Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. Jurger

      Jurger Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2004
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Hearing loss
      I believe the ‘cancer in mice story’ is the REGAIN drug orally/systemically. Different company, different delivery method, different drug.
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1
    2. Michael01
      Frustrated

      Michael01 Member

      Location:
      Grafton,NSW,Australia.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      So long as FX-322 when it's finally released isn't ridiculously expensive. I won't be very impressed if they decide to charge thousands of dollars per dose for the stuff, as I'd do just about anything within reason for a cure.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    3. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I think that they will charge comparatively to the cost of a hearing aid at this stage. It seems that this is the relevant comparative market. We might see FX-322 subsidised in some countries via government healthcare programs (eg: Australia) and insurance (eg: America). This will enable Frequency Therapeutics to obtain a better return if it is covered by government healthcare and also insurance.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Hug Hug x 1
    4. sssing

      sssing Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      cold
      Yes, I agree. I don’t remember the name of that drug but they gave it systemically to the mice and most of them died of diarrhoea. I remember reading that it burned the mice' guts and those who survived were very thin.
       
    5. d'Wooluf

      d'Wooluf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Needless paranoia imo. No amount of disinformation will have any serious effect on Frequency Therapeutics. It might drive the share price down temporarily until we see the next round of hard data and then the market will be driven by published results only. If FX-322 safety and efficacy is proven it will be released. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
      • Like Like x 1
    6. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I agree and I also believe that the consequent concerns held by some about the appropriateness of the FX-322 will be extremely short lived. Especially when these people see that the outcomes are totally positive in those who have undergone the treatment. Most certainly the naysayers will make attempts to denigrate FX-322 however.

      It is incredibly funny that there would be firms or people who would even try this.

      The claims made by the taxi companies here to show why they were better than UBERs were utterly ridiculous. I reckon the best one was that taxis are always going to be safer vehicles because they have to be compliant with the regulations. Right after this there was a roadworthy blitz and 10 got done hard in a media story in about half an hour. It will be exactly the same story with FX-322 and similar medicine.
       
    7. Joeseph Stope
      Innocent

      Joeseph Stope Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise? infection? negative stress? other?
      A fair and competitive price for FX-322? I hope they become millionaires. But I'm of the view that it will help a percentage of sufferers. Imagine paying 5 grand for your four shots and you find that it doesn't work for you, but I pay 2 grand for two shots and it does work for me! Roll up, roll up ladies and gentlemen.

      They will be competing with the hearing aid sector. Tinnitus Talk will enjoy a very vibrant discussion time when the drug gets released onto the market.
       
    8. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I think that if they were savvy and actually are super keen on smashing the hearing device industry then they would be wise to come out with a money back guarantee. Give people the chance to try it and if it isn't successful then they can claim a refund.

      I reckon that it is incredibly unlikely money back guarantees would be offered, however it would put confidence in people that they firstly don't need to outlay obscene amounts of money for something that might not work. Secondly showing FX-322 works for others means that there is actually going to be a higher willingness to undergo the treatment.
       
    9. swc5150

      swc5150 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2012
      I don't think Frequency Therapeutics care or think about hearing aid companies anymore than Henry Ford did buggy whip makers :)
       
      • Like Like x 3
      • Agree Agree x 2
    10. patorjk

      patorjk Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Several reasons
      For the "American Academy of Otolaryngology – Head & Neck Surgery (AAO-HNSF) 2020 Virtual Annual Meeting & OTO Experience" that's happening this Sunday, is there any way we'll know what is said?
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 5
      • Helpful Helpful x 1
    11. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      The only problem is that in America many insurance plans don’t cover hearing services. Including the largest insurance provider in the country, Medicare.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    12. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      My understanding of how American health insurance works might be wrong, however isn't it true though that while most insurance policies/companies currently do not cover the cost of hearing aids, they do cover most medicines which have passed FDA trial requirements and obtained FDA approval? Thus the effect that this would have on PIPE-505, FX-322 etc etc would be that they would have their cost either fully or partially covered through their insurance, depending on their type(s) of coverage?

      A number of people and also companies have stated that if hearing related restorative medicine is approved then there would be access to it under their insurance just like there is already for antibiotics or skin conditions for example?

      Therefore Frequency Therapeutics would have a massive advantage also over hearing aids as they can not only challenge their market but they can also have the cost of FX-322 covered. This means more people would likely be able to undergo the treatment as they do not have to bear the financial burden of the treatment personally.
       
    13. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Insurance companies don’t cover all medications, they give you a list of meds they cover and if FX-322 is expensive, they might not be willing to cover it. America sucks.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
    14. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      That is interesting. Insurance coverage is apparently one of the justifications that Hough Ear Institute has stated for their pill needing to be put through the phase 2 tinnitus trial.

      The question is why would people and/or firms be claiming that they can obtain insurance coverage for a medicine if they ultimately cannot or is it a hit or miss scenario?
       
    15. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Being on label just means you can appeal the decision and sometimes win but it's a battle.
       
    16. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Because it’s still better for some people to be able to get their medication covered. Not everyone has shit insurance, my insurance actually covers all hearing related stuff and when I was considering TRT I was told it’d be covered 100%.

      All this said, it’s strange Hough Ear Institute would say the tinnitus trial is required because once a drug is approved for any indication, doctors can prescribe it for reasons outside its approved purpose. It’s called off-label prescribing, it’s done all the time.

      It sounds like Hough Ear Institute is wasting their time or they could be hoping that if their drug is approved for tinnitus, it’ll be more profitable to them since they’ll have the only drug in the market approved for tinnitus and therefore doctors will be more likely to try it first.

      Regardless of Hough Ear Institute's motivation, it doesn’t help patients for them to do that imo.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
    17. Born To Slay
      Depressed

      Born To Slay Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert
      Yeah I know, but it does have to be mentioned that insurance companies are very clever when it comes to denying care.
       
      • Agree Agree x 4
    18. tommyd87

      tommyd87 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      tmj music
      I agree, a large number of differences exist within the insurance market in America, based off of what I have found out about it. There seems to be different levels of coverage and also different requirements for what health insurance is going to cover between different states. I also agree that there might be some with insurance who would be unable to obtain this type of treatment through their coverage.

      I am actually going to discuss the issues with what you have said in relation to Hough Ear Institute in the appropriate thread. However, what I will say here is that the lack of/gaps in information around the tinnitus aspect of it is confusing.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    19. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      I think what you are saying about doctors more likely to prescribe something on label is true.

      I think there is another factor though and it is how cost prohibitive this will be for many without insurance coverage.

      A few members (I would tag them but I have forgotten who...) tried to price the drug from a research chemical compounding facility, and they were quoted something insane like $10k a dose minimum and possibly much more. I realize when you mass produce something the cost goes down but this is a very expensive drug and the pharmaceutical partners expect to make a good return on their investment, too.

      With cochlear implant trauma, you could be looking at one dose at the time of surgery (with a surgery that already costs about $50k), but with other indications, who knows?

      This could make the Hough Pill completely unaffordable to many unless they have a good insurance plan, which gives Hough Ear Institute great incentive to get it labelled.

      To put it another way, if it's not labelled and not covered, most people with mild tinnitus might not fork over the money, therefore the market share would increase substantially with insurance coverage.

      I wonder if this is one reason they are testing it for cochlear implant surgery trauma first, due to increased likelihood of being routinely used for an indication where cost is already high but insurance usually covers it.

      I'm not as worried about the Hough Ear Institute setbacks because the pill does 2 things: helps with inflammation in the cochlea and regenerated synapses but it's not the *only* drug being tested for those things.

      Drugs being tested for cochlear inflammation (indirectly):
      SPI-1005
      Otividex

      Drugs being tested for synapse regeneration:
      OTO-413
      PIPE-505
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    20. Billy_Shears

      Billy_Shears Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Knoxville, Tennessee
      Tinnitus Since:
      2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Pink Floyd
      In all probability, sensorineural noise-induced hearing loss treatment with FX-322 in the United States would not be covered by most individuals insurance plans with their employers or Medicare for that matter. There is a huge market out there for FX-322 and insurance companies will most likely steer clear with little coverage.

      Lending sources such as CareCredit would likely be available for anyone with a reasonable good credit standing to help cover the cost of treatment with a payment plan.

      It's my guess that this will be the reality but still well worth it!
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
    21. Michael01
      Frustrated

      Michael01 Member

      Location:
      Grafton,NSW,Australia.
      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      All I can say is that if it's released here in Australia they better offer a fair price, as various bodies here would frown on $5k price tag on drugs for people with severe hearing loss and such things. But another part of me wishes they'd just release the thing onto the market, as I could really use a pill just to start making all this go away...
       
    22. weab00
      Alone

      weab00 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      depression-ville
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      music, concerts, whiplash; 08/20 H worsening
      What’s the mechanism behind fluctuating tinnitus? And does FX-322 have potential to cease constant fluctuations/reactivity?
       
    23. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      My 2 cents:

      My interpretation is that tinnitus is a combination of x + y + z.

      Where x is structural damage, y is inflammation or neuroinflammation and z is intrinsic factors like neurotransmitters.

      People who have more fluctuations, probably have more fluctuations in y and z or have causes (like TMJ, Meniere's etc etc) that vary more than others.

      Drugs like FX-322 will assess "x" but in most people the equation is more like tinnitus = x + xy + XZ.

      This is my theory based on everything I have read anyway.
       
      • Agree Agree x 6
      • Creative Creative x 1
    24. GBB

      GBB Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Microsuction / Additional Acoustic Trauma in Close Proximity
      Interestingly I had an appointment with my ENT yesterday - I asked him whether he had heard of FX-322 and when he said no I started to describe it. He immediately cut in that it was impossible to get delivery to the inner ear and that the therapy sounds like a pipe dream. I am not trying to criticize, I just think it’s interesting how a doctor could have such a swift and adamant reaction. Very strange.
       
      • Funny Funny x 3
      • Agree Agree x 2
      • Informative Informative x 1
    25. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      What? They treat Meniere's patients *currently* with intratympanic drugs.
       
      • Agree Agree x 3
      • Winner Winner x 1
    26. tomytl
      Grumpy

      tomytl Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10 Years
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      Hi,

      Same happened here, it really depends on the ENT. I used to visit a so-called tinnitus clinic. I also told them about some clinical trials taking place. She was just laughing and advised me to develop my own ear drops...

      The other ENT is quite optimistic about a future treatment, he always says that it‘s frustrating he can‘t do more.

      I correspond with a top HCR Researcher. He is confident that within the next 5 years there will be treatments for some hearing conditions, but robust hair cell regeneration will take a little longer because of its complexity.

      Maybe FX-322 won‘t be perfect, but a step in the right direction.
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    27. Fields
      Busy

      Fields Member

      Location:
      Netherlands
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise trauma
      Pretty similar to the way my first ENT reacted. After this experience, I did some research and found a different one.

      The first ENT didn't physically check my ears or nose and just told to learn how to live with it.

      My new ENT is currently treating for a retracted eardrum on my right side, which he diagnosed after... checking my ears.

      So far it hasn't done much for my tinnitus, but at least it's a starting point. He was also keen to learn about FX-322, and was pretty hopeful about a future cure.
       
      • Like Like x 3
    28. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      ENTs really run the gamut. The ENT featured on Frequency Therapeutics' last video conference was super excited about it and its huge potential and then we have an ENT who thinks medicine won't reach the inner ear (despite the fact that they are currently already doing that with IT Dexamethasone and Gentamycin (in the case of Meniere's)).

      It's like any other field/profession I guess. Some people are really on top of it and some aren't.
       
      • Agree Agree x 5
      • Like Like x 2
    29. tomytl
      Grumpy

      tomytl Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10 Years
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown
      I think it's important that professionals are openminded for solid research.

      But we shouldn't forget that we put a lot of hope in Frequency Therapeutics in the perspective of patients, so our thinking is far more wishful than probably the results will be.

      When I got sudden hearing loss in 2003, there was the discovery of the Atoh1 approach, almost 10 years later, it went to a clinical trial led by Genvec/Novartis. I thought this might be something which will help us soon. Wasn't so...

      Frequency Therapeutics' approach sounds far more promising, but I guess only with the results of the Phase 2a we can see in which direction it will go.

      I really pray that we can get some relief, I do not expect 100% relief, anything which helps in a causal way is welcomed.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    30. Gb3

      Gb3 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sshl
      Didn't they prove that FX-322 reached therapeutic levels in the cochlear already?
       
      • Like Like x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • Winner Winner x 1

Share This Page

Loading...