Has Anyone Ever Valsalva'd Their ETD (or Related Conditions) Away?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Irish, Feb 20, 2018.

    1. Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      I have what appears to be ETD for the last two years now (mostly in my left ear) and some Hyperacusis.

      The latter I can probably live with but the former I don't think so, at least not for the rest of my life anyway!

      My ENT has advised me to try doing the Valsalva manouevre many times every day for about a month to see if it helps.

      If that doesn't work, then the options are either a grommet in the worse affected ear, or the balloon dilation procedure.

      Both of these are very expensive operations, over 1,500 euro (per ear) although it's possible that my health insurance will cover at least part of this (tbc).
      Anyway, my question is in the subject line.

      Has this worked for any of you? particularly if you have ETD?

      I'm about a week in and absolutely no change whatsoever in my condition, but I will keep at and let's see if there's an improvement.

      Any useful comments/thoughts/suggestions welcomed.
       
    2. carlover
      English

      carlover Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London
      Tinnitus Since:
      1986
      Hello Irish I hunted out this for you from a TOP dentist who specialises in TMJ issues and the effect on eustatchion tubes .......I quote maybe food for thought ............Eustachian Tube / Palatal Muscle Exercises

      . Do not use the Valsalva maneuver which is pinching your nostrils and blowing through your nose. This is the most commonly used technique, but might not be the best one for you. One problem with the Valsalva maneuver is that it doesn't activate muscles that open the eustachian tubes, so it may not work if the tubes are already locked by a pressure differential. It's also easy to blow hard enough to damage something. Instead of using the Valsalva, try one of these:

      * The Toynbee Maneuver. With your nostrils pinched, swallow. Swallowing pulls open your eustachian tubes while the movement of your tongue, with your nose closed, compresses air against them.

      * The Lowry Technique. A combination of Valsalva and Toynbee: While closing your nostrils, blow and swallow at the same time.

      * The Edmonds Technique. While tensing the soft palate (the soft tissue at the back of the roof of your mouth) and throat muscles and pushing the jaw forward and down, do a Valsalva maneuver.

      * The Frenzel Maneuver. Close your nostrils, and close the back of your throat as if straining to lift a weight. Then make the sound of the letter "K." This forces the back of your tongue upward, compressing air against the openings of your eustachian tubes.

      * Voluntary Tubal Opening. Tense the muscles of the soft palate and the throat while pushing your jaw forward and down as if starting to yawn. These muscles pull the eustachian tubes open. This requires a lot of practice, but some people can learn to control those muscles and hold their tubes open for continuous equalization.
       
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    3. dazraf

      dazraf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      loud music
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    4. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      TT member @Telis had much worsening of his tinnitus from doing the Valsalva maneuver. He wrote, "My tinnitus started from doing the Valsalva maneuver repeatedly, then worsened by antibiotic ear drops." Link.

      Personally, I wouldn't do it. Telis has extremely severe tinnitus now. There's no way to know what kind of result you'll have.
       
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    5. dazraf

      dazraf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      loud music
      But https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-battle-with-tinnitus-was-over.21013/
      hasnt ? everyone is different. My audiologist said that doing it without excessive force should be fine
       
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    6. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      I agree 100% that everyone is different. It just seems me that something could go wrong if the Valsalva maneuver isn't done exactly right. I was honestly afraid to try it, even when I was desperate for relief from severe tinnitus.

      Do as much research as you possibly can. It sounds like you trust your doc, which is good, but even audiologists make mistakes.
       
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    7. Bill Bauer
      No Mood

      Bill Bauer Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Damn.

      After my acoustic trauma, I got ear fullness. I did Valsalva maneuver numerous times. 11 days after my acoustic trauma, I got T. Reading the above, makes me suspect that I might have given myself the gift of T by doing that Valsalva maneuver......................
       
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    8. Bill Bauer
      No Mood

      Bill Bauer Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      It is not just @Telis
      I might have given the one to give T to myself.................
       
    9. Cheza
      Wishful

      Cheza Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Oregon
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barking dogs/stress
      Tinnitus doesn't always appear right after acoustic trauma. Sometimes it takes a while. A sensation of fullness in the ear following acoustic trauma or exposure to excess decibels is one sign of impending tinnitus.

      The last thing anyone needs is to beat themselves up about how they got tinnitus (or any other affliction).
       
    10. Bill Bauer
      No Mood

      Bill Bauer Member Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      February, 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trauma
      Thank you, @Cheza . I guess the fact that my T began hours or days after the last time I had performed that maneuver, is also some evidence against the hypothesis that I gave T to myself.
       
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    11. Yashin

      Yashin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1968
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Penalty save
      @Irish Did you self-diagnose with ETD?

      In my opinion, instead of ETD, you could have TTTS.

      Look at the post I just wrote in this thread: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/new-to-hyperacusis.27291/

      And tell me what you think.
       
    12. Frizz
      Confused

      Frizz Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      January, 2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Elephant ear washer (Ear syringing)
      For what it's worth, I tried one gentle yet sustained valsalva a month ago when I had ETD. I heard a rather violent pop and thought I burst an ear drum, but doctors found nothing obvious. At first I thought not much of it, but the state of my left ear has progressively worsened with tinnitus, fullness, noise sensitivity, and mild hearing loss (and only that ear) which makes me wonder if I ruptured my inner ear.

      Honestly, just don't do it. Chew gum or swallow something instead. People talk about bursting an ear drum with the maneuver, but the real risk is wrecking your round window, which is brutal, can take forever to heal, and often requires invasive surgery. At this rate I might need it myself. :/
       
    13. dazraf

      dazraf Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      loud music
      Guys, i do several ones a day, i even got the ear popper machine. You dont have to be violent with it.
       
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Hi @Yashin, thanks a lot for your reply on this.
      Now that I think of it, I did self diagnose with ETD, but when I went to the consultant, and after doing the required ear tests in Beacon Audiology in Dublin, the consultant agreed that it was ETD and Hyperacusis, with some hearing loss in the right ear (the one that is much less affected by my ETD, or what I think is ETD).
      The left ear has normal hearing, but it's the one that gives me daily discomfort, some fullness, low level pain and clicking/popping, on most days.
      My ear problems started from acoustic shock (sustained extremely loud music in a club for an hour or so), and then made worse by ear infections over a number of weeks.
      The strange thing is the ETD/TTTS was much lesser in the beginning with daily T and H much more of an issue.
      The T gradually faded after a few months, but the H remained and the ETD/TTTS became more prominent and has more or less remained to this day.
      So I'm not sure if I should go back to doing the Valsalva or not.
      Perhaps @carlover's suggestions earlier are worth a try.
       
    15. Yashin

      Yashin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1968
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Penalty save
      @Irish

      Doctors are not thinkers and they don’t have this kind of problems. They just say what is written in the manual (and this goes also for the Hazell wannabes in forums, a very peculiar lineage, for sure). But what happens if the manual is wrong?

      I ask you some questions:

      1- How did you doctor diagnose you with Hyperacusis?

      2- How did you doctor diagnose you with ETD?

      3- What do you mean by “hyperacusis”? Sound intolerance or increased loudness perception? If it is the latter, do you hear louder all the sounds or just sounds beyond certain volume, or sounds of certain kind? If it is sound intolerance, is it psychological intolerance or you can’t tolerate certain sounds because you have physical sensations or discomfort in the ear?
       
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    16. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Thanks for replying @Yashin
      Answers to the questions:
      1) I saw two consultants, the first diagnosed me with Recruitment, but the second (better consultant in my opinion)said I had Hyperacusis

      2) He examined my ears, also how my eardrums behaved during Valsalva and Toynbee and also my hearing test results and tympannometry and other tests.

      3) By Hyperacusis, I mean both some sound intolerance and also increased loudness perception. Voices in enclosed spaces certainly seem louder to me and create a kind of discomfort and pressure on my ears it feels like.
      High pitched sounds are also a bit more irritating for me now, for instance the sound of dishes and cutlery clanking together is uncomfortable, but usually tolerable, also a child's shriek, that can be quite uncomfortable, albeit tolerable up to a point. I guess I am not an extreme case. My LDL's are circa 95dB-97dB from what I recall.
      Certainly the ETD, if it is indeed that, is significantly more of a problem for me than the Hyperacusis/Recruitment which I have somewhat acclimatised to.
       
    17. Yashin

      Yashin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1968
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Penalty save
      @Irish

      Thanks for your feedback.


      “Hyperacusis” means nothing. It is like going to a doctor with a broken toe. Of course, it hurts, so the doctor diagnoses you with “Pain”, and because it hurts more when you walk, he tells you that you have “Hyperkinetics”. So you think... “Tell me something I don't know!”, and so on.


      It is not clear how your doctor arrived to such a conclusion, but I could imagine (questionnaire, LDLs and other tests). An LDL test, in the case of the broken toe, is as if the doctor presses your toe with his finger (or with an especial machine designed to this task), to see how much pressure you can tolerate before feeling pain.


      Of course, this is only a satirical analogy. And in the case you have TTTS, the difference is that a broken toe doesn't respond to your psychology, in the way the tension in a tensor tympani muscle does. And in TTTS there is nothing broken.


      As far as I know, there is no way for the moment to measure TTTS, there is no way to diagnose it objectively. Diagnosis is only possible asking the right questions, understanding about the matter, and listening to the description of the patient. The fact is that most ENT doctor doesn't even know that TTTS exists.


      Again as far as I know, a tympanometry, as it is regularly tested, doesn't show anything about "ttts". Maybe the stapedius reflex threshold is lower that in normal ears. Anyway, it is not recommended doing that test, because it worsens the symptoms. I think Klockhoff recorded the impedance fluctuations in a prolonged period of time, not in the way clinics do it, and probably he chose some of his worst patients. The fact is that apparently the tensor tympani works “normally”, only that it is in a state of tension or nervousness.


      You have the classic symptoms that almost everybody in this section of the forum has.


      In my opinion, it is clear as water that you have this “ttts”. Because you have fullness and sound intolerance, especially with the typical sounds (dishes, children, etc). You were exposed to a situation of loud sounds beyond your tolerance, which you called an “acoustic shock”. And I had also read this post by you before writing my first post here https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/anyone-know-what-this-condition-is.19606/


      Perhaps your doctor thought "fullness + clicks = ETD", but he didn't consider the whole picture. Maybe he is a good doctor, and I don't know exactly what he saw in your tests to diagnose you with ETD (you could ask him!). I don't know if you have ETD, apart from TTTS, but that would be very rare.


      Go to those fast elevators in a modern and high buildings, and feel for yourself how it feels like to have ETD. I believe it is another kind of fullness. The fullness of TTTS I think it's a consequence of tension in the muscles, and you could also feel, not always, concrete sensations, from little thumps to crawling or fluttering sensations.


      Don't you have some of these sensations, sometimes, even just little thumps when you are with your ear against the pillow, at night, or after an exposure to strong sounds? You said your left ear was the worst one. Do you have more fullness, or you also have some specific sensations? And when you yawn openly? Pain?


      P.S. If your LDL is really 95 db, Jastreboff probably would tell you that you have "misophonia". And we would diagnose him with "chronic ignorance", a pathology which, at his age, is irreversible. Even if your LDL was 70 db, he would say you have a mixture of "misophonia" and "hyperacusis", what would be doubly confusing.
       
    18. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Many thanks @Yashin, this is really useful information.

      From reading your descriptions above, yes it does point moreso to TTTS than ETD.
      I do occasionally get little thumps or flutters in my left ear, but they pass after a few seconds, and I might not experience them again for weeks and only for very short periods.
      Interestingly this just happens randomly and doesn't seem to be connected to any loud sounds around me.
      I do have fullness in both ears, moreso in the left ear, but somehow I am not as aware of it as before.
      Perhaps I have become accustomed to it, to some extent.
      The daily clicking/crackling, discomfort and tenderness in my left ear though, persists (and mildly in the right).
      The tenderness/pain is in the ear canal area, but not very far 'in' to the ear, if you know what I mean.

      Also, here's a post I wrote some time ago on a hearing problems website, and you can see the advice the doc gave me.
      http://hearinglosshelp.com/blog/do-i-have-tonic-tensor-tympani-syndrome-ttts/#comment-15810
      I bought that book and it points to Sound Therapy as probably being the best way to resolve my issues.
      It seems that TTTS and related TTTS like symptoms can be alleviated or at least improved by using Sound Therapy (I would also include WNGs in that).
      This is the step I haven't taken yet due to the cost of it, but I am in a better position financially now, so this may well be my next step, sometime over the coming months.
      One last point is that I haven't been as good with taking Magnesium this year or in doing regular exercise.
      Both of these may help matters, so that's something else I intend to remedy in coming months.
       
    19. dingaling
      Relaxed

      dingaling Member

      Location:
      London UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown, probably loud music
      @Irish What were the results of your tympanometry? What were the pressure readings? Did you have stapedial reflexes done?
       
    20. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Hi @dingaling, I need to look them up, have them at home, but I remember the ENT saying my Tympanometry results were normal. Not sure that I had my stapedius reflex checked...
       
    21. dingaling
      Relaxed

      dingaling Member

      Location:
      London UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown, probably loud music
      If you can come back here with (specifically) the pressures, or post a picture, that would be useful
       
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    22. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      I haven't located my Tympannometry results from 2016, so I need to contact my original consultant re getting those sent out to me.
      However I did find the more recent hearing tests and audiogram that was done last year with the second consultant, so I can attach those.
      I notice that one of the tests refers to 'tympanograms' (under the 'Immitance Audiometry' heading) and indicates that it's normal.
      I know I have some hearing loss on my right side at the 4KHz side, but it's not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.
      Perhaps you can glean something from these results @dingaling or @Yashin?

      Thanks again for all of your advice and help.
       

      Attached Files:

    23. dingaling
      Relaxed

      dingaling Member

      Location:
      London UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown, probably loud music
      @Irish

      Thanks for posting. Tympanometry looks fine however, you may not have had ETD on the day of the test - resting middle ear pressure changes all the time and only a repeat test on a different day would help confirm diagnosis. You may have valsalvered just prior to the tympanometry causing a shift in middle ear pressure. From your results at face value, this doesn't appear to be ETD. Some immitance instruments can actually do Eustachian function tests where readings are taken after you valsalva or Toynbee which can be compared to baseline tympanometry
       
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    24. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Thanks @dingaling. I remember going in for those tests and I'm almost certain I was not doing any Valsalva or any other techniques to try and unblock my ears, so my instinct would be that those results are accurate.
      One thing I defintely have to a significant extent in my left ear is negative ear pressure (diagnosed).
      From reading these results and my previous comments, and considering that these results don't indicate that I have ETD, would you say there's a good chance I have TTTS?
       
    25. dingaling
      Relaxed

      dingaling Member

      Location:
      London UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown, probably loud music
      It would seem plausible given the other signs/symptoms you describe above but in the absence of obvious and sudden acoustic trauma and increase in anxiety state, TTTS isn't plausible. Obviously, difficult to say for definate on a forum
       
    26. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      Well, while I didn't have a sudden acoustic shock, I did have an hour long or so ridiculously loud speaker playing music not far from my head, which caused my H (and T which thankfully faded away after a few months).
      Even though I didn't have the TTTS/ETD at first, I do remember having some discomfort and slight pain in that left ear even back then, and it seemed to manifest itself gradually over the months afterwards, and there's no doubt I was in a heightened state of anxiety during those months.
      I was depressed, angry at myself, frustrated and stressed out as my job situation was becoming perilous due to my problems (and lack of understanding from my employer).
      So there was plenty of anxiety during that time, and I still have anxious times dealing with my current symptoms, albeit not to the same extent as those initial months.
      Anyway, regardless of what I have, it's looking like sound enrichment is probably the best avenue to go down for the time being.
      If nothing else it should improve my H somewhat over time and with lesser H symptoms, there is often an improvement in the other related ear issues that come with H (fullness, clicking, tenderness, etc).
      So I'm going to give that a shot.
      Thanks for all the help! :)
       
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    27. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Irish

      Irish Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music from nightclub
      This pdf is quite useful for anyone with T/H and suspected TTTS due to ASD.
      The last line is what I'm banking on (and I've seen this said in other publications too):
      "As TTTS develops from the way intolerable sound is perceived in the brain, using strategies aiming for tinnitus habituation/ hyperacusis desensitisation will reduce TTTS symptoms."
      http://www.whirledfoundation.org/wp...ic-Tensor-Tympani-Syndrome-Acoustic-Shock.pdf
       
    28. dingaling
      Relaxed

      dingaling Member

      Location:
      London UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      unknown, probably loud music
      Very useful article @Irish thanks for posting

      It's about reinventing that "love affair with sound" (in the right quantities) and reducing one's level of anxiety

      Hope it works for you
       
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    29. Yashin

      Yashin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1968
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Penalty save
      @Irish

      Yes, I think you have TTTS, now confirmed. But what you call “hyperacusis” is a consequence of TTTS, not a cause.

      It seems that I haven’t been clear enough. I will try to explain a bit further.

      There is not such a thing as a mental sound discomfort previous to TTTS. That idea is ridiculously wrong. What causes discomfort is the increased tension in the tensor tympani, the “elevated tensor tonus”, ad Klockhoff put it. And the level of discomfort, in general, is proportional to the level of tension or physical abnormality.

      I can guarantee you that when the TTs are relaxed, your hearing experience is exactly as before. Probably you have already experienced this, temporally. Or at least you have experienced certain fluctuation of the symptoms, as you described in your posts. I am sure we can agree that an “aversion to sound” (Jastreboff’s “misophonia”) couldn’t fluctuate so easily and without any reason, nor an abstract and undefined discomfort previous to TTTS (Westcott’s “hyperacusis”). Not even the cochlea could be damaged in a certain way that as a result it tenses the tensor tympani, and suddenly it gets repaired, without any logical reason, and then magically it gets damaged again. The fact is that only the muscle tension itself is responsible for the discomfort (with or without sounds). And, besides, why would we complicate our thoughts and go against common sense? (a question that should be raised to audiologists and to patients that accept easily any kind of nonsense)

      Jastreboff, who has no idea about this subject, thinks TTTS is a consequence of “misophonia”. And this is incredible wrong. If your TTs are tensed, and you hear a car horn next to you, it is bothersome because of the tension itself, not because your father was kissing a woman different from your mother when you were a boy, at the same time that your mother saw him from her car and sounded the horn, or because you developed a particular aversion for horns for unknown reasons, or because you lost that “love affair with sound”, as Dingaling suggested.

      Myriam Westcott, the audiologist who wrote the text that you linked, thinks TTTS is not a consequence of “misophonia”, contradicting his teacher Jastreboff, but a consequence of “hyperacusis”. She didn’t have TTTS and so she doesn’t know how it feels like. And she is assuming that there is an abstract discomfort previous to TTTS, maybe related to a sound processing problem, without any reason whatsoever to reach such a conclusion. She negates what is obvious, the fact that having a tight or vibrating muscle and tendon against the eardrum causes discomfort (with or without sounds), and also ignores what Klockhoff, the man who discovered this pathology, wrote in his paper. Or maybe Westcott thinks that the previous discomfort appears first and then it is added the TTTS, uncomfortable too, but the problem is that she can’t define this first discomfort, or if she tries to do it, she would end up describing TTTS itself, what would be the proof of the inexistence of this previous “hyperacusis”.

      Moreover, all the characteristics of the discomfort related by sufferers are the ones which belong to TTTS. Not only the evident physical particularities (fullness/tension, pain, thumps, and so on), but also two key particularities which are not analyzed in any medical texts. These particularities are : 1- the special discomfort provoked by certain sounds with a fast attack and with certain texture, even more if they are loud and close to the ears (a discomfort proportional to TT abnormally); 2- the comings and goings of the discomfort, and the so-called “setbacks”. These two circumstances are another proof that there is only one problem, TTTS, and that “hyperacusis” as a previous and mysterious dimension doesn’t exist.

      We can accuse Klockhoff for being brief and maybe cryptic, and for not mentioning a lot of things. But he never mentioned anything about an aversion to sounds, about conditioned reflexes, about a sound processing disorder, or about any link between the increased tonus and a cochlea pathology. He thought TTTS was merely a psychosomatic problem. And he was right, because only mind activity that could be consider as part of Psychology is what tenses the tensor tympanis. Psychosomatic, psycho-physiological, psycho-tensional, or whatever, call it what you want. It is what it is: the TTs got abnormally tensed, and then you repeat that operation, complicated by the slow-tonic nature of the muscles. Definitely this mechanism and these tiny structures are very delicate and not something to play with.

      The abnormal tension can be caused by a single sound incident (e.g. acoustic shock), or by different and cumulative incidents (e.g. someone who listens to music on headphones loud and often). And also it could be caused by reasons different from loud sounds.

      We don’t know if Westcott really doesn’t understand (mainly because she is too much influenced by the TRT theory), or she is just compromised by the business of TRT. I think it is about the former, but the latter is functional to the former. Think that she did the course with Jastreboff to get this supposed sophisticated knowledge (in fact, it is a wrong and precarious knowledge) and she wins a lot of money from offering the service. By reading her texts, I think she was about to understand the problem, but then accommodated her ideas to her practices.

      When I first wrote her by email, she answered me, but when I replied again saying how things really are (i.e. the self-sufficient nature of TTTS) she didn’t reply again, even if I was giving her important and first-hand information. So I don’t know if I convinced her. Now, if she writes something about the non-existence of a previous “hyperacusis”, probably you will remember me.

      And keep in mind that Westcott is not a TRT purist, because, as I said before, she thinks TTTS is seen in “hyperacusis” patients, not in “misophonia” ones (“hyperacusis” and “misophonia” are the two alleged branches of sound discomfort according to Jastreboff). But this sound intolerance is a consequence of TTTS, not a cause, for the aforementioned reasons.

      “Acoustic shock disorder” is another quite useless concept. It is presuming that there are TTTS symptoms only possible after a very loud, close, and unexpected sound. Maybe burning pain is more often to happen after an acoustic shock? Maybe. My point is that there is nothing entirely different. For Westcott, now you have “acoustic shock disorder”, “hyperacusis”, and “ttts”, when, from a medical point of view, you only have TTTS. It is not clear, really. You can get complicated TTTS-related symptoms without an acoustic shock, as I wrote before. Look all the different and terrible symptoms in the Klockhoff paper, all associated to the same phenomenon.

      If TTTS persists, it is not because “hyperacusis” or “ASD” is developed, as Westcott believes. It is because of TTTS itself. In the words of Klockhoff: “As regards therapy reassurance comes first: Information that the neurotizing symptoms need not signal a dangerous disease which the patients often have suspected with a circulus vitiosus as a result.”

      This is why some people recover in two days, and others have the problem for several years. But I don’t think the persistence of the problem is limited to the lack of “information that the neurotizing symptoms need not signal a dangerous disease”, though that is very important.
       
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    30. Yashin

      Yashin Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      1968
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Penalty save
      @Irish

      (Part 2)

      Neil Bauman is a good man, I wrote him like three years ago, and he wrote me back, like he did to you and a lot of people. He told me he is not a medical doctor and that he had deep hearing loss and “recruitment”, if such a thing really exists. But Bauman doesn’t understand TTTS properly either. Like all doctors (and patients), he just say what he read somewhere (articles by Westcott, Jastreboff, etc). He even wrote and sells an e-book about “hyperacusis”, which is just a short article with false information.

      As far as I remember, in this book he says that “hyperacusis” was a disorder by itself, where the sufferer hears “everything louder”, and which is incurable. All wrong. And he even suggests visiting the Hyperacusis.net forum, where Dan and Rob would help you.

      This “Rob” was the hidden administrator and moderator of the board, and at the same time posted as a normal user, with the purpose of giving partial information to confused and desperate people in order that they follow the pricey TRT treatment, which he never criticized. If posters didn’t live in a city with TRT clinics, Rob and Dan even suggested taking a plane and move to a remote city which has those clinics, investing even more money on this operation (a fortune, basically). If people wasn’t wealthy enough, they would recommend doing a DIY sound therapy with a pink noise CD which Dan sells and ships to whenever you live (as if you couldn’t download a sound on the Internet or there were not hundreds of smartphone’s apps with different sounds)

      There is a possibility that Rob was paid by Dr N to do that job. Or maybe by Jastreboff himself, Dr N’s friend. But Dr N was (is) a TRT clinician and an customary poster in forums, he likes the Internet, and it is more reasonably to think that he was Rob’s chief. I am not sure, but I think the three of them live in the same city. Anyway, if I am wrong, if Rob worked in the forum by himself and for free, that would be even worse.

      One day I asked Rob how was the discomfort produced by “hyperacusis”, and he was not able to answer (probably because he had to admit that the discomfort WAS “ttts”), and he lied to me openly saying that he was not the moderator. He banned me and deleted my account without previous warning, and did the same with other posters. Then his modus operandi was exposed by different posters who had the same kind of problems with Rob. Some weeks later Rob deleted his own account and stopped posting after 10 years of doing so. His girlfriend “Ann”, a sockpuppet he used to influence posters towards the TRT treatment, followed him to the Valley of Death (i.e. he deleted “Ann” account). Probably he controlled other accounts, but I don’t have time to investigate about this, I just read a few of his lasts posts.

      I am trying that you have an idea of how precarious, coarse and stupid all this business about “hyperacusis” is. And this business involves the TRT treatment, where you pay “qualified” and “trained” audiologists a fortune for showing you how ignorant they are (the TRT theory even admits that they don’t know how this “hyperacusis” is caused, and what logic it follows).

      My advice is not to follow any current commercial treatment. You don’t need to. Use your valuable money for something useful, a pair of good speakers, a bicycle, books, holidays or whatever you like.

      About how I think the TRT treatment “works” in some people, I just wrote post #41 in this thread https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/do-i-have-hyperacusis.26896/page-2#post-332587

      And Michael had a lot to win, because he was worse than you, he had loud tinnitus, and I think he didn’t pay for the “treatment”, he got it for free.

      Besides, if you want to try listening to broadband noise, you don’t have to visit a doctor and pay for it, just do it, playback the bloody noise!!!

      Ah, and if I am too late and you already went to the audiologist, I am sorry, I just saw your messages (R.I.P. your wallet)
       
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