Auditory Mirror Therapy for Treatment of Tinnitus

[UKBloke]

May I politely say I'm calling bullshit on this one.

I think it can be easy to dismiss this kind of research if we view it in isolation. But these trials discuss brain 'prediction errors' in tinnitus, which if my understanding is correct, is also the thing that forms the foundation of Will Sedley's work up in Newcastle. I'm hopeful that we'll see some quite useful data going forward.

 

[Nick47]

I think it can be easy to dismiss this kind of research if we view it in isolation. But these trials discuss brain 'prediction errors' in tinnitus, which if my understanding is correct, is also the thing that forms the foundation of Will Sedley's work up in Newcastle. I'm hopeful that we'll see some quite useful data going forward.

@UKBloke, I hope so but given recent findings, all pointing to the DCN, do we need to build up on that and change direction?

 

[Mentos]

@UKBloke, I hope so but given recent findings, all pointing to the DCN, do we need to build up on that and change direction?

It's best to explore many directions at the same time to increase chances of success.

 

[UKBloke]

@UKBloke, I hope so but given recent findings, all pointing to the DCN, do we need to build up on that and change direction?

I agree with @Mentos.

Furthermore, I think these two areas of research are mutually exclusive.

 

[HopeForSilence]

I found a new article about Mr. Clas Linnman's approach. It's an interesting interview with a message of hope.

Mirror Therapy for Tinnitus

https://catalyst.harvard.edu/news/article/mirror-therapy-for-tinnitus/

 

[Joe Cuber]

I'd be interested to know how they will manage to keep the participants from knowing whether they're in the test or control group.

 

[Nick47]

I'd be interested to know how they will manage to keep the participants from knowing whether they're in the test or control group.

THIS.

 

[PeterPan]

I'd be interested to know how they will manage to keep the participants from knowing whether they're in the test or control group.

Maybe the placebo group will get some music? I agree it's not that simple as some types of treatment may induce a placebo response more than others. Much easier with a pill!

 

[grayfox00]

Even if they are not able to establish control group, it's possible to create multiple groups each receiving specific number of treatment hours per week. By showing correlation between treatment time and THI reduction (or any other indicator), they will be able to prove effectiveness of the therapy.

 

[slc]

I'd be interested to know how they will manage to keep the participants from knowing whether they're in the test or control group.

I found a new article about Mr. Clas Linnman's approach. It's an interesting interview with a message of hope.

Mirror Therapy for Tinnitus

https://catalyst.harvard.edu/news/article/mirror-therapy-for-tinnitus/

Interesting that in the interview, Clas Linnman states, "In a pilot study we conducted with 20 people, the main result was that both awareness of tinnitus and tinnitus-related handicap were significantly reduced, but we don't know why. It could be an attention mechanism or it could be a placebo effect, as we did not have a placebo control in that study. That's where the Harvard Catalyst grant comes in."

As I read it, he doesn't unequivocally state there was no reduction in decibel level. He states "awareness of tinnitus..." was reduced. Might that also include a reduction in decibel level, but one they have not yet checked for. Also, he is quite up front about the limitations of the research thus far and expresses no interest in sham treatments or over-promising.

 

[Gb3]

Maybe the placebo group will get some music? I agree it's not that simple as some types of treatment may induce a placebo response more than others. Much easier with a pill!

No, they get a pair that just modulates sound.

 

[Fightthearmy]

I found a new article about Mr. Clas Linnman's approach. It's an interesting interview with a message of hope.

Mirror Therapy for Tinnitus

https://catalyst.harvard.edu/news/article/mirror-therapy-for-tinnitus/

While I'm all for trials, it's absurd that each of us couldn't go ahead and test this for ourselves, right now. I don't know if it works or not, but it's technically very simple to implement, and probably could be accomplished with an audio interface by some gearhead in a single day! Is there any particular reason to not organize a march to the Academy of Otolaryngology and demand that they start moving these devices to us who have nothing else?

 

[Joe Cuber]

While I'm all for trials, it's absurd that each of us couldn't go ahead and test this for ourselves, right now. I don't know if it works or not, but it's technically very simple to implement, and probably could be accomplished with an audio interface by some gearhead in a single day! Is there any particular reason to not organize a march to the Academy of Otolaryngology and demand that they start moving these devices to us who have nothing else?

@Fightthearmy - Previously in this thread, @ibd attempted this: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/posts/652396/.

 

[KoolKat]

While I'm all for trials, it's absurd that each of us couldn't go ahead and test this for ourselves, right now. I don't know if it works or not, but it's technically very simple to implement, and probably could be accomplished with an audio interface by some gearhead in a single day! Is there any particular reason to not organize a march to the Academy of Otolaryngology and demand that they start moving these devices to us who have nothing else?

I agree. It's either effective or not. By now they should be able to tell people if the device lowers, distracts or outright relieves the tinnitus.. Man I can't wait until modern ear medicine evolves so we don't have to deal with this bull.

Kudos for them trying, honestly, but, as we all know, some of us don't have 11 million years.

 

[BTaylor12]

I'd be interested to know how they will manage to keep the participants from knowing whether they're in the test or control group.

I live near Boston and completed this study a couple weeks ago.

The researchers I met with 2 times did not know who has the "real" device, or the sham.

I am 99% certain I was in the sham group, as my hearing perception was the same whether wearing the device or not, as they warned not to use it near streets or use while driving because sounds would be reversed.

A major focus of the study was on hearing. The headphones connected to a tablet and we took a hearing test every 2 days during the study.

 

[Alberte]

I live near Boston and completed this study a couple weeks ago.

The researchers I met with 2 times did not know who has the "real" device, or the sham.

I am 99% certain I was in the sham group, as my hearing perception was the same whether wearing the device or not, as they warned not to use it near streets or use while driving because sounds would be reversed.

A major focus of the study was on hearing. The headphones connected to a tablet and we took a hearing test every 2 days during the study.

Did you participate in the actual clinical trial led by Dr. Linnmann at Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital?

 

[BTaylor12]

Did you participate in the actual clinical trial led by Dr. Linnmann at Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital?

Yes.

 

[PeterPan]

Yes.

Did you do any other tests other than hearing? What about THI or loudness tests?

 

[BTaylor12]

Did you do any other tests other than hearing? What about THI or loudness tests?

Yes, both of those as well.

And various sounds to find a level which covers up the tinnitus. I was surprised how loud I had to go to drown mine out, very loud.

 

[Alberte]

Yes, both of those as well.

And various sounds to find a level which covers up the tinnitus. I was surprised how loud I had to go to drown mine out, very loud.

Do you know when the results of the clinical trial will be released?

 

[BTaylor12]

Do you know when the results of the clinical trial will be released?

I was told the study finishes in March. Results should be known in June.

 

[Harp]

If I'm understanding this all correctly, it should be easy to test with two microphones, a laptop and a sound interface. I have a recording studio so I'm well equipped to do this. I would set up a stereo pair of mics directly in front of me, wearing closed headphones that surround the ear (Beyerdynamic DT770). Reversed. Easy. But, safe?

 

[Fightthearmy]

If I'm understanding this all correctly, it should be easy to test with two microphones, a laptop and a sound interface. I have a recording studio so I'm well equipped to do this. I would set up a stereo pair of mics directly in front of me, wearing closed headphones that surround the ear (Beyerdynamic DT770). Reversed. Easy. But, safe?

I wonder if they considered four microphones. Both flipped and capsized. Am I trying too hard now?

 

[JRC1]

It is interesting to me, that in the Hearing Aids thread, @Quiet please talks about significant relief from hearing aids which transmit the sound from one ear to the other ear. She says she got this relief after years of no relief from normal hearing aids. (Her posts start on page 24 of that thread.) Isn't what she is referring to effectively the same thing which is being researched here?

 

[Nick47]

hearing aids which transmit the sound from one ear to the other ear.

What are these hearing aids called?

 

[JRC1]

What are these hearing aids called?

She calls them Phonak Bi-Cross hearing aids.

 

[Adaś]

Hi all. On this article Clas Linnman is photographed with a pair of $100 Howard Leight Impact Sport headphones, that have essentially similar features except radio communications as $500 3M Peltor TacticalPro mentioned earlier in this thread.

Since they're widely available in Switzerland (aka Jägerland ;P) I am thinking of giving the solution a try. I am ok with soldering and stuff and I already found a YouTube showing how open them:



@BTaylor12, can you confirm the headphones you used looked like these below? Thanks!

The color of Impact Sport is pretty distinctive and $500 Peltors are all black and completely different shape.

 

[BTaylor12]

@BTaylor12, can you confirm the headphones you used looked like these below? Thanks!

The color of Impact Sport is pretty distinctive and $500 Peltors are all black and completely different shape.

View attachment 53141

The headphones I used were 300 Peltor Sport Tactical.

I've thought about getting a pair, but not sure how to rewire them correctly.

I saw them for about $150 on Amazon.

 

[InNeedOfHelp]

Evaluation of Auditory Mirror-therapy for Tinnitus

Short trial with results in the coming months.

 

[Nick47]

@InNeedOfHelp, you are very good when it comes to spotting new trials.