Comedy Show — Will It Be Loud? Are Earplugs Enough Protection?

Wear ear plugs if it gets too loud.

 

^^^ This is actually the only comment that needed to be made on this thread. There's no need to always digress into petty arguments. Always carry ear plugs and/or muffs. Or leave if it is too loud and makes you uncomfortable. Easy.

 

The next time I make posts about it, I will make sure to be clear that if one goes to a loud event, there is a chance that their T will get worse and a (most likely much higher) chance that it will be unchanged.

You don't have to go to restaurants or movie theaters or concerts to socialize.

When earplugs provide a false sense of security (it doesn't always happen, but it is certainly a possibility), the consequences are horrible.

 

Oh go you'll be fine they said. Wear earplugs they said.

So I went to the event with ear plugs. Was there for only a few minutes. Big mistake. Gave me low drone/hum that's worst than the high pitch hiss/eeeee, tea kettle sounds. Never went away. sigh
3 1/2 years ago.

Everyone is different. Every situation is different.
You have to make a decision and live with it.

Once.

 

This should always be the answer to these questions. Tinnitus is so subjective and different for everyone. One person's experience doesn’t correlate to another. There are people with tinnitus who do all kinds of things from going to rock shows without ear plugs to sitting at home with double protection. Everyone is different.

 

What kind of event was it and how loud was it?

 

Hey @Jack Straw ,

It was my nice/god daughter's Sweet 15. I just needed to go inside for a few minutes together with my husband to blow one of her candles out and say a few words. There was music and people applauded (about 120 people). I was there for not more than 4 minutes. I just had foam ear plugs.

Like I said, every one is different and every situation is different. But when me or @Bill Bauer share our experiences here is not to cause fear. (Though it may seem like that) My intention is for the person to get as much information as they can. Balance it out. Both sides. Ultimately they have to make their choice. We live and learn.

There was someone here who said that she had the flu and when she took Tamiflu she got tinnitus. I answered her with my experience. I took Tamiflu twice and never got a spike.

Best to you all,
Once

 

It is INCREDIBLE that you would write this underneath Once's post

The newbies are not aware of the fact that if they do the things that they have always done without any problems afterwards, there is now a chance that they will regret it. It is important to make them aware of the risk that they are about to take.

 

You don’t seem to understand that everyone’s tinnitus is different and reacts differently. I know 5 people in my life with tinnitus. 3 take zero precautions and have never had issues EVER. 2 take precautions (ear plugs) but still go to loud events and never had any issues or it getting worse or louder. I know another that is a musician that has NIHL tinnitus and also never takes precautions besides ear plugs at shows and never has issues.

Then there is me who can’t do certain things anymore because it aggravates my tinnitus.

See how people’s tinnitus are different? It is unfortunate, but people have to know and feel out their own boundaries in regards to their tinnitus. No one is the same and no one has the same tinnitus.

On a side note, a lot of questions that come up a lot on here (headphones, over protection, easily damaged ear theory, etc.) are going to be asked to Richard Tyler PhD who is one of the leading tinnitus researchers in the US. He was recently put on the advisory board on Neuromod too. We will finally be able to end the debate on these stupid anecdotal reports with someone who actually has a background in science and can give us answers that even doctors can’t.

 

I wouldn’t distinguish you the same as @Bill Bauer because you understand that everyone’s tinnitus is different. You know that what some people can do some people can’t.

 

Have you read my posts? Do you know the meaning of the words "risk", "chance", and "probability"?

What part of my posts made it seem like I don't see that?

What part of my posts made you think that I don't agree with the above and that I am arguing against the above?

You were the one who said that the only good response to someone asking whether it is ok to attend a loud event is to tell them that it is ok to go, as long as they bring earplugs with them. I argued that everyone is different, and that the person needs to be aware of the fact that the chance that she is going to be ok afterwards is NOT 100%.

You seem to not be arguing with me, but with some imaginary version of me in your mind.

Someone is an expert in the field if he or she knows the published research in this field inside out. Unfortunately, there hasn't been any studies about what is safe for T sufferers, whether the ears of people with T are more vulnerable than the ears of the healthy people, etc. As a result, I am not sure how valuable that expert's opinion on those topics would be (unless there were studies done that we are not aware of that he would be able to bring to our attention).

LOL!

 

I would take a leading researcher's insight and knowledge of tinnitus over anecdotal evidence on a tinnitus forum 100% of the time.

 

Why does everyone get on Bill Bauer so much? He's just trying to inform you with experiences he has read and knows, or might of experienced himself? He's not saying don't do it, but he's supplying you with things that will make you weigh your choices a little more instead of making a mistake, and then, thinking later on, 'if I knew this, I wouldn't have done it.' He is legit assisting you with making an educated choice, and if you don't want that, then you don't? It's your life at the end of the day, but I appreciate someone who tells me the risks involved, even if there aren't proven anecdotals quite yet.

Better safe than sorry.

 

I 100% agree. Go Bill Bauer!!!!!! I support you wanting to keep our hearing safe.

 

Well, I have to admit that many of my posts do carry a message "don't do it as there is a chance that you will regret it." Of course people who love risk or who are not too worried about giving themselves a bad T spike, should go ahead and take the risk, as that would be the action most consistent with their preferences.

Check out
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/why-do-some-people-hate-bill-bauer.27106/
and especially @threefirefour 's reply that is second from the top.

 

LMAO.

 

Anecdotal evidence proves that the risk is there and is real. For some of us it is important to do what we can to eliminate the risk that we can eliminate. The leading researcher doesn't "have any skin in the game." He will not have to be the one listening to tinnitus for decades to come if the advice turns out to be wrong.

 

The point of the matter is mine is noise induced, so I will be taking care of my ears, everything dealing with them the way they should be taken care of. I will let them heal and have relief, even if it takes a year for them to? Like shit, bones take weeks, sometimes months. It's the same as not stepping on your foot when it's SPRAINED??? <-- Sprained AT THAT, not broken. You let the affected parts of you heal, and when they finally do, they don't have the same tolerance they had before? It's not rocket science.

 

Everything in life has risks. You can die driving your car. Does that mean we should all stop driving because there is a risk? Should we look up driving statistics in certain cities and avoid them if they may have a few more accidents? Taking one aspirin CAN KILL YOU if you are unlucky. Does this mean we all stop taking aspirin? Should we look up the risk statistics of every single thing we do in life? No that is absurd and OCD.

You make intense dramatizations about things that scare the shit out of people causing them to become hermits. You have no idea the kinds of messages I have gotten because of people who fear monger like this, “If you do this your tinnitus could get worse AND IT COULD MEAN YOUR LIFE.” How about just saying “There Is a risk of causing damage. Bring ear plugs and leave if it gets too loud.” Let them be the judge and test it with a sound meter. It is better to try to go and leave if it gets too loud than not go. What if it is perfectly sound safe, but they didn’t go because you scared the shit out of them? They need to live their life safely with tinnitus. That means carrying ear plugs and leaving if it gets too loud. Not everyone can live sitting at home never leaving to do things outside.

Also anecdotal reports on forums are majority of the time bullshit because we don’t know the whole picture. Someone could have exposed themselves to a loud bang and not dwell on it. Then later eat a chili that is spicy and get a spike. They will conclude “oh spicy food causes spikes”, when reality it was the noise from earlier. People also don’t realize that stress plays a bigger role in tinnitus than they think. They would be worrying about a noise event and their tinnitus can spike due to stress and not the noise. This was confirmed by DR. RAUSCHECKER, PHD. An actual scientist who is researching this. There is so much that goes into anecdotal reports that they can’t be taken as scientific fact or a basis for it.

 

Stares at this big block of text, but okay. You drive a car, but you buckle your seatbelt and don't text and drive, or drink and drive to lower down the risk. You're not presenting the same equal variables. You just sound mad. Just bring ear plugs, OP.

 

Your advice just agreed with what I originally said and disagred with what Bill is saying....

Also, I did mention variables if you read the rest of my post regarding annecdotal evidence.

Your new here so I’ll cut you some slack. Stick around the forum for a while and you will understand why I disagree with Bill on this.

 

No. It's literally not. I'm saying I appreciate Bill telling me what he told me, because he's telling the truth in certain stand points, that when your hearing is freshly damaged or anything of that like, take it easy. At least be safe for the span of three months, and if you're that paranoid, longer. I haven't read all of his posts, but you're buckling down and accusing him of being some bad guy. Does his post leave some fear in most people's hearts? Yeah, I'm sure of it. But so does the ringing in our ears and anxiety. You're saying he's taking this shit too seriously when you're in the same boat, getting all angry and paragraph long replies when you can literally can just ignore him if his 'fear monger' ways causes YOU distress. Anyone can ignore anyone.

And not to be rude, but your variables are crap. EXTREMES. Just like you accused bill of. YOU: WHAT ARE WE SUPPOSE TO DO??? STOP DRIVING, STOP TAKING ASPIRIN. Nah, just do your research and be safe about it. The truth of the matter is, everyone can walk into an unknown landmine while being the safest they can possibly be.

Anyway, I don't need you to cut me slack. I'm perfectly fine. What are you going to do? One shot me on Halo or something. We're chill. Take a breather.

 

Lol

You still don’t get it because you are new. I’m not shaming you or gatekeeping you for being new, I’m just telling you that you don’t understand the grand scheme of why I disagree because you haven’t been here a while. Talk to the guys in MPP and see if they can give you some understanding/context.

I am not affected by the fear mongering. I am trying to help the people who message me about the fear mongering and “facts” that are anecdotal evidence. If only you could see the type of things people say in PMs because of threads like this. @Ed209 also gets these messages too and can attest. Check our badges. We’re not bitter and angry we are genuinely trying to help here.

 

Mmk. To each their own.

 

If I started a thread on this site about how using more than 5 ice cubes in a water glass causes spikes, a whole thread would appear within days that shows some people get spikes at 5, some 7, some 3, and Bill would suggest that people only drink room temperature water.

Anecdotal evidence is CRAP. People on this site legitimately have posted about how Starbucks hot cocoa CURED them, and alllllllllllllllllll sorts of crazy crap.

Here's the truth - in the first 6-12 months with tinnitus, it spikes A LOT. Correlation and causation are difficult to decipher in most studies that involve control and expose even with peer review. Knock it down to a n=1 experiment where the subject and the data scientist are the same person and that person hasn't got a good nights sleep in 2 months and its nearly IMPOSSIBLE.

People say all sorts of crap gives them spikes. Most of it is truly random.

Comedy clubs aren't that loud. With earplugs your fine. Even "loud" restaurants aren't gun ranges. With earplugs you're well below the dB exposure of just sitting in your living room.

It's hard to have perspective early on in tinnitus. I certainly didn't. 3 years later it's pretty easy to see when I was being ridiculous though - and having been through that is really the only reason I still log in here - to help people realize their life isn't over. They can still enjoy life.

I know a LOT of people that have or HAVE HAD tinnitus. All of none of them became hermits. Most of them got better to a point its a non issue. A mix of healing and habituation to mild remainder.

 

lol...oh my

 

Ok, let's look at that. According to
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate
(I can give you a more reputable source, if you insist) in the United States, there are 7.3 fatalities per 1 billion kilometers driven. To compare apples to apples, we want to compare the expected cost of one hour at the comedy show to the expected cost of one hour of driving. In one hour, a person will drive about 100 kilometers, if they drive on the highway. One hundred km is 1/10,000,000 of 1 billion. Assuming the fatality rate is 10 fatalities per billion (it is less!), there is a 1 in a million chance of dying in a car crash. The risk of getting a big spike is a lot Higher than one in a million, or we wouldn't be getting as many stories about it here. I believe it is somewhere in the range of 0.1% and 1%. So, one thousand times larger risk. And many of us would agree that instant death is preferable to decades of loud T because of doing something stupid.

Once you realize how much risk of being killed in a car crash varies between countries, you will do what I do and always look up these statistics before considering a trip to a foreign country.

If the probability of that happening were to be 1 in one thousand or higher, then the answer would be "Of Course".

The point is that there is a risk that by the time you realize that it is getting too loud, it might already be too late.

There hasn't been any research published about the dB level that is safe for T sufferers (also it is all very individual). There are tons of examples where the person thought that the sound was fine, only to find out the Hard way that it wasn't.

The above makes complete sense if one places a comparable value on both an hour of noisy fun with good friends, and a lifetime/decades of screaming tinnitus. I bet most of the people who read my posts would gladly trade one hour of noisy fun for not experiencing ONE HOUR of loud T (note that the actual risk involves DECADES of T). Different people have different preferences, and so it is certainly possible that there are people out there who should ignore the risk and go.

See, it is impossible to prove something is safe, especially with anecdotal evidence. However, all it takes is one testimony (assuming the person is not lying; in our case we have plenty of testimonies, so surely it is impossible for all of them to be lies) to prove something is UNSAFE.

Most people are not idiots.

This feels like being the protagonist of that Groundhog Day movie. I keep having to address the same arguments. In any case, here it goes: a common feature of many horror stories is that the person is NOT stressed out about the loud event. They think that the noise is quiet enough that it can't Possibly harm them. It is only later, when they get a spike that their stress levels go up. The person knows more about their situation than you do, they are aware of the "it could be stress!" possibility, and they tell us: It wasn't stress!

About a two weeks ago, several people had posted new horror stories and I asked them directly - "are you sure it wasn't stress?", and the reply I got was basically "Yes, I am sure."

By the way, you never answered my two questions that I will quote below

He has never heard of Neuromod and their research into to curing T. Another fact is that there has never been any scientific studies about what noise is dangerous for people with T, how often the reason for T spikes is mistaken for stress, etc. What makes you think he would know anything about the topics that haven't been researched, if he is not aware of major research that has already been done by Neuromod?

This is a really bad argument. If only you could see the types of things that people say in their PMs to ME!

I will start a thread like this after I finish typing this, and we will see whether your prediction ends up being right. If people do testify that ice gives them spikes, I will make a note of it, and will want to ensure that more people know about it.

We are not talking about temporary spikes. We are talking about permanent spikes, or temporary spikes that last many months.

 

@Tom Cnyc I did it, but the thread got deleted. I guess the moderators knew that reality will be different from the outcome of your "thought experiment". Your point made no sense.

 

You have no understanding of figurative speech, do you?

 

He thinks he can draw conclusions that apply to everybody from what he knows, that's the problem. And when you get your "knowledge" by reading stories here and there for a few months it is not worth a lot unfortunately.

His distorted views lead him to give horrible advice such as getting one's ill teeth pulled out instead of getting them healed.