Tinnitus Control by Dopamine Agonist Pramipexole in Presbycusis Patients

Discussion in 'Research News' started by rogerg, Mar 30, 2011.

    1. jacob21
      Amazed

      jacob21 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008 > 2009 "cured" >2nd onset June 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induce ( loud music )
      @Pleasure_Paulie
      5% is very poor as a relief.
      Before pramipexole, how would you rate your T over 10 ? and now?
      Do you have some hearing loss in high frequencies?
       
    2. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      I'm planning to continue it for the foreseeable future. Probably mostly for the other benefits, but I want to try a stronger dosage again - I chickened out before as it was pretty brutal the few weeks last I tried to up the dosage and felt like it made tinnitus worse too (this would probably settle). I also want to combine with an AD such as Pamelor.
       
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    3. jacob21
      Amazed

      jacob21 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008 > 2009 "cured" >2nd onset June 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induce ( loud music )
      @Pleasure_Paulie
      How are you ?
      Are you taking pramipexole
      ?
      Still some relief ?
      Tks
       
    4. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      Yes, still taking the pharmaceutical. I don't think its having a huge effect on me, but thinking I will take a break and restart it :) I'm still struggling to up the dosage due to the side effects; any slight change in dosage or dosage time causes big changes.
       
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    5. jacob21
      Amazed

      jacob21 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008 > 2009 "cured" >2nd onset June 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise Induce ( loud music )
      understood ! Hope you'll find the right dosage and some relief
      All the best
       
    6. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
    7. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
    8. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
      Sorry, I didn't supply the link, here you go: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/yes-you-can-recover-from-tinnitus-hyperacusis.12911/

      It's a pretty long post but it seemed like his condition was severe and he said it helped a little. Eventually he was cured for the most part over the course of a year so maybe it has a "building" or protective effect over time? He was also making a lot of lifestyle changes at the same time so who knows. You're right though, the study you cited doesn't make it seem like a very promising option but perhaps for someone with a dopamine issue it could have a positive impact.
       
    9. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      Very interesting, and I appreciate you bringing it to my attention :)

      Yes, its highly likely some of the positive lifestyle changes he made also assisted with his anxiety and reaction to Tinnitus which helped with habituation and he got better.

      However, I do see the medication has assisted a few people (although antidotal) and the drug has quite a unique action as dopamine antagonist, agonist and adrenergic antagonist (might be handy as pramipexole causes tiredness). I do worry about the dopamine antagonist action though as other medications with similar mechanisms can cause tarydive dyskinesia which is a permeant side effect of depletion of dopamine. That said, I'm not a doctor either! ha.

      It's certainly a drug I would be tempted to try (especially if it wouldn't have the tiredness side effect of pramiexole); but I do worry about lack of efficacy proven from the above clinical study; tinnitus is an unpredictable beast and its hard to know what really assisted the few people on Piribedil.

      I will keep on Prami for a bit longer and keep upping the dosage to see if I get an improvement from it, and might combine with an AD (looking at Pamelor, Zoloft or Remeron) as well moving forward.
       
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    10. grate_biff
      Alone

      grate_biff Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oslo, Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      09/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma, benzo/mirtazapine withdrawal, or combo!
      @Pleasure_Paulie
      I regret never to try out Pramipexole sufficiently. I stopped to try Lamotrigine instead. Now that did not work out at all:banghead:. But as it does not seem to do much for you, I guess that was a dead end to:banghead:.

      I would steer away from Remeron if I where you. Even though it will lower my T a bit, its extremely sedative and hell to to get off of. Also makes you one hell of a "sweet-tooth"!
       
    11. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      Honestly, don't regret it. I don't believe its doing a lot for me; except for making me very tired all the time!

      I have a box of it in the pantry and tried it a few times years ago for depression. It sure makes you sleep like a baby, and almost impossible get up the next day. I imagine combined with Prami, I would be almost comatose haha!
       
    12. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
    13. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      That's interesting. I know others have had success using a combination of medications in antidotal cases. I have certainly mixed Pramipexole with Xanax and Kolonpin before; but have not noticed a major difference. I do have Lyrica (another Anticonvulsant) which I could try; I stopped taking Lyrica (Pregabalin) in isolation due to the headaches it gave me.

      The combination of gabapentin (very similar to Lyrica but an older version) and Klonopin (Clonazepam) was published in a Tinnitus journal and studied showing efficacy years ago too. I certainly have tried Lyrica and Klonopin together with not much success; but although lyrica is an improved version of gabapentin its still chemically a different pharmaceutical so that could also be why.

      Its really like finding a needle in a haystack (and I've tried quite a few medications). And each and every time you take these medications, you have to weigh up the side effect profile. For example, I've not tried Torbalt; although I have about 4 boxes of it sitting at home haha!.

      PS. One point about the studies of Prami, they all used the instant release (old version) of the drug as I have been taking the Extended release (1 tablet a day vs 2/3 tablets). So it might make sense I try the older instant medication as per the study for consistency.
       
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    14. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
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    15. Melike
      Studious

      Melike Member

      Location:
      Istanbul, Turkey
      Tinnitus Since:
      17 / 03 /2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most probably TMJD and neck issues that came with it.
      Please let us know if you decide to try this :)

      It promotes the theory of Josef Rauschecker, so I'm very intrigued by the idea of using it with a Seratonine antagonist.
       
    16. EatMoTacos
      No Mood

      EatMoTacos Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
    17. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
      I don't think it promotes serotonin, only dopamine. In fact, too much dopamine might have a negative impact on serotonin.

      If though this is an herb it does come with some caution and should not be used long term: http://blog.brightlife.org/2014/12/mucuna-pruriens-dangerous-supplement.html
       
    18. EatMoTacos
      No Mood

      EatMoTacos Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Doesn't 5HTP promotes serotonin?
       
    19. Melike
      Studious

      Melike Member

      Location:
      Istanbul, Turkey
      Tinnitus Since:
      17 / 03 /2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most probably TMJD and neck issues that came with it.
      I know. What I meant to say was using it 'with' a serotonin antagonist.

      I am nowhere close to having too much dopamine.

      Agreed.
       
    20. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      I found this:

      "The most concentrated compound in this mixture is L-DOPA, which is the precursor to dopamine in the human body. As well as L-DOPA, mucuna pruriens also contains other compounds like 5-HTP, which is the natural precursor to serotonin. These other ingredients aren't present in a very high concentration, so the effects of mucuna pruriens are largely related to the L-DOPA content alone". Source: http://blog.brightlife.org/2014/12/mucuna-pruriens-dangerous-supplement.html

      5-Hydroxytryptophan (5-htp) increases serotonin in the Brain (also aids with sleep). Additionally, 5HTP would be an agonist, not an antagonist in pharmacological terms.
       
    21. EatMoTacos
      No Mood

      EatMoTacos Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      Yeah I've taken 5HTP before and it has changed my mood with regards to T honestly. It made me feel like I didn't care about it. Even though it was there.
       
    22. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      This thread is very off topic lol. But yes, I agree. It's s brilliant supplement along with pharmagaba - they are the best and both cross the blood brain barrier.. Sadly 5htp still has the sexual side effects of other SSRI/SNRI and tricyclic ADs when you fiddle with serotonin.
       
    23. EatMoTacos
      No Mood

      EatMoTacos Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music
      @Pleasure_Paulie and @Cal18

      Didn't mean to go off topic a bit but when you said serotonine first thing that came to my mind was 5HTP supplement. and with the mucuna pruriens supplement as well, well isn't this what Dr. Josef promotes in his video as the two main ingredients for maybe a T treatment?
       
    24. Cal18
      Nerdy

      Cal18 Member Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      San Diego
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      2010 / 2016 Both SSRI Withdrawal and Mild Hearing Loss
      I have to put my 2 cents here (even though we are SO off topic!). I have never seen any accounts of 5HTP or even St John's Wort lowering T (however, that doesn't mean these accounts don't exist). And if it helps your mood, go for it.

      My point is that just increasing serotonin or dopamine with supps does not seem to have the same effect as medications. Medications target specific dopamine and serotonin receptors as they are located in many different areas of the brain (basal ganglia, etc.). I believe this is the reason we occasionally see a positive impact with medications vs supplements which are "supposed" to do the same thing. As far as mucuna pruriens, I have no idea if it can have a positive impact on T as it's a little more obscure than 5HTP so there are less documented experiences.

      So if anyone decides to go first, please let us know how it goes!
       
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    25. Pleasure_Paulie

      Pleasure_Paulie Member

      Location:
      Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise or maybe... unicorns!
      St Johns like, Ginko actually greatly increases my volume. I quickly tossed those supplements away :)
       
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    26. Mic
      Buzzed

      Mic Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Welk actualy prami also seems to promote serotonin but on a very weak manner.

      From wikipedia:

      "Pharmacology

      Pramipexole acts as a partial/full agonist at the following receptors:[3][4]

      Pramipexole also possesses low/insignificant affinity (500–10,000 nM) for the 5-HT1A, 5-HT1B, 5-HT1D, and α2-adrenergic receptors.[3][5]It has negligible affinity (>10,000 nM) for theD1, D5, 5-HT2, α1-adrenergic, β-adrenergic, H1, and mACh receptors.[3][5] All sites assayed were done using human tissues.[3][4]"

      The affinity with 5-HTxx receptors could be insignificant for the many but was maybe significant in the few cases that were reported.

      ... and actually this kind of complexity for drug mechanisms makes the demand for serious research more valid!
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
    27. Helheim
      Stressed

      Helheim Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      Bumping this thread. I'm starting on this regimen tomorrow, we'll see if it helps.
       
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    28. Johnny Karate
      Lurking

      Johnny Karate Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/02/18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Viagra, naproxen, jamming out in bands loud music for years
    29. Helheim
      Stressed

      Helheim Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      I had to combine it with some other stuff but yeah, my little cocktail has helped somewhat. (Pramipexole, Atarax, Depral and Rivotril, you might have to look up the non-brand versions of those because they're different in the US and you're probably there).
       
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