DIY Low-Level Laser Therapy for Tinnitus on a Budget — LLLT Under 100,-

@Cityjohn oh good, I work in an office. I can were them at work, but I'll need to remember to take them off when walking around. I think I'll start with an hour and slowly increase over time. Thank you.

 

I would at least try the parameters mentioned by Mr. Holeschak.

However, I state that it is a fact that LLLT helps.

Also Robert Kroll says that on his website.

 

3.5mw is too weak to penetrate very deep
most of it if not all is stopped by the skin and bones

 

Yes I read this, but even then 3.5mW seems so low power that it wouldn't be more than what the sun can supply if you lie down on the beach, which would mean that just moving to Africa would also cure tinnitus. Then there is the other fundamental problem, the fact that the chromophores in the mitochondria do not correspond to 635nm light, if you were to use a laser on a wavelength differing only 10nm it would be fundamentally useless. We can read a re-evaluation of spectral analysis of the mitochondrial chromophore we are targeting here; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331044/, specifically take a good look at the graphs.

It works when illuminating a surface, but do you really claim it works for tinnitus? Because the ear is definitely not where tinnitus becomes a problem, this is another fundamental problem with ear lasers, and the reason why I'm using a brain stem device. It is the dorsal cochlear nucleus that provides the first synaptic cleft in the auditory system and where noise is generated if the signal is too low.

This may seem true on first inspection but when you concentrate all of that 3.5 mW into a single wavelength we're talking about as many photons per second as there are stars in the observable universe. To date I have not seen anyone actually do the absorption calculations but they would go somewhat like this; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_depth Perhaps someone else versed in physics would like to give it a go.
Furthermore there is really only a maximum 2mm of skin between the eardrum and the entrance of the cochlea, you can even see the round window with an otoscope.

You know what, I've redone my schedule, I will wear them 5 hours daily. As I mentioned previously my 30Watt device stimulated my facial nerve near the jaw to produce a headache so be on the lookout for that

 

Oh and can we see a picture of your device? Here's mine; (Sorry for the bad hair, was busy with science)

 

@Cityjohn I'll do the five hours then too. I have the parts; I still need to put it together. I'll send a picture once I assemble it. I hope I don't have issues. If I do, I have a friend to help me.

 

So I promised to calculate the power per wavelength, I did a quick estimate;



In my opinion the Ear Leds, depending on your component, design, and power source, can reach anywhere from 0 to 10mW per unit wavelength. The only way I'm buying a Helium-Neon laser if this doesn't work is if it's a 250mW one like Wilden has.

 

@Cityjohn And my red LEDs would be the same or similar to what you are using correct?

 

Yes this is basically for all standard red LED's.

 

Hey Cityjohn!

I really like your efforts! Thank you for sharing this with us!

Well, yes I state that it helps for tinnitus. I experienced it and I state even that I know it.
I am also absolutely sure that the brain is never producing any sound except if you suffer from schizophrenia.

In my opinion TT comes ONLY AND ALWAYS from the (inner) ear (some cerumen or cancer may be responsible though, so sometimes it may be the middle ear as well).
In my opinion, the "brain theory" is complete bullshit and is only here to help with noiser marketing.

Please believe me some of my knowledge and experiences as I fight for 8 years already (with 99,8% success, so I can say fighting is worth it!!!)

 

@ehrfried can you briefly descripe your case? In which steps and after what times did your success happen?
Which supplements did you use ?

 

High pitched ''tinnitus''

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/2016-aro-hyperacusis-seminar-summary.15607/#post-187548

and the file below:

''
We know that traction of the tensor tympani
muscle increases the stiffness of the middle ear
system, which has a significant impact on bone
conduction. As a parameter of inner ear function,
bone conduction has two components: (i) the direct
transmission of bone vibrations into the inner ear
fluids; and (ii) the ‘‘osteo-tympanal’’ component
[23]. The latter component is based on the fact that
vibrations of the bone simultaneously cause vibrations
of the ossicular chain, which consequently
transfer the energy, as in air conduction, to the inner
ear via the stapes footplate. Stiffening the middle ear
system, which is comparable to the Gelle´ test with the
tuning fork and the Politzer balloon, causes deterioration
of the osteo-tympanal component of bone
conduction for lower frequencies. Thus, measurements
of bone conduction as an indicator of inner
ear function may mimic sensorineural hearing loss.''


''Most people experience very short ‘‘attacks’’ of
hearing loss every now and then, mostly accompanied
by some tinnitus, which vanish within a matter
of seconds. We speculate whether some of these
attacks, even when audiograms suggest sensorineural
hearing loss, may be interpreted as ‘‘tensor-induced’’.'

 

Hell Japongus, all along I've been missing the subtle difference between a myclonic state and a tonic state. That paper reminded me that one wasn't necessarily the other.

 

What's interesting about the paper (both, but in this case the brazilian one) is it goes a step further because it's externally heard. If it weren't heard objectively, we could still be making the case that the hearing loss is still a response from neurons somewhere in the sensorineural neurophysiological because the TTTS would be provoking the inner ear into redirecting its nerves into wrong directions due to all the external sound being blocked by the middle ear, if you see what I mean. I'm not saying that might not be happening still, but this is an indication that it might just not.

 

Middle ear myotonus, term coined by Japongus the Jastreboff successor...

 

One thing though, going by that paper research into middle ears is still very cadaverous.

That's one thing the lasers have going for them. You don't have to be dead to give it a go. CityJohn, I'm skeptical thus far but what you are doing here is still great stuff and I wish you a great and profitable (but not too profitable please) business opportunity if you get where you could go with this. I'll be first in line.

 

I agree with @PaulBe ... it's also possible the laser is working, just not as many people say it's working. i.e. by doing something to the middle ear. Like the paper that cured ''meniere's'' with middle ear muscle tenotomies, as if a wave of TTTS were the culprit behind a bunch of all of our interior maladies.

 

@Marlino yes I can:


TT and H and HL after 4 hours in a rock disco in summer 2008.

HL was at ~5-15 db
Back at 0 now.

I wrote in #85 the most important things.

I have been working with this for several years already and can tell you it is most likely that you, but also other tinnitus sufferers, especially if it came from noise exposure (but for others, it should be equally possible - it is just less tested), can cure your tinnitus 100% and get all the hearing back!
Here is the idea:
---------------------


-Endurance Sport (e.g. Cycling or running)


Vitamin List:
-Vitamin C in the form of Natriumascorbate
-Vitamin B-Komplex (B1, B2, B3, B6, B8, B9)
-Vit. B12 (as Methyl- or Hydroxocobalamin) injection subcutane
-Protein rich and basic diet
-Phospholipids (=lecithin)
-Magnesiumcitrate
-Calciumcitrate
-Vitamin D3 (10000-24000 IU daily)
-Omega 3



Get a really silent place to sleep.
You can also put these onto your walls: http://www.directupload.net/file/d/4372/9g7j4u6p_jpg.htm

Why does it work: Stimulates production of ATP (B-Vitamins, B12, Sport)

Hearcells produce Tinnitus because:
-Broken myelin surface unintenionally lets potassium ions go into the hearing cell -> electric current is produced and nerve forwards it.

How to cure:
-Nerves are very good at repairing theirselves, however, they cannot do cell mitosis as e.g. skin cells.
How to support repairing: -avoid exposure to sound (more sound=more potassium going into your cell, cell needs ATP to get back the balance of sodium and potassium. That is also why hearing consumes ATP (also for healthy people))
-increase atp production with the vitamins
-get the stuff the body needs to produce Myelin, which is what the cell needs on the outside and what is partly broken on the hearing cells: Omega3. Lecithin (=Phospholipids), Amino Acids


That's it!

Good luck and if you need advice, then ask me . I am very happy to help you guys and please forward it if it helps for you to contribute to a tinnitus free world .



And one advice: Don't buy your vitamins at the drugist around the corner. Buy it on good shops that are specialised on vitamins. e.g. vitamin express (german) or life extension and so forth. there are plenty of these kinds of shops!

One more advice: Test your blood levels for all vitamins and minerals. Supplement what's missing and use high to very high doses - otherwise there is low or no effect.


Give your nerves as much rest as possible:
-Avoid sound wherever possible, especially at night. During day: Wear custom made silicone earplugs all day, Except in totally silent rooms.
-For loud and unavoidable things like public transport, put on some earmuffs or if this is embarassing: headphones for drummers like th beyerdynamic dt 770m
-avoid mercury exposure (e.g. teeth)


one more thing: In my opinion "science" is often on the wrong path, especially in medicine.....and you cannot believe all studies....i saw it myself when i wrote my master thesis (until end of june this year) and found many "bullshit papers" during my literature research....in german we say "people all cook with water" which basically means everybody, even with PhdPhD Scd degree, is also only a human being.

 

@ehrfried sorry so be so curious but you seem to be one of the rare cases of long term sufferers with good outcome on tt.
So you are facing tinnitus for 8 years now and almost reached perfect remission if i understood you right.

How bad was your T and how did the T get better? Did it fade away or did it disapear in steps?

 

Yes, almost complete for now. I started working on it this way in 2013 and it took 1,5 years.
Before, I did other things that helped a bit. But this is the most effective way I know for now.


Marlino, yes I am a rare case because people tend to give up after a while.

You always have to ask WHY are there only XY% of people getting cured from AB.
This is the problem....many people think....A study showed that 99% of the people dont survive Virus X.
Classic medicin concludes that you have a one percent chance of surviving it.


In fact, I state that this way of thinking is worthless in medicine. Medicine is not a casino where you can calculate with probabilities like that.


Doctors should always ask.....what is special about those 1% of people who survived virus X?


In fact, everyone that tried therapy had success so far. However, some people still give up after a few months and do not experience a complete cure.


Of course, things are in fact not that easy and just eating vitamins will give most people relief, but not a complete cure.....you also need to work on your health.


Sports, Silence, a healthy gut (so that you absorb more vitamins you eat -....and not just 3%).
----------------------


How does it improve?

-First: It always happend over night as this is when nerves regenerate. So get plenty of deep, silent sleep!
-Second: The first improvements are the biggest. My first improvement was like 50% in one night. From 4% to 0.2% of TT, where I am now, took quite some time. Nevertheless, it is possible to get RID of it as I know other people who did (look at "Dustin Müller" on tinnitus.de for example. He is the person I learned most things from.
-Third: Changes are permanent but of course you can damage it again. And you are still more sensitive than other people....it is like a healing wound....as long at it is there....dont touch it!


And seriously: Get a silent sleeping place! The last two years i did not have one and only this made my TT worse, even though I made everything else right.



And it is so important that you dont give up. In my opinion, this is the "rare" case here. Most people, including me in earlier days....try a therapy....and if it does not work in e.g. 2 weeks....they think it does not work at all and give up.....

I was lucky enough in 2009 that I found a doctor working with vitamins.....well this was the first real therapy that helped.....and it took 3 MONTHS until I noticed any relief.....until then I always told him "it does not work :" and he, thank god, always replied "continue! You will see!"


Well.....actually this was the therapy which brought me from 100% to 4%....it was basically the same therapy but incomplete (e.g. no lecithin) and worse (e.g. cyanocobalamin tablets instead of methylcobalamin lozenges or injections, which are far more effective) and with the wrong theory behind (I got the vitamins to build up the discs in the spine, because the doctor thought it is the spine that causes TT......

 

Ok, I am all doing now (good sleep in silence, sports....) and have done it also before TT.
But about vitamin b12 is a good hint. Ordered the methylcobalamin since I was only using the cyanocobalamin yet

 

When did it happen? Was it after the vitamin treatment?

I can say that I experienced 50% betterings so far but it always got worse again. I have no clue why! It seems to go in cycles around 2 weeks better, 2 weeks worse. During the 2 weeks worse (like now) I never can imagine it to become better again...

It's ridicolous how it plays emotional ping pong with me. Like there is someone behind the scene doing a psyche experiment on me always figuring out the meanest ups and downs...

 

It happened on May 8, 2009. Ha! I even remember the day!#Yes it was after taking vitamin B, C, D, Gelatine (for the spine haha!) for 3 Months. I only took cheap tablets where probably less than 1% was absorbed.....so take better stuff and the effect should come faster.
I know one guy who started by injecting B12....and a few days later he had the 50% experience.

Yeah I totally agree with you. It always goes in cycles.
I also measured this in my bachelor thesis with 5 patients....They all had cycles.
BTW I did not study medicine but I still made a thesis on TT.

Well......I think there are a lot more things you can still improve...
So many people think they live "healthy" but in fact they don't. bad Gut, Vitamin deficiencies, Virus infections......all those things are found in a so called healthy human being....and if there is suddenly a problem.....well....then it is often a real problem.

The problem is that the body can cope with so many bad states and wrong "treatments", deficiencies, etc that we notice it only by having less live energy (almost all people in the world are too tied all day long....) and if we notice something, then it is when we are e.g. 50 and made the same "mistake" for years already.....You know what I mean?

Why do many people go outside the same club and do not have TT or have it but their ears regenerate in a few days? I state it is exactly that reason!

The blood is a perfect indicator for that.
Check your blood for:


-All vitamins and minerals
-Virus infections like EBV (such a shit!), Borreliosis and so on


I am sure by doing only this you will find great opportunities for improvements!

Never give up and do not declare how much you suffer please . Put yourself on the winner side!
You should consider it as a Problem you have to solve. That's it.

 

As much as I like to rebuttal some of the claims and sources, or lack thereof, put forth I don't have the time for it. This thread is about a replication study based on extensive research which started at Harvard medical over ten years ago. It is centered around neural and synaptogenesis through mitochondrial transcription, mobilization, and re-polarization by making use of very specific mechanics involving very specific proteins in the neuronal mitochondria. Not so much a discussion about what tinnitus is, because it is explained here; https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/chapter-2-what-is-tinnitus.15681/

My main targets here are the nervous tracks which have been damaged through apoptosis as is the case with hearing damage. It took about 10 minutes to understand these are all part of the CNS, simply because they do not regenerate like peripheral nerves, and are located inside the dura mater, making them part of the CNS per definition, and hence part of the brain. The amount of literature backing this only in my personal bibliography spans about 100 excellent study's which could form the basis for a publication or two of my own if practice should work in accordance to theory and thus have any merit.

Anything else is lost on me here.. With the ability to objectively measure individual tracks inside the entire brain, and produce very accurate graphs of brain stem signal processing, both of which have been used to confirm the general consensus about tinnitus I don't see why anyone would want to discuss hypotheses and speculation any further.

I look for very specific signs of truth, the level of exactitude and certainty needed to convince a former engineer and physics major of anything is at the very least absolute certainty backed by theoretical studies and practical results. If anything about any theory or hypothesis anyone has is incomplete, it should be rejected by default, just like these quotes filled with complete uncertainty and total inexperience;

''Most people experience very short ‘‘attacks’’ of
hearing loss every now and then, mostly accompanied
by some tinnitus, which vanish within a matter
of seconds. We speculate whether some of these
attacks, even when audiograms suggest sensorineural
hearing loss, may be interpreted as ‘‘tensor-induced’’.'

&

Tonic contractions of the tensor tympani muscle: a key to some non-specific middle ear symptoms? Hypothesis and data from temporal bone experiments

apart from the fact that these studies have absolutely nothing to do with tinnitus or my own study, this is such poorly executed writing it really sinks in why tinnitus hasn't been helped yet. We generally do not use completely speculative studies as evidence. Furthermore all these sources don't give me any new information, they basically measured attenuation by the tensor tympani... To illustrate the difference in usefulness to my own work I'll enclose two quality quantitative papers relevant to this thread.

 

How did you measure the difference from 4 to 0.2 %?

It's really odd to go around telling people they could be healthier, if I had a higher abundance of everything my body needs I would begin to incur physical stresses according to results in two labs. This argument bears a striking resemblance to the argument that prayer can heal your blindness, simply because if vitamins would work for tinnitus, then why don't they heal blindness?

 

Correct, correct!!! Your posts above are VERY helpful! Thank you for taking the time to write them!

 

Tinnitus is like a religion. With different churches, preachers and dogmas.
And the same little sense in it.

 

@Cityjohn: Measuring it is veeeery hard and still subjective.
It is an estimation. I am sorry that I cannot provide measurement results. However, it is (was until recently due to lack of silent flat to sleep, that's why I am currently here) so silent that i could not even hear it in a normal flat with windows closed. Only in flats on the countryside or similarly silent areas.

The thing is, it may be odd but it is at least partly true. You can e.g. optimize the number and force of mitochondria in your cells. Everybody could do it but as long as you are not forced to do something for your health (apart from fitness studio & so on) people (including me in earlier days) just "use" their body....if it stops "functioning" they go to the doctor to "fix" it. However, doctors never take responsibility for you and good health can only be reached with self responsibility and a lot of discipline imo.

In fact, you can do something against maculardegeneration using vitamins. I do not want to discuss with you (in terms of an argument) - I think you are very very smart and I adore you for your laser building abilities. If you want I will search for a link.
However, you do not have to believe me.

@Marlino:
Today when searching for pokemon, I kept thinking about what you said.....regarding the religion thing.
In fact, what you need for a cure here to work is trust in my opinion. Because if something takes months until it has any effect.....you need trust not to just give it up.

Even if some kind of food could influence the noise......digestion might take so long (up to 120 hours is what I read recently) that you may never build a connection between intake and TT by your "senses".

So this is a long term cure....and it needs trust. If you want to try it....i would give it some time. How long? I don't know.....I estimate 2 months may be realistic.

@Path Maker:
Thank you! I am extremely happy if I can help someone!

Right now I am a bit desperate myself (finished studies now, have to move to another country and somehow ..."fell in a whole" (another german saysing)...including tinnitus being worse again -although still realtively good).
I would really like to find people to collaborate a bit more .
That's why i also really appreciate this thread here - sorry for my posts being OT sometimes, and your work, @Cityjohn!

 

In the last paragraph, I meant: Thank you for your work @Cityjohn!

 

All of that's outdated. Not only because the divide between pulsatile and continuous ''tinnitus'' has been breached in the brazilian study, but because at least Sismanis and a few others have given up on the classical literature of what objective means and they do tenotomy merely on a patient's description of thumps, echoes, twitches to sound. And because of the ambiguities in the recent literature on middle ear myoclonus, that talks of sound sensitivity which is cured with tenotomy so

''
Subjective tinnitus can often be accompanied by other issues such as an over-sensitivity to sound, the experience of pain with or without certain sounds, a sensation of fullness in the ear, weird noises when swallowing, dizziness, etc. These afflictions and tinnitus will have the same cause, or will follow naturally at the advent of tinnitus because the body reacts to tinnitus as if it were an externally produced sound.
It is conventionally thought that a problem with the cochlea or dorsal cochlear nucleus is at the root of most subjective tinnitus in occurrence, simply because these parts are first in line for any damage from the outside world.''

doesn't make any sense. Also, we have testimonies of people with sound sensitivity and tenotomy in the forums, at chat-hyperacusis and I pasted one here.


Are you saying conductive hearing loss can't mimic sensorineural hearing loss? What are you saying? That if there is such a thing as TTTS, laser won't be working on it like it does on a skin rash that needs healing?

Harvard can spend 10 years researching and 40 years getting lectured by Jastreboff but that won't change the above evidence. Jastreboff also thinks it's all sensorineural and in the brain, he thinks its all just misophonia, and yet people with tenotomies cured their ''sensitivity to particular sounds like a mouse or a keyboard'' which has had the Jastreboffs chastising us for 30 years ''demystifying the process to us that it really is misophonia''. Jastreboff and Wilden can keep at their epic rap battle of history both in agreement that TTTS is a ''protective function'' but they're both spectacularly wrong. This is just all result of the massive fallacy that no one dares play around with those muscles because they're perceived to be protective and because the masses of patients are discouraged from thinking about peripheral causes.