How Bad Was Beethoven's Tinnitus and Hearing Loss in 20s and 30s?

jdjd09

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Jan 19, 2016
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Does anyone know the above? Is there anyone out there who has researched this well and knows (Andy historians or anyone else)?

Genuinely curious. If he managed on with hearing loss and severe tinnitus, while being a major composer, then that would be interesting to know.
 
Does anyone know the above? Is there anyone out there who has researched this well and knows (Andy historians or anyone else)?

Genuinely curious. If he managed on with hearing loss and severe tinnitus, while being a major composer, then that would be interesting to know.
By the time he went deaf, he already knew how instruments sound, and how all variables present in classical sheet music translate to an orchestra/instrument. so composing using sheet music is then a matter of writing directions. He could hear it all in his head. He then had to write instructions (sheet music) for orchestra's, and instrumentalists to follow. That era depended on the composure being able to communicate the music accurately in classical sheet music, so that it could be followed. Likewise, you don't need too good of hearing to conduct an orchestra, especially if you wrote the sheet music. If you can hear the tempo, and the volume of various sections to any degree, all the better, but by the time he went deaf, he could practically have done it deaf and blind, he was so experienced. though his sight probably helped him lots with que's from the orchestra.

If he was around today he wouldn't be doing any detailed mixing and mastering, thats for sure. Even with all the visual indicators present in modern day software/hardware, there's no substitution for your hearing. It's a different world. He was ironically alive at the ideal time for a musician to be deaf.
 
Beethoven was able to compose and even conduct music despite profound hearing loss and severe tinnitus. He was not able to perform though. I share the same birthday with Beethoven, though his was a couple of centuries earlier. Imagine suffering from tinnitus in the 1770's when there were no ENT doctors to tell you to learn to live with it!;)
 
Beethoven was able to compose and even conduct music despite profound hearing loss and severe tinnitus. He was not able to perform though. I share the same birthday with Beethoven, though his was a couple of centuries earlier. Imagine suffering from tinnitus in the 1770's when there were no ENT doctors to tell you to learn to live with it!;)


Horrific. The smile, laugh and handshake of the ENT as he waves you goodbye at the end of your tests is essential for a patients proces to cure. I wonder how he did without these.
 
Beethoven was able to compose and even conduct music despite profound hearing loss and severe tinnitus. He was not able to perform though. I share the same birthday with Beethoven, though his was a couple of centuries earlier. Imagine suffering from tinnitus in the 1770's when there were no ENT doctors to tell you to learn to live with it!;)

Composing and orchestrating music takes quite some skill. Some may say it takes even more skill, writing up the music and making it work.

@Lorac , Seeing you were a musician and take interest in these things, so you know how loud his tinnitus was probably and do you know when his hearing loss got really bad?
 
@Lorac , Seeing you were a musician and take interest in these things, so you know how loud his tinnitus was probably and do you know when his hearing loss got really bad?

I really don't see the link between being a musician and knowing how loud Beethoven's tinnitus was. Being a musician doesn't confer magical powers. At least, it didn't for me! ;)
 
image.jpeg
Here's a rare photo of him undergoing TRT,the maskers were so discreet nobody even knew he was wearing them!
 
I really don't see the link between being a musician and knowing how loud Beethoven's tinnitus was. Being a musician doesn't confer magical powers. At least, it didn't for me! ;)

Yes, but a musician, who has an interest in classical music, would probably know more about composers than the average person. Maybe not in every case, but I would say in at least some cases. So my question I feel is still a valid one. @Lorac , you can choose not to answer though if you don't know.
 
Yes, but a musician, who has an interest in classical music, would probably know more about composers than the average person. Maybe not in every case, but I would say in at least some cases. So my question I feel is still a valid one. @Lorac , you can choose not to answer though if you don't know.
His hearing issues and T was bad enough that he contemplated suicide frequently. But that really isn't indicative of the severity of the T and hearing loss he had, as that can come with any level of T as myself and many members on this forum indicate. His hearing loss was severe enough that he couldn't regularly perform the music he composed himself anymore, and he lost the ability to hear high notes first, and then later lower ones. Read the wikipedia linked, it's all there.

Interestingly this medical study says his hearing loss was likely caused by drinking lots of wine with lead in it. The most commonly accepted cause of his death is alcoholic liver disease/cirrhosis etc. He was the original rock star I guess.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23686526
 
By the time he went deaf, he already knew how instruments sound, and how all variables present in classical sheet music translate to an orchestra/instrument. so composing using sheet music is then a matter of writing directions. He could hear it all in his head. He then had to write instructions (sheet music) for orchestra's, and instrumentalists to follow. That era depended on the composure being able to communicate the music accurately in classical sheet music, so that it could be followed. Likewise, you don't need too good of hearing to conduct an orchestra, especially if you wrote the sheet music. If you can hear the tempo, and the volume of various sections to any degree, all the better, but by the time he went deaf, he could practically have done it deaf and blind, he was so experienced. though his sight probably helped him lots with que's from the orchestra.

If he was around today he wouldn't be doing any detailed mixing and mastering, thats for sure. Even with all the visual indicators present in modern day software/hardware, there's no substitution for your hearing. It's a different world. He was ironically alive at the ideal time for a musician to be deaf.


I might differ with your statement that "you don't need too good of hearing to conduct an orchestra". I'm not sure what you base this on or exactly what you mean. ASSUMING that the musicians are of high enough caliber to stay together in tempo AND play in tune with each other (obviously Beethoven would have been incapable of knowing if either was the case), all should go fine. But one can be conducting, even being able to hear, and still have trouble keeping a group at the tempo you want. Plus not being able to hear results in your not being able to gauge and regulate the balance between the orchestra sections, and so being able to control dynamics goes out the window as well. Intonation is relegated to the musicians being able to "tune as you go" as the saying has it. For intricate rhythmic passages in the music, you would have to rely again on your musicians as possessing a very developed sense of being able to listen to each other and stay on the beat. So while Beethoven indeed had to be able to hear everything in his mind, his aural conception of what he heard and what the audience and musicians heard could well have been vastly different. Undoubtedly, as you say, his being able to see certainly must have helped, but there are still a heap of variables that are not within your control if you can't actually hear what is going on. I'm not sure what you mean either when you say "that era depended on the composer being able to communicate the music accurately in classical sheet music, so that it could be followed". How is it different now? Present day symphonies still rely on written music notation and the skill of the director to bring forth the intentions of the composer. It always strikes me how the development of digital music software and production, effects devices, equalization, and the attendant technology that goes along with all that is basically meaningless when it comes to what a band or symphony orchestra does. Presenting a concert of modern or older band and orchestral music remains basically unchanged over time in terms of how the musicians play the music and how it is rehearsed and conducted. I taught instrumental music for 34 years, and it always struck me how - even though technological advancement changed the lives of public school teaching greatly during the course of my career - the clarinet instruction I gave my students in 2011 when I retired was virtually unchanged from the instruction they got in 1978 when I started! Same instrument..same fingerings...same embouchure, tone quality goals, articulation...on and on. A quarter note in Beethoven's time is still a quarter note today. Similar concepts can be applied to the workings of an orchestra using acoustic-only instruments. While some things change, some things remain pretty much the same.

Thanks for your thoughts...I enjoyed reading them. My favorite statement is your last one..no substitute for being able to hear! I might venture one step further and say that there is no substitute to hear tinnitus-free. And in terms of digital mixing and mastering, it is indeed a different world. One can only imagine the torment that Beethoven endured. At least it might have gone better for him if he didn't find composing so tedious!
 
I might differ with your statement that "you don't need too good of hearing to conduct an orchestra". I'm not sure what you base this on or exactly what you mean. ASSUMING that the musicians are of high enough caliber to stay together in tempo AND play in tune with each other (obviously Beethoven would have been incapable of knowing if either was the case), all should go fine. But one can be conducting, even being able to hear, and still have trouble keeping a group at the tempo you want. Plus not being able to hear results in your not being able to gauge and regulate the balance between the orchestra sections, and so being able to control dynamics goes out the window as well. Intonation is relegated to the musicians being able to "tune as you go" as the saying has it. For intricate rhythmic passages in the music, you would have to rely again on your musicians as possessing a very developed sense of being able to listen to each other and stay on the beat. So while Beethoven indeed had to be able to hear everything in his mind, his aural conception of what he heard and what the audience and musicians heard could well have been vastly different. Undoubtedly, as you say, his being able to see certainly must have helped, but there are still a heap of variables that are not within your control if you can't actually hear what is going on. I'm not sure what you mean either when you say "that era depended on the composer being able to communicate the music accurately in classical sheet music, so that it could be followed". How is it different now? Present day symphonies still rely on written music notation and the skill of the director to bring forth the intentions of the composer. It always strikes me how the development of digital music software and production, effects devices, equalization, and the attendant technology that goes along with all that is basically meaningless when it comes to what a band or symphony orchestra does. Presenting a concert of modern or older band and orchestral music remains basically unchanged over time in terms of how the musicians play the music and how it is rehearsed and conducted. I taught instrumental music for 34 years, and it always struck me how - even though technological advancement changed the lives of public school teaching greatly during the course of my career - the clarinet instruction I gave my students in 2011 when I retired was virtually unchanged from the instruction they got in 1978 when I started! Same instrument..same fingerings...same embouchure, tone quality goals, articulation...on and on. A quarter note in Beethoven's time is still a quarter note today. Similar concepts can be applied to the workings of an orchestra using acoustic-only instruments. While some things change, some things remain pretty much the same.

Thanks for your thoughts...I enjoyed reading them. My favorite statement is your last one..no substitute for being able to hear! I might venture one step further and say that there is no substitute to hear tinnitus-free. And in terms of digital mixing and mastering, it is indeed a different world. One can only imagine the torment that Beethoven endured. At least it might have gone better for him if he didn't find composing so difficult!
Yeah sheet music composition is still much the same. I was thinking more of the difference between the variables present in classical sheet music, compared to electronic composition using modular synthesis for example. It would be hard to imagine programming a synthesizer patch while deaf.

I just realized. If this article is true. Beethoven's drinking (wine with lead in it) is what lead to his deafness, but he likely drank more as his hearing degraded, and so in turn speed up the decline of his hearing without even knowing it. Pretty sad.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23686526
 
To be honest, I never did much research into Beethoven's deafness. I know the story about how he sawed off the legs of his piano so that he could put the body of it on the floor so as to feel the vibrations of it. Whether or not this is true I'm not sure...think so. And, yeah, you're absolutely right about the difference between any traditional sheet music and modular synthesis. That is pretty wild about Beethoven and the wine (with lead). It has hard to fathom the level of genius that he had along with so many other baroque, classical, and romantic composers, as well as 20th century too. Mozart certainly stands out among the group. To him composition was simply "liked taking dictation" as is stated in the movie "Amadeus". The pieces were already composed in his head and fully fleshed out instrumentally. Amazing.
 

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