate hearing per audiogram, but also find that our hearing is distorted and ear-tearingly uncomfortable. The cell isn't dead but being damaged, is it misfiring? I doubt there would be a viable way to remove damaged hair cells, short of sacrificing the total hearing in the affected ear.
       
    13. Ian Mac

      Ian Mac Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Vestibular Nueritis, loud music (dubstep)
      I got bilateral tinnitus from loud music in 2011. In 2015 I contracted labrythitis in my left ear. My left ear only functions at 45% of what my right ear, and I have hearing loss in the high frequencies in my left ear. I have noticed that my tinnitus is much less intense, quieter, stable, consistent on the left but my right ear has a cocaphapny of beeps and bird chirps with crickets, I can't sleep on my right ear because the noises are so loud. I would say that yes true hearing loss stops tinnitus which is WHY WE ALL ASK TO CUT THE NERVE but we're stuck in this stupid "brain ringing paradigm, where you go to your doctor explain that there's a problem in your ears and he tells you sorry it's in your brain and I don't work on the brain, but this research would suggest otherwise... QUICK cover this research up before ENT's and otologists have to actually work. Brain ringing is so convenient because then doctors can all just throw up their hands and say "fuck it, I'm not a brain doctor."
       
      • Like Like x 1
    14. MakeItStop

      MakeItStop Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Gun Fire
      Yea, it's just crazy how much people don't understand tinnitus, including myself. This would be definitely an unconventional way of going about it, but for guys who have noise induced tinnitus, I would really not mind not hearing a certain frequency if I did not have hear my tinnitus ringing forever. I think it comes down finding the source of tinnitus, if your hair cells are sending messed up signals to the brain, locate those cells, and remove them and bam, no more tinnitus.....(in a perfect world, might not work). If your auditory nerve is damaged then it might be a different story where the only solution would be to cut that nerve.
       
    15. Vaba
      Shitfaced

      Vaba Member

      Location:
      New New York
      Tinnitus Since:
      Unknown
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown. Gradual, Progressive
      Bizarrely, many people (something like 33%) who have their auditory nerves cut retain the tinnitus, but go deaf. There's definitely some component of T in the brain...
       
      • Agree Agree x 2
    16. Mricha37

      Mricha37 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Car subwoofers for 6 years
      At this point I don't give 2 poos about my T. I just want a normal hearing threshold. Bring on the hearing regeneration tests!
       
    17. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      my guess is this test is essentially flawed. audiograms that go to 8k wont show the true hearing damage. high pitched sounds cut through all and thus cant be masked easily, and end up seeming "louder".
       
    18. Ian Mac

      Ian Mac Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Vestibular Nueritis, loud music (dubstep)
      I'm not one of those 33% brain ringing weirdos!
       
    19. Vaba
      Shitfaced

      Vaba Member

      Location:
      New New York
      Tinnitus Since:
      Unknown
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown. Gradual, Progressive
      Firstly, they're not weirdos. I want to clarify that those who have brain-centralized NIHL make up a large portion of our community.

      Secondly, I am in the same boat as you. The sounds in both of my ears are VASTLY different from one another - my left ear rings loudly in a pure tone, the right ear warbles shrilly in an unexplained low-pitched cacophony of noise - despite having NO SIGNIFICANT HEARING LOSS.
       
    20. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise..no idea.. unicorns?
      Have you done an audiogram up to 16,000hz? Have a read about "hidden hearing loss". The vast majority of people with Tinnitus will have hearing loss; just our current testing methods are not geared towards tinnitus; but selling hearing aids. Remember the hearing loss is not just noise induced :) Tinnitus is a symptom of an underlying hearing abnormality.
       
    21. Vaba
      Shitfaced

      Vaba Member

      Location:
      New New York
      Tinnitus Since:
      Unknown
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown. Gradual, Progressive
      I have indeed had a 16kHz hearing test. Here it is. As you can see, my hearing does not even BEGIN to decrease until 16kHz. (The chart says Hz, it means kHz.) I have also had ABRs and an OAE, all normal.
       

      Attached Files:

    22. Ian Mac

      Ian Mac Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Vestibular Nueritis, loud music (dubstep)
      They don't test for any of the frequencies involved in music, they don't test barely anything! Heavy Bass hearing loss specifically you won't see on hearing tests but causes high pitched T. They don't test low frequency bass tones because they aren't "necessary" because they are not a part of speech. As long as you can hear tones associated with the limited range of frequencies which people talk you are considered "normal hearing" even if you CANT enjoy/hear music or understand it.
       
    23. Kane Moffat
      Badass

      Kane Moffat Member

      Location:
      Glasgow, Scotland
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      Incredible how much we are finding out about tinnitus.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    24. GregCA
      Crappy

      GregCA Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      From my perspective, we're not finding nearly enough.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    25. Ian Mac

      Ian Mac Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2011
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Vestibular Nueritis, loud music (dubstep)
      No silly it's your brain
       
    26. ofaisalo
      Fine

      ofaisalo Member

      Location:
      dubai
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
      "the greater the hearing loss, the lower the loudness of tinnitus"

      --

      I don't know what to say about this
      is it good or bad :(
       
    27. Foncky
      Doubtful

      Foncky Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      An explosion, music, and fate.
      Totally.

      Any panel with less than 1000 people is hardly reliable.
       
    28. Optic Axis
      Tired

      Optic Axis Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1994
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music and industrial machines.
      My tinnitus has increased in volume over the past few years. I saw an audiologist a few weeks ago and he wanted to check my hearing again. He said my hearing has become worse in the past two years, more than he would have thought it would.

      I wondered if it was a genuine deterioration, or if my tinnitus volume has increased so much that it 'cancels out' the sound I should be hearing, and so if I didn't have tinnitus I would actually hear the sound.

      It was quite hard to keep concentrating on what might be coming through the headphones.
       
    29. Kane Moffat
      Badass

      Kane Moffat Member

      Location:
      Glasgow, Scotland
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2015
      I remember a post where you had figured all this out yourself about all the supporting cells before this article was published.. Good job mate.

      This makes me wonder now though all these people celebrating how there T went away or they had a 'success story', they could just have even more degenerated nerves.
       
      • Like Like x 2
    30. Rings-a-Bell

      Rings-a-Bell Member

      Location:
      Barbados
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Accoustic Trauma
      My hearing loss is around 4000hz. My primary T pitch is also around 4000hz. That being said I have a secondary at 13500hz. I don't think I have much hearing loss there---not because the audiologist tested it (their tests only go to 8000hz)--- but because I can hear it quite well using sound frequency generators on the internet. There is no large dip in volume like I have at 4000hz. In fact I can hear up to 15500hz just fine (which is pretty good for a 45 year old). So there you have it, an example of T that matches hearing loss pitch and one that doesn't... all from the same ear.
       

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