Somatic Tinnitus Causes (TMJ, Neck, etc.): Is There a Way to Tell?

[just1morething]

@just1morething did it help your tinnitus?

I was doing better today anyway. I could have had a spinal injection or TMJ, it was my choice. I will update in a couple days. Sorry you're doing bad @KWC. I know what that's like.

 

[just1morething]

Found him on TMJ Facebook:

https://sleepandtmjtherapy.com/our-team/

 

[Greg Sacramento]

One thing I have noticed with me is about 1/2 inch below my ear lobe on my neck at the back of my jawline I can feel a very tight hard lump. When I press on it pain reverberates up into my ear and around my eyes. I think that is a strong possibility that it is also related to my tinnitus. I included a picture of the location.

It could relate to many things. I would consider examination with an ENT for ears and oral dentist for mouth.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento thank you.

Hope you are doing well yourself.

Ken

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC In using several symptom and diagnostic tools, with description of TMJ - muscles, swelling and what you mention below:

When I press on it pain reverberates up into my ear and around my eyes. I think that is a strong possibility that it is also related to my tinnitus. I included a picture of the location.

Answer most given:
Possible likely swollen jaw (muscles) with fluid causing a node that can be caused by: viral infection, but more likely bacterial, from abscessed tooth or a salivary gland problem if not just muscle swelling. A salivary gland problem could be caused from trauma do to swelling - doubtful that a stone has formed. Middle ear infection may be doubtful, but ear and dental examination is needed. Also mentioned, as I mentioned before, a splint that covers wisdom teeth or too thick could increase a swollen jaw.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento thank you. Going to see a ENT on Monday. Area feels very sore. If a lymph node when pressing on it pain reverberates through my head. The splints (8 weeks) seem to be helping the pain I have in the TMJ joint area itself. My tinnitus seems like it has gotten worse and louder. (due to splints... not sure). No teeth pain. More of a high pitch hiss. If I do something to flex muscles in that area right under ear (jaw/tongue) movement the tinnitus increases in sound. Was doing sound enrichment now a having to mask more...

@just1morething hope your shot helped.

Ken

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC There are many ways that TMJ can happen, but the best source of major overall simple explanation that I have found is in the link - post #35 within this thread.

I weeded out about 20 studies from a research list of about 500 good studies on the causes of TMJ/D and with tinnitus Some of these studies have pages of involvement and some of their studies and thoughts is most interesting.

One study has the best focus on the pros and cons of splints and mouth appliances. Another study on the pros and cons on removal of wisdom teeth. TMJ often only causes a mild hiss, but certain components with structural input of muscles and nerves from the jaw and teeth to the eardrum and with/or C spine input that pressures neck muscles (whiplash or posture) can cause a very high somatic pitch.

There are several hundred ways that the mouth and face can associate to tinnitus. The neck alone can cause tinnitus, but sometimes there's injury to the slider - hinges of neck and jaw - that can interfere with anything above the shoulders. Whiplash, posture, neck muscle strain - spasms and or having mouth open to wide is often a problem. This can cause all sort of problems with anything else above the shoulders as well. Mouth bacteria can increase problems.

Ken, since you have swelling, and a node, your TMJ may be from forward disc movement with muscle pulling. Tinnitus then may be from the tiny nerves that connect the the discs to the eardrum or from bacteria getting trapped. I do question your splints increasing tinnitus, but it's hard to know if more splint time may also be needed until your joints adjust.

I use to visit a dental site where dentist had discussed so many thing that relate to jaw, mouth, face and neck. Several dentist said that they schedule longer appointments for those with tinnitus. They make sure that a pillow is comfortable for neck, that the mouth is often rested, that drilling is done off and on and as little pressure as possible is made to the lower front.

I have posted most on what I feel is important with physical tinnitus to date. I have as least shared thousands of studies on physical tinnitus and read each new study of the last four years. I wish @Hazel that I could be a team member with compiling data and resource, but with my health conditions for this type of timely involvement and to commit would be difficult for me. I have studied hypertension and many of the problems that it can cause since the age of 15. It's not so weird that I have become a victim to this - it's in my genes.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething hope your shot helped.

Seems to help for a couple days. Now I'm back to static crap. I think I'll try prolotherapy to my left jaw a few times. Noise seems to be in both ears now. Sure wish I could shut it off.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Seems to help for a couple days. Now I'm back to static crap. I think I'll try prolotherapy to my left jaw a few times. Noise seems to be in both ears now.

I know that you read the link I gave you - post #43 - this thread.
It's said that jaw prolotherapy can increase tinnitus 11% of the time and sometimes that can happen in ear on the other side.
Treatment that's not spaced out for a few months, can increase tinnitus more.
Other studies say the same.

 

[just1morething]

I know that you read the link I gave you - post #43 - this thread.
It's said that jaw prolotherapy can increase tinnitus 11% of the time and sometimes that can happen in ear on the other side.
Treatment that's not spaced out for a few months, can increase tinnitus more.
Other studies say the same.

I forgot what your link said. I'll have to look it over and also see what prolotherapy Dr. says. It will be a dextrose solution that creates inflammation to tighten up the joint vs steroid injection that could have reduced inflammation. Not sure if anything will knock out the noise.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento yes you have provided extensive information and I am forever grateful. I applaud your strength and fortitude while dealing with your challenges and at the same time trying to help others. I wish your health was better as well to contribute.

I too have hypertension and take meds for it. In my genes too.

My tinnitus is back to a higher pitch hiss/static today. Monday will be 8 weeks (noted 12-16 weeks) of the splint therapy, still have to ride it out. Still have jaw soreness, less frequent pain around eyes, and not really any focused direct pain over the TMJ joint anymore for the most part. Slowly working on back posture issues (staying away from neck and traps right now as those exercises involve head movement). As noted on Monday getting that area on neck under ear along jawline which I can feel a "lump/knot" and pushed it too hard and felt it move. (figure either a really bad swollen lymph node or a muscle trigger point). Just odd to me to feel pain around eyes when done...but understand referred pain. Hopefully the ENT will want do scan the area to check for those (figure CT scan) and see what the heck it is. If that pursuit does not pan out..then I am riding my TMJ therapy and can only hope over time when addressed tinnitus will calm down or phase out.

Ken

 

[just1morething]

The TMJ is often predisposed to similar degenerative changes and pathologies seen in other synovial joints as a consequence of the frequent and repetitive stresses that the TMJ undergoes. Symptoms commonly associated with TMD include pain at the TMJ, generalized orofacial pain, chronic headaches and ear aches, jaw dysfunction including hyper- and hypo-mobility and limited movement or locking of the jaw, painful clicking or popping sounds with opening or closing of the mouth, and difficulty chewing or speaking. While pain is the most common symptom, some people report no pain, but still have problems using their jaws. Sometimes the bite just feels "off." Additional symptoms may include ringing in the ears, ear pain, decreased hearing, dizziness, and vision problems.

https://www.practicalpainmanagement...ose-prolotherapy-pain-chronic-tmj-dysfunction

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Not sure if anything will knock out the noise.

If your tinnitus is being caused by TMJ and your C5, then these are the results (below - next paragraph) of the above studies for tinnitus reduction. The 11% where tinnitus was made worse was because they didn't have TMJ - non-normal osseous or subchondral defects, nor cortical thickening, and/or wide posterior joint space. From what I understand, your palatal vault is relatively deep and narrow, so prolotherapy probably will help TMJ and maybe tinnitus, if this is cause.

Fourteen patients (20%) responded with a reduction of their tinnitus. These responders rated the amount of relief from their tinnitus (57% good, 14% moderate, and 29% slight). Adverse events of the temporomandibular steroids reported at 7 weeks of follow-up were an increase of the intensity of their tinnitus in 11% of the patients (n=8) and in 3% of the patients side-effects of the steroids.

Addition: From what you previously mention, it seems that your posterior joint space is wide, as well as the mandibular being steep and I would think your gonial angles are obtuse. so treatment is good.

Some with tinnitus have hyperostoses extending from the lingual side of the alveolar ridge in the molar regions. Not sure from studies what part alone of this contributes to tinnitus without other input variables.

 

[KWC]

@just1morething how are you doing?

Me not so well. Pain in jaw, neck and inner ear, ringing and anxiety.

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething how are you doing?

Me not so well. Pain in jaw, neck and inner ear, ringing and anxiety.

Not very good at the moment. If I didn't have the noise some of my other body issues would be easier to handle.

 

[KWC]

@just1morething @Greg Sacramento how are you guys doing, hopefully better?

Latest and greatest on me is that I saw my ENT for the lump/knot under my ear and he had no idea. They ran another hearing test and at my age said it was ok. Asked about white noise generators and all they had were Widex hearing aids with Zen Noise for $3,000 each. Had a soft tissue scan done of my neck and the results were clear, showed nothing beyond C5-C6 degenerative changes in spine.

So the lump, knot kinda lost where to go next... guess I could go to a orthopedist who specializes in spine/neck and see what he says. Would not say very painful to the touch but a bit of soreness when I do.

My TMJ doctor said he thinks I am progressing well with splints... little over 9 weeks in, and slowly doing posture exercises. Still have soreness in the capsule area and some days are better than others.

My tinnitus is still the same generally speaking. During the day I have to play background sound noise enrichment (basically a crackling fire sound).

At nighttime I run a sound machine and other background noises to help me sleep. That coupled with sleep meds/melatonin I get decent sleep.

No idea what else to try to resolve tinnitus now but to ride out the TMJ treatment.

The TMJ doctor said I could pursue more cold laser therapy on my TMJ to help/speed up but am unsure if I should pursue. Have you guys had experience with that?

Ken

 

[KWC]

@just1morething @Greg Sacramento

The TMJ doctor said I could pursue more cold laser therapy on my TMJ to help/speed up but am unsure if I should pursue. Have you guys had experience with that or know if it serves benefit to have?

Thanks,
Ken

 

[Greg Sacramento]

The TMJ doctor said I could pursue more cold laser therapy on my TMJ to help/speed up but am unsure if I should pursue.

Hi @KWC

Here are some studies - different results. You could just read the summaries without reading each complete study. This would take about ten minutes. Cold Laser helps with pain, but does less for muscles.

http://www.tmj.org/site/page?pageId=432

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento thank you, will look. Pain is mild to moderate... interested to see if helps with quicker healing and inflammation reduction.

How are you doing?

 

[just1morething]

@just1morething @Greg Sacramento

The TMJ doctor said I could pursue more cold laser therapy on my TMJ to help/speed up but am unsure if I should pursue. Have you guys had experience with that or know if it serves benefit to have?

Thanks,
Ken

I tried a little cold laser with no real positive results. My best results was from TMJ steroid injections but someone said not to have them done often. I think prolotherapy to my left TMJ is my next step. I did try it once in the past but was recently told to do it several times to get maximum effect.

I have been having annoying static lately. Glad to hear you are doing some better @KWC but I'm sure you want the noise gone like me. You could try a steroid injection to your affected jaw and see if you get at least temporary relief. I will update if I try multiple prolotherapy injections to my left jaw. I really don't know what else to do other than some type of surgery. The splint does not seem to help me a lot.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@KWC @just1morething
Recently read that just1morething is listed 26th of the most famous television lines.

Many of my postings are based on the research of Araz Server, which in my opinion is the smartest somatic researcher of all time. His theories of somatic physical tinnitus from origin often begin when the head was forced to be hyperextended causing neck muscle spasms. From this, vein and arteries can be damaged, a straighten C spine, arthritis, TMJ, clenching, eye problems. hearing loss, and about 5000 other conditions where some can cause, relate to, or develop from hypertension and thus pulsatile tinnitus. Very few end up with somatic tinnitus from any of this, but the ones that do get somatic tinnitus from something, an over hyperextended neck often happened first.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento @just1morething

Thanks for the feedback and info. Hope you guys are doing ok. On the downside right now. So angry and frustrated.

I tried a little cold laser with no real positive results. My best results was from TMJ steroid injections but someone said not to have them done often. I think prolotherapy to my left TMJ is my next step. I did try it once in the past but was recently told to do it several times to get maximum effect.

I am not expecting much and signed up for 4 treatments to see. Mainly interested for pain and inflammation. Out of pocket cost. My TMJ doctor said he only does steroid injections for people in severe pain. @just1morething like you not sure what much else to try. 9 weeks into splint therapy, paid for it so will keep going. Pain/soreness mainly in TMJ joint.

@Greg Sacramento still very perplexed on the lump/knot under my ear on the jawline. CT soft tissue scan with contrast of neck showed nothing (no large nodes, but it is definitely hard, not sore to the touch, as as I understand muscle trigger points it creates pain, do not really have pain when I press on it.) Do not feel that it is normal. Thought about seeing a orthopedist but was told lumps on neck region more of a ENT specialty. So lost on what to pursue next on that.

IMPRESSION: No masses, adenopathy, or acute findings in the neck. No
abnormalities demonstrated in the region of the right ear.

FINDINGS:
No focal abnormality is seen in the region of the right ear or external auditory
canal. The mastoid air cells and tympanic cavity are clear.
VISUALIZED ORBITS, PARANASAL SINUSES, AND SKULL BASE: No significant
abnormalities.
NASOPHARYNX: Within normal limits.
SUPRAHYOID NECK: No significant abnormalities in the oropharynx, oral cavity,
parapharyngeal space, and retropharyngeal space.
INFRAHYOID NECK: Normal appearing larynx and hypopharynx.
THYROID: Normal.
SALIVARY GLANDS: Within normal limits. No parotid mass demonstrated.
THORACIC INLET: Lung apices clear. No adenopathy.
LYMPH NODES: No lymph node enlargement or heterogeneity.
VASCULAR STRUCTURES: Patent.
BONES: C5-6 degenerative disc disease.
OTHER FINDINGS: None.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

Went to an interventional oral surgeon today who is retiring very soon. He has spent his life studying the effects of the jaw and neck in relation to somatic tinnitus. He said that there's a possibly that nerves that go to the jaw and then to the ears can cause somatic tinnitus, but he feels that is rare. Wisdom tooth compaction is possible. Most always he said that infection deep down in the jaw has connection and antibiotics will not help.

He said that the number one cause of somatic tinnitus by a long shot is whiplash, even if very minor, as it weakens the neck and jaw on one side and weakens the palate on both top sides from infection.

After effects at some future date: Muscle spasms in neck placing pressure to C spine and then to jaw, where the lower jaw moves forward - open posterior bite that becomes ahead of bite. If at a later date, pressure is placed to the jaw, somatic tinnitus and TMD may develop, but cause isn't the jaw, it's muscles of neck from pressure to C spine. These muscles, including the SCMs are placing pressure to the C spine where half may feel discomfort within neck and half will feel no discomfort at all. He said it's very rare that grinding or clinching will cause tinnitus unless the above happens first.

I have posted many link studies and thoughts from those studies that have agreement with what this doctor said. Treatment from him to studies: Get the mouth in order - any problems - periodontal pockets to clear infection and get a designed mouth guard for forward lower bite. Next is muscle therapy on neck, but don't mess with C spine.

This is the third doctor that said my dentists caused my problems and that I should never had a front lower implant as my side teeth would has shifted to full most of the gap.

 

[KWC]

I have posted many link studies and thoughts from those studies that have agreement with what this doctor said. Treatment from him to studies: Get the mouth in order - any problems - periodontal pockets to clear infection and get a designed mouth guard for forward lower bite. Next is muscle therapy on neck, but don't mess with C spine.

Guess that is kinda where I am at sort of. Working on getting my jaw in order. My mouth I had been working on getting crowns where needed for long term fillings trying to take care of what I had left before tinnitus started. I have one implant either #19 or #20 and am missing a tooth upper #3 I think.

On week 11 of splint therapy. My pain in TMJ region has gotten better and had 1st cold laser treatment today. Woke up after poor sleep with pain in neck and jaw and the laser therapy helped. Will keep doing at least 2-3 weeks.

I agree with feedback. I had to have a dentist file down a crown because it was left to high and my bite was off. Very sorry about your front implant. Trying to fix/improve something can throw something else off with big impact.

My TMJ doctor also has me using a CBD cream as well.

For the lump on my neck (seems right at posterior digastric) if my ENT cannot further help (already did CT, maybe MRI) not sure then will pursue a PT with TMJ experience I guess. I have been working on posture exercises but know its a long road. I tried one exercise given (roll up towel) under neck and move head forward and backward but got sore after that one.

My sound setup is the same... Playing sounds in background a bit lower in volume than the tinnitus sound. Too hard right now to try without. Sleep is pretty messed up too.

I hope he was able to give you some guidance and direction on what next steps to take going forward.

 

[Mathew Gould]

Went to an interventional oral surgeon today who is retiring very soon. He has spent his life studying the effects of the jaw and neck in relation to somatic tinnitus. He said that there's a possibly that nerves that go to the jaw and then to the ears can cause somatic tinnitus, but he feels that is rare. Wisdom tooth compaction is possible. Most always he said that infection deep down in the jaw has connection and antibiotics will not help.

He said that the number one cause of somatic tinnitus by a long shot is whiplash, even if very minor, as it weakens the neck and jaw on one side and weakens the palate on both top sides from infection.

After effects at some future date: Muscle spasms in neck placing pressure to C spine and then to jaw, where the lower jaw moves forward - open posterior bite that becomes ahead of bite. If at a later date, pressure is placed to the jaw, somatic tinnitus and TMD may develop, but cause isn't the jaw, it's muscles of neck from pressure to C spine. These muscles, including the SCMs are placing pressure to the C spine where half may feel discomfort within neck and half will feel no discomfort at all. He said it's very rare that grinding or clinching will cause tinnitus unless the above happens first.

I have posted many link studies and thoughts from those studies that have agreement with what this doctor said. Treatment from him to studies: Get the mouth in order - any problems - periodontal pockets to clear infection and get a designed mouth guard for forward lower bite. Next is muscle therapy on neck, but don't mess with C spine.

This is the third doctor that said my dentists caused my problems and that I should never had a front lower implant as my side teeth would has shifted to full most of the gap.

I've been doing physical therapy on my neck to make it stronger for 2 months now. I no longer have pain in my neck. I hope this is a step in the right direction since my neck is a lot stronger.

 

[Lilah]

Pain/soreness mainly in TMJ joint.

Do you have ear pain as well?

Next is muscle therapy on neck, but don't mess with C spine.

Am I understanding correctly, that this doctor doesn't think spine alignment affects tinnitus? I went to a NUCCA chiropractor for about 6 months, which had no impact on the tinnitus.

 

[KWC]

Do you have ear pain as well?

I have had some inner ear soreness... hard to tell if it is ear or TMJ since it is so close to TMJ.

 

[Greg Sacramento]

@Lilah He feels that whiplash, even very minor from forceful neck muscle spasms weakens the c spine, neck muscles, arteries and veins within the neck and jaw. He thinks that jaw problems often start with previous minor whiplash. Then when the mouth is open too wide for too long, TMJ can also happen. Also for a few, problems caused from breathing thru the mouth starting in early childhood - caused from second hand cigarette smoke and with that older classes of medications that were used for early life bronchitis. Hypertension, like infection are always concerns, but they can also be separate issues causing all sorts of other problems.

As we know, all that we post here can't be wrapped up into one package, including his thoughts or all research and studies on things that relate to tinnitus and pulsatile tinnitus.

He feels that when the neck and head does not fix correctly (balanced) to the rest of the body - the spine, then it's easier for anything physical to happen with the neck, jaw and even the ears.

The C1 area that is gently adjusted may help, but a C spine adjustment is tricky and often should be avoided. All sorts of radiological testing should be done first.

Some need to get the mouth in order - any problems - periodontal pockets to clear infection and get a designed mouth guard for forward lower bite. Next is muscle therapy on neck.

I had to have a dentist file down a crown because it was left to high and my bite was off. Very sorry about your front implant.

Good.

 

[Lilah]

I have had some inner ear soreness... hard to tell if it is ear or TMJ since it is so close to TMJ.

I have some ear pain/soreness in my right ear as well; it is my worse ear when it comes to hyperacusis, I hear more distortions there. But, I wonder if it is related to TMJ; I have mild TMJ on my right.

 

[KWC]

@Greg Sacramento

Have you come across any studies on splints or cold laser making things worse?

Really tough day with pain and noise. Pretty sure I overdid it with exercises and massaging the lump along my jawline but thought I would ask. Feel very sore.

Thanks,
Ken