Guys, It's VERY Possible That a Cure Is Right in Front of Us...

Our diet tends to be high in calories but low in nutrients: lots of processed foods and fast food (McDonalds). Much of our food is grown on commercial farms that use lots of fertilizers, resulting in exhausted soil and less nutritious foods. Even people who eat a healthful diet full of fruits and vegetables are getting fewer nutrients than our grandparents did on the same diet, just because of modern food production methods. Eating organic food helps; so does having a garden. Example: tomatoes. The commercially grown tomatoes sold in many grocery stores have been bred to look pretty and survive transporting from farm to store. They've been strafed with pesticides and taste like mealy, flavorless, red mush. I can't even eat them, and I love tomatoes; instead I grow my own on my patio in summer.

When I traveled in Europe, I was surprised at how good everything tasted and how easy it was to eat well. In the US, eating well can require a real effort for many people.

 

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that the diet didn't do anything - obviously it did. A few years ago I tried a modified version to see if it would help with restless leg syndrome, and yes, it did.

But it's a leap to call this a potential cure, mainly because a new case of tinnitus is a very different beast from one that is chronic. Once it settles in, tinnitus causes changes throughout the brain, not just in the auditory system. A cure would involve reversing those changes, and right now the only options I've seen involve things like mindfulness meditation that help rebuild the pre-frontal cortex. I actually think the Wahls diet would be very helpful in conjunction with meditation; if you're trying to grow new neurons, the more raw materials you give your body, the better. But it's still a slow process.

The other reason I'd hesitate to call if a potential cure is that I suspect that once you've had tinnitus, you'll be at a higher risk of recurrence. Maybe a better term would be "potential treatment". However, since we don't have any proven treatments yet, the possibility of one - especially one that doesn't involve surgery or powerful drugs - is well worth pursuing. (Which I am, by the way - started meditation late last year, still working on improving the diet.)

 

@Kste Adams Well said. And I really cannot speak about the long term cases beyond speculation, but the reason why I might suspect it may work for long term tinnitus sufferers, is because theoretically it would rebuild the damaged auditory pathway. I can't prove it, but my gut says that if that pathway were repaired (aka the hair cell was fixed and the sound signal was a full circuit again), then the brain would know that there was no reason for the aberrant signal. In other words, according to my hypothesis, the input would take the place of the aberrant tinnitus signal. And I know that there are cases where the auditory nerve is cut and tinnitus persists, but there are no cases in which the hair cell/pathway was rejuvenated and the tinnitus persists. They simply do not have the technology to observe such an occurrence, or know how to make it happen, or know when it happens. Studying the hair cells in vivo in a human is simply not possible right now due to the cochlea's location.

 

@bill 112 Bill, I forgot to respond to your most recent post. An anecdotal instance in which a case resolved itself “spontaneously” is simply not adequate evidence for or against anything. This word spontaneously is thrown around a lot by the prevailing medical establishments, but it doesn’t mean anything. It implies that something happened without reason, out of nowhere, as though it were magic. The truth is, nothing in this world truly happens spontaneously. For every alleged spontaneous thing that has ever happened, there has been a real cause for it. Just because it is not immediately observable with the naked eye doesn’t mean it occurred spontaneously.

Take the Louis Pasteur experiment, for example. People used to think that flies would arise spontaneously from rotting meat. They thought the flies would just come out of nowhere like magic, because they never saw where the flies came from. Then he put the meat in a jar and covered the top, and observed that no flies were present. Of course we all know now that flies merely come and lay their larvae inside the meat giving the impression of a seemingly magical apparition of many flies.

Just because one can’t readily observe why something takes place doesn’t mean that the universe just “made it happen” randomly. It doesn’t make sense. Maybe at Hogwarts, but not in this universe.

I suspect the reason conventional medical establishments use this vernacular is intentional use of smoke and mirrors to blur your understanding until pharmaceutical companies have enough time to develop some drug that they can market to you (likely with terrible side effects and a risk of death, like every drug). They want to be able to sell you what you think you NEED. This is the basis of pharmaceuticals, and capitalism for that matter. You are supposed to be the dumb, compliant consumer because that is who makes them the most money.

 

Yes. Corporate business have done some really fucked up stuff here in the world. It's all about doing the most profit possible on the expense of other people. No respect for human lives. Some of those CEO's should be hanged because of all the suffering they have caused.

 

@Kste Adams Here's an interesting fact- when you eat a vegetable, part of the reason why it is so healthy is because of the plant's built in defenses, which cause a beneficial stress response in the human body. When a plant is grown in mineral deficient soil, the defenses cannot be created properly. This results in the use of toxic chemicals like pesticides and herbicides, because the natural defenses are dysfunctional and cannot keep away pests adequately (not to mention an inferior nutrient content).

But this is also a microcosm for what happens to us-

Whereas plants are treated with toxic chemicals to cover up the symptoms of their underlying malnourishment, we too are treated with toxic chemicals to cover up the symptoms of ours - with drugs.

But they are just that. Symptoms, not the actual problem.

 

Yes! That's one of the reasons we should tear up our lettuce and other greens when we fix a salad. The leaves will produce defenses in response to the damage, thus making them more beneficial. The fresher the greens, the greater the response. Sounds hokey, but I think it's been pretty reliably demonstrated.

Off to tear up some kale for breakfast...

 

Interesting, although I feel like you'd just get the response from chewing it, I feel like breaking it is merely for convenience of eating it. It seems redundant that breaking it would be required for the effect.

BUT- let's not get too off topic. I don't want people to look at this forum and just see us talking about plants and then fail to make the connection to the implications this has for our own immune system, and what I suspect more and more is a cure for tinnitus.

 

While I am wholly dedicated to eating a pure, organic, vegetarian diet, I draw the line at kale for breakfast!

You are a bold spirit, @Kste Adams !

And now, back to my oatmeal ...

 

@Eric S I think the nutrition discussion is a vitally important one, in this or any other forum. It's a topic that some people have discovered and read up on, but that many either ignore or neigh-say to. And the modern "food industry" IS an abomination. ANYONE can do better, for any reason, by adopting healthier eating.

I think the cure for tinnitus, though, involves a multi-pronged set of approaches, depending on the many variables that go into the specific cases of tinnitus in the different people who have it.

Diet is one major helper.

I don't think it's going to be the 100% answer.

That said, I will repeat: ANYONE can do better, for any reason, by adopting healthier eating.

And I will add: Become educated about why eating organically-produced food, avoiding dairy, avoiding refined sugars, etc. is the best nutritional path to follow.

We all (mostly) have been raised eating lots of stuff that really isn't good for us but which is the cultural offering that's presented to us. Food becomes a major part of social gatherings and a daily "emotional comfort" for stress relief.

So it takes a personal effort and individual journey for people to re-tool the way they think about and eat their food.

Once you do it, though, the rewards - physically, emotionally, mentally - are enormous.

 

@Path Maker I'm not claiming that this idea will cure 100% of the cases of tinnitus (although the more and more I learn and think about it, the more I feel adequate dietary changes could have a good success rate). But here's what we know:

Conventional western medical practice is largely a fucking sham, as the med school curriculum is determined by the pharmaceutical companies. This is true look it up. We can all see it too. What happens when you go to the doctor with a problem? They go "Here's a prescription. Now pay us, and also pay us every time you need more. Oh by the way, you have to take it forever." These toxic chemical concoctions are not needed by the body. Nutrients are. But good health isn't very profitable for pharmaceutical companies. You think it's coincidence that the media fails to publish nutritional discoveries that show that many (if not all) chronic diseases can be successfully, cheaply and permanently treated by proper nutrition? Think again. Monopolies benefit off each other at the expense of all of us. They don't give a fuck, as long as they get their inflated paycheck.

 

As with everything in life, there is the good, the bad, and the ugly. And the pretty Let's not forget the pretty

But seriously, yes, there is a lot of unthinkingness going on regarding nutrition. And way too many "pills" for things. And mega-conglomerates and greed and etc.

That said, there are lots and lots and lots of highly trained and skilled doctors with years of study and clinical experience and great talent, who ARE perceptive and gifted. Let's give THEM that credit, too.

Not all western medical practice is a "sham." It is up to the patient and the doctor to work together, and up to the patient to find a good doctor to work with.

I am glad for western medicine. I am glad for eastern medicine. I am glad for internet research ability. I am glad for everything from the scientific to the esoteric.

It all has to be run through a personal filter of reasoning and sound intuition. Then, proceed from there. With a difficult condition like tinnitus, it takes a lot more effort, creativity, persistence, etc. to work toward a resolution.

I do know that if I had a raging, life-threatening emergency, I surely would accept whatever trained and skilled help I could get when I needed it.

 

Agreed and well said!

I have a couple of other health issues besides tinnitus and have spent a lot of time with doctors and a lot of time making sure my diet is (give or take a few minor differences) paleo. Though I'd like to note I never set out to be paleo, I set out to eat as healthily as possible for my conditions and when I look at a paleo diet, they're essentially the same. It's not because "that's how our ancestors ate" - those just happen to be the things that best fuel a body.

It's also important to note that exercise can't be left out of the equation. If you're eating amazingly well, growing your own produce on your organic farm and raising your own grass-fed beef and eating seasonal fruits - it wont matter as much if you're sitting on the sofa soaking of netflix 12 hours a day. Nothing against netfilx though - love me some internet tv. Just wanted to note that if you want to talk ancestors - humans used to have to move a lot more than we do and different types of movement actively make a difference in how your body works. Things like anxiety and depression can also wildly change how your body processes food etc., so meditation can help, getting adequate SLEEP is huge - a lot of things (food included) go into having as well-functioning a body as you can.

That said, having a well-planned diet has changed a lot of things for me, I have more energy, my skin is more clear, my mood is better. There is no question it makes a difference. It certainly hasn't made my T go away, but it makes me better able to deal with any stress that T might cause. There are plenty of things wrong with the food and medical systems in the united states, but I am wildly grateful for western medicine, it isn't all a sham, it's just a collection of knowledge (which sometimes is delivered or twisted in a poor manner) - I would not be alive without it and diet, movement, meditation and sleep simply are not always enough - we're still mortal, and sometimes a little extra help is needed. You just have to make sure you're taking all information sent your way with a grain of salt.

 

Maybe you have a good opinion in this case...
@Cityjohn

 

@Path Maker I mean sure, medicine as we know it isn't 100% useless. Maybe just a very very vast majority. Medications are useful short term, as in pain medicines post surgery. But never for chronic diseases, as far as I can see.

@awbw8 You made some good points, but you also refuted one of your own arguments. You say eating raw/paleo/whatever people wanna call it shouldn't be done just because our ancestors ate that, it just "happens to be what best fuels a body". Well why do you think it's what best fuels a body? It's because it's what we evolved to eat over many many many years. Our ancestors thus happened to eat it because their lives predated the abominations that plague our health today. If you look at everything within an evolutionary context, everything begins to fit together quite logically. Why do people in hot climates have darker skin? This is an example of evolution that we all know well. But there are SO many more that we don't talk about.

For example, why do prehistoric humans have nearly perfect teeth and mandibular alignment? They didn't have braces so how could that happen? We spend thousands of dollars on orthodontics but malocclusion and crooked teeth are a relatively recent phenomenon. Why don't you ever see wild animals with bad alignment?

The reason they had straight teeth and perfect occlusions is because they had proper nutrition, but also their diet involved far more chewing. This chewing caused the masticatory muscles to stress the osteocytes in the mandible to form a more square jaw. A similar mechanism is responsible for the increase in bone density that people who do resistance training benefit from.

Also, it was in this time that we developed wisdom teeth. Once our jaws were stressed to grow larger and more square from proper chewing stress and nutrition, there was then enough room in the mouth structurally for these teeth to grow in perfectly. This is still seen in some isolated cultures today which maintain a relatively similar diet. But what do we see today? We see wisdom teeth growing in from strange directions because the nutrition and biomechanical stress was not sufficient to grow the jaw properly, and so they are extracted (for a price, of course).

These examples are everywhere. The context of whence we came ought to be considered lest you buy into the bullshit people are peddling today. Most of these so called professionals don't know the underlying mechanisms of the very ailment they claim to fix.

 

It's okay to be passionate about a topic.

It's also good to consider each specific issue from a dispassionate and carefully considered vantage point.

For example, I'll bet the reason many of us are alive and able to be typing on this forum could be that we didn't die of polio or German measles as children. Because ... we were vaccinated.

(Now, before we veer off into vaccines, and all that implies - because I also happen to worry about thimerisol and autism and stuff - it is also a truth that in many instances, they serve us and serve us well.)


As to chronic diseases, I agree. A multi-faceted approach is most useful. Not simply loading up on pills and getting/staying sicker.

It's all about balance, discernment, participating in your own medical journey, and etcetera. <<--

The "etcetera" means I am getting tired and hungry and it's time for a nice organic lunch.

 

Eric, I actually didn't refute my own argument - I was just noting that I hadn't set out to be paleo for the sake of being paleo. I live in New York and it's quite a fad. I just meant that in looking to be healthy, not just buying into a fad, I had arrived at a diet quite similar (though not identical) to a paleo one. I was saying I ended up with that diet not merely out a desire to "be how our ancestors were" but because it is still indeed, apparently, the best way to eat. I wasn't arguing with you (actually more supporting you), or even responding to you specifically

 

Yes, Eric, you've posted important points here. I've said that from the beginning. I think many people on this forum are in agreement about sound and healthy nutrition.

There are many people here who suffer from more moderate to severe tinnitus, and have suffered for way longer than mere months (and believe me, I don't say that lightly, for I have suffered through these past several "mere" months, and there's nothing "mere" about them!). It's important to be sensitive to the fact that not everyone can achieve results based on diet alone. (If you read around this forum, you will encounter these stories, and they hurt.)

I am in absolute agreement with you about the importance of a better diet being a crucial foundation for health - both overall health and specific health.

You have some good information on nutrition to post. It would be cool to see suggestions and tips. (As I think we've established that the standard diet is harmful and that the better more natural diet is helpful.). Might we at this point take the conversation into the realm of tips and suggestions???

 

@Path Maker I would highly suggest looking into the videos/interviews that Dr. Terry Wahls has on youtube. This is still the most compelling evidence I offer in favor of the theory that I have presented in this thread, because I simply cannot prove the mechanism behind my own tinnitus disappearing, only give an educated hypothesis (and it is quite educated, mind you).

Her story however, is quite solid support for what I am saying, and here's why: Progressive multiple sclerosis is neurological in nature, as it affects the central nervous system. It is the result of dysfunction. Tinnitus is also neurological in nature, as it affects the central nervous system. It too, it is safe to say, is the result of dysfunction. Notice how it is progressive multiple sclerosis. This caliber of disease is no joke, and it had persisted for years. Am I saying they are the exactly the same? No. But what I'm having trouble getting across to people is the mere possibility that they might be similar. There are signs that point to yes. Are they guarantees? No.

Also, you definitely want to look up "Triage Theory", which is a concept getting a ton of attention within the relevant scientific community. It's pretty critical in my reasoning.

Also guys, Beethoven had tinnitus (among many other health problems) and also went almost if not completely deaf. While the acoustic instruments of the day could maybe do a little bit of hearing damage, I highly doubt they could bring someone to near deafness. A more likely cause would be the fact that he drank wine fortified with lead on a regular basis. So be mindful of heavy metals, folks.

 

@Eric S

The Tinnitus Research Initiative has a workgroup on nutritional balance. You can contact the head and get more information:
http://tinnitusresearch.org/en/structure/workgroups_en.php

Also in the past, TT members have been trying different diets. Last year, there was a flurry of messages about ketogenic diet (mainly driven by @joseph Ghass )

 

I'm flattered that you'd appreciate my opinion I've read the thread and I'll try to put it succinctly but I may fail slightly here. I've market the sections with titles to make it easier to read.

CNS/PNS growth theory
The central nervous system (CNS) unlike the peripheral one (PNS) does not have the ability to heal itself for reasons I am not yet completely familiar with but it is nevertheless the overwhelming consensus and that can not be disregarded. I pulled up a few studies but none specify a why because science is more concerned with how's. It stands to perfect reason that the CNS does not grow out of control because the neural net in our CNS regulates thought nowadays, so it may be an evolutionary advantage simply caused by the inhibition of the metabolism required to sprout connections as some suggest.
When we get the Join the Dots project started this is a question that will have to be answered with the help of the entire community. We can all learn how to search for relevant studies and recognize valuable data and add to the project.

Growth factor triggers
There are currently multiple, be it proposed or not, treatments that may or may not work for tinnitus all based on the idea that alive albeit damaged cells in the CNS can be made to sprout new dendritic and axonal connections. For example Neurotrophin-3 or LLLT. Both are meant to increase the concentration of growth factor significantly in the tissue. One by directly injecting growth signaling proteins and the other by providing the cytokinse c oxidase electron aspirating proteins with the electrons to start churning out ATP and signal for increases in growth factor.

Diet, tinnitus, and hearing loss
It is true that if your hearing improves you will likely lose some or all of the tinnitus if hearing loss was your problem in the first place. But he pathway from your ear to the brain is intertwined with many other pathways that all can cause tinnitus, or an increase thereof. Then again it may also help us find a decrease in our tinnitus.
An example is hormone levels, such as produced during stress. There is of course a connection between diet, the stomach, and the auditory nerves, the vagus nerve for example. To understand how all this exactly correlates to one another it seems that it would take a single genius 100 years of studying and ethically borderline experimentation.
I've found the body to be quite impossible to model but we're trying nevertheless in the Join the Dots project.

The paleo-tinnitus hypothesis vs. medical science
We can hypothesize that a paleo diet will promote CNS growth factor increases and could cause a decrease in tinnitus or increase in hearing. The logical next step is the design of an experiment.
It's not wise to dismiss science or medicine as malice when it can be so easily attributed to collective, not individual stupidity based around our individualism. Think of it like this, every researcher has his or her personal goals, none of which have anything to do with the general public. Then there is also the fact that scientific literature by definition lags behind on reality by about ten years. Good academic medical professionals are twice times as astute as I am, and far better educated.

Diet factor in tinnitus for me personally
Simply touting that the paleo diet is so much better than 'normal' is an easy thing especially with the crap some people eat today but I myself haven't eaten sugar or drunken soda pop for nearly 7 years, I cook fresh lean meats with potatoes and carrots, and ate a lot of fruit every day. I've even been a natural body builder eating as healthy as humanly possible, yet I developed tinnitus while eating one really bad dish on campus.

Paleo is not well defined
Whatever our opinions the scientific method is there for a reason, and we have to apply it to learn more. If benefits of the paleo diet have any truth in it than it would stand to reason that our genetic differences would appear in our diets. Therefor different people would have to eat different things, this has never been made clear in the paleo diet.
It's also worth mentioning that the Paleo diet is trademarked solely for profit, whereas general medicine is not. There are a few things in the paleo diet such as fish which is actually quite a bad idea to be eating so often given the current state of fish farming, and fish scams or coloring on the market. And too many nuts will raise levels of phytic acid, too many fruits will raise levels of fructose, so on.

Diet comes second to sound levels
A major factor I feel is left unmentioned here is that not only the diet but also the sound landscape has changed dramatically since the stone age. The entire world was as loud as people talking then, when you are near a busy street you are being subjected to a 100 times the load we are genetically made for. When you enter a stadium it's 1000 times. A concert 10.000 times. See where I'm going with this, let's not mention a construction site.
If anything can be taken away from the philosophy of treating our bodies to their intended use it's the sound exposure first, diet second.

Designing the experiment for the paleo-tinnitus hypothesis
Regardless, @Eric S Would you be willing to capitalize on your hypothesis by making a few datasheets to design a trial study? One with everything allowed in the paleo diet, and one with many recipes for people doing the experiment so that they have more than enough variation for three weeks. We can ask people here to try the diet for three weeks and record their tinnitus and hearing daily for about 3 minutes. I will design the tests that people can do at home so that we can objectively and precisely track improvements and do the statistical analysis. If people are willing to participate of course.
We would need to have an equally large group that eats everything but the paleo diet, but I think it can be done eventually on tinnitustalk and it could yield an interesting study. It would help if there was a theoretical basis to presume that the paleo diet would help our bodies but there is none as of yet that I'm familiar with, perhaps you could shed some light on any anatomical theory behind it.

Good thread.

 

If anyone wants to read an excellent resource for nutritional healing, here it is:

http://www.chrisbeatcancer.com

 

No-one truly understands the pathophysiology of tinnitus. This is unfortunately likely to be the case for a long time, as the funtionality of the brain is not well understood. The auditory nerve travels through several different parts of the brain which makes the hearing system very complex. There are a lot of factors that can interefere and influence our hearing, which are not related to diet.
A healthy diet is beneficial but not the likely candidate of a cure for tinnitus.

 

Sorry if I am misunderstanding you, and I hope I don't come across as rude, but what do you mean you don't see a theoretical basis to presume that paleo would help our bodies? Have you read any of this thread?

I'm tired of typing. Here's a video. (note this is from 7 years ago, and she has improved far more since then)

Food As Medicine: Brain Health, part 1

 

@Tweaker I agree with everything that you've said here except that our diet is an unlikely candidate for a cure. Tinnitus occurs within a network of neurons and other nerve cells. We know new neurons are made every day. We also know the integrity and function of these cells depend on what we eat. Where do you think the body is getting the resources to create new cells?

 

Eric, the factors I'm talking about that can influence our hearing that are not diet related are for example: external noise, stress/trauma.

 

Ah, yes of course, I would have to agree with you haha. BUT the other factor that you are forgetting that can also influence our hearing for the better (whose existence is demonstrated by anyone who once had tinnitus but now no longer does) are whatever cells make tinnitus go away. These cells must necessarily exist, otherwise tinnitus would never go away ever. So then we need to consider that these cells require energy/materials to perform their duty, if they are anything like any other biological cell in existence. THIS must come from food.

 

There are some positive influences also such as meditation. I have read some scientific papers which conclude mindful meditation can alter the neurological pathways of the brain and improve tinnitus for some folk. The brain is amazingly plastic and can change. I'm not saying diet can not influence our hearing but there are other factors.

 

Important update: just found this AMA on Reddit with Terry.

Id like you guys to read this quote from one of her responses:


"DrTerryWahls[S] 9 points 2 years ago

There is increased recognition that MS is a syndrome - that it is many different diseases that have similar symptoms that are all collectively diagnosed as MS. The underlying factors that contribute to the symptoms are a mix of infection exposures, toxins like mercury or other heavy metals, B12 deficiency and other vitamin deficiencies, gluten sensitivities - and the person's unique DNA (efficiency of your enzymes for metabolizing B vitamins for example). We all have a unique mix of our DNA and those environmental factors. Therefore how readily one improves depends on a mix of how many lifestyle interventions you adopt, how fully you adopt them, your DNA etc."
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/20f6eg/

I highlighted the keywords in red. Do these words sound familiar to any of you? What else do they say is widely becoming recognized as a symptom? I'll give you a hint, it starts with "T" and rhymes with "innitus".

 

I could write a novel here, but I will simply state the following. In america, the food/drug/medical machines view us not as humans, but consumers; once you understand this, many things begin to make sense.