Lenire — Bimodal Stimulation Treatment by Neuromod

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by Tinnitus Talk, Apr 20, 2019.

    1. RJames

      RJames Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      5 weeks into treatment. My tinnitus is on the way down, no doubt about it. I will write a full update whenever on my next appointment (3 weeks time - although who knows).
       
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    2. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      Don't wanna jinx it, so knocking on wood, but 2 days ago my tinnitus has reset to the pre-Lenire baseline. All of it. My 1990 noises that were quietened by Lenire went back to their original volume; the 2016 noise that was spiked has quietened back.

      Too early to declare victory but this is very, very hopeful, this hasn't happened at all for the 17 weeks while I was using Lenire. I've abstained for 2 weeks and now it did. Which is also exactly the timeframe Neuromod forecast. Sure doesn't seem to be a coincidence.

      I'll give it 1-2 more weeks and if it holds, I'll start again with the first timing which worked very well and avoid the cursed second timing for all eternity.
       
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    3. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      You're on the same trajectory I was - first timing's working for you around the 5-6 week mark.

      DON'T LET THEM CHANGE YOUR TIMING. The second timing has screwed everyone whose experiences I've read. The Bat AIDS is a great excuse not to make the trip back to Ireland. Stay on the first timing.
       
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    4. Ivkopivko
      Speechless

      Ivkopivko Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      don't know, probably motorsport + headphones for last years
      Time for them to reconsider remote video-call assessments (Skype, Microsoft Teams, Facebook video call, or any other from thousands of existing and working communication tools) and remote reprogramming option for device. At the end of the day, It's just electronical device with memory and interface, common business in IT industry for decades.

      The only problematic thing would be MML measuring, but I don't see any other reason to measure it than for their internal records. The most important for customers is the perceived loudness of tinnitus that could not be measured.

      Or they could review and use collected data since commercialization and invent more effective programs/timings (I bet that someone from Neuromod is reading this thread so forgive me if you've been doing this for some time :whistle:)
       
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    5. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      And it has a MicroUSB interface. Doesn't get any more standard than that. They could simply ask their users to plug the thing into their computers and access them remotely through the machine. And if they have security concerns... those aren't valid, either. Ensuring that only the manufacturer can reprogram a remote device is a very well solved problem in the days of IoT.

      I also hope that the virus will finally override what the hell ever is causing them to drag their legs on this and force them to implement it.
       
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    6. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Makes sense but they won't to do it. I bet my LS600 on it...

      Pozdravujem do Zvolena!
       
    7. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      They haven't been able to place Lenire's manual on their page in the last 6 months. Wonder why they keep the link. Expecting from them a bit of flexibility is a dream that never comes true.

      Funny, my company was able to have almost all 300 employees to work from home within one week. Not without problems, but they are working hard to fix them.
       
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    8. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      I think it should be possible to do things in remote, especially given the COVID-19 crisis. This virus crisis could last months and months, and this would virtually stop most clients from accessing and purchasing the device if the lockdowns are confirmed or get worse.
       
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    9. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      And this symmetrical longevity (or lack thereof) is to be expected. Neuromod's statements that improvements would be permanent and disimprovement temporary never made sense. Anyway, I'm glad at least your worsening wore off and I hope that's a good sign for others who have been saying their lives have been ruined by Lenire making things worse.
       
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    10. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Anyone here considered selling their device given that it has basic timing settings and no hearing curve compensation?

      I got the term with Neuromod but don't think I will be able to get there next 6-12 months due to Coronavirus. Will try to ask them to sell me the device but we all know what the answer is going to be.
       
    11. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      But their business model has been hit and turned 180 degrees by COVID. When there was free movement of people they had so many applications that they could afford to sell the device only in their Dublin clinic, as they would have enough people to fill all slots for months and then some. But with flights suspended, this will completely stop the sales, as almost no-one will fly to Dublin now. So either there is a remote assessment and configuration approach or they will stop selling devices for what, 6-12 months?
       
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    12. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      They never intended to only service patients through Dublin. If anything it will spur them on to rollout in other countries. Of course, getting those other offices up to speed would be a challenge...
       
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    13. Chinmoku

      Chinmoku Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, possibly medication
      Maybe they didn't, but it was taking a lifetime to have Lenire accessible anywhere else? As of now, almost one year after launch, the only place is Hannover and it is not operational yet. They still depend on people flying to Dublin.
       
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    14. EDDTEKK

      EDDTEKK Member

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      1999
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Infection
      I still don't understand how the electrical pulses shall calm the neurons...
       
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    15. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Nobody does :)
       
    16. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      Ask Susan Shore. She came up with it. Point being that the medical community acknowledges that the underlying approach has merit. Neuromod's application of said technology is another matter. Always remember that this is already their 2nd crack at it after MuteButton failed.

      Personally, while I do have curiosity, I don't have to understand everything about how something works to believe it works. I just need to see evidence of it working.
       
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    17. MadsWithT
      Studious

      MadsWithT Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/1997
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert. Worsening 07/2018 diving, 03/2020 Lenire
      Me neither. In my experience, the electric pulses rather excites the neurons.
       
    18. Tybs

      Tybs Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Fall from stairs
      How it works is mostly a mystery to me as well, but at this point it is proven that the pulses can indeed affect the neurons: which definitely gives science something to work with. Now the main question in application recides in figuring out what gives positive and what gives negative effects. At that point, we're much better off than just a few years ago.
       
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    19. F-u-T

      F-u-T Member

      Location:
      AZ USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trama
      Dr. Shore has published the answer to that question.

      I struggle to understand why Neuromod doesn’t have settings that match Dr. Shore's positive results.
       
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    20. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Care to shed some light on what the answer is?
       
    21. F-u-T

      F-u-T Member

      Location:
      AZ USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic Trama
      Shore's research showed:

      Auditory stimulation before nerve shock stimulation by 5-10 ms calmed fusiform cells in the DCN and reduced tinnitus.

      Nerve shock stimulation before auditory stimulation by 5-10 ms excited fusiform cells in the DCN and increased tinnitus.

      What we know about Lenire's 1st setting is that it is auditory and nerve shock stimulation concurrently. This lands right in the middle of Shore's settings for improvement or making things worse.
       
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    22. drox
      Pacman

      drox Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Brussels
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Sudden hearing loss + music + stress?
      Hello fellows!

      I have a feeling that everyone is now experiencing what it is like to live under a constant threat like we do with tinnitus :(!

      I have a question about Lenire: Does it work better for some kind of tinnitus? I have a new whistling kind of morse code sound in one ear above my usual hissing... Sounds it's more in the ear than brain so I was wondering...

      Thanks and stay safe!
       
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    23. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      On top of that they use Bluetooth to send audio into the earphones. Utter nonsense? I'd say yes. Besides problems with timing, there is a sound compression. It's also more expensive to manufacture and has lower reliability comparing to just plain cable.

      I'd like to know the reason why they have gone this way. It just doesn't make any sense. It will be similar to the door handle story in Tesla S. Elon wanted them not visible so now there is no way to get people out of the car from the outside in case of an accident. (Sorry, I'm just speculating...)
       
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    24. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Is there any picture how those signals go? If they just follow one after another then there is nothing like before or after. I wonder if there is any space between each stimulation set: (audio->electric shock->space->and again...) or if audio and electric shock overlap...

      Also Lenire sends signals to a different nerve. Might that influence the timing?
       
    25. MadsWithT
      Studious

      MadsWithT Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Norway
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/1997
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud concert. Worsening 07/2018 diving, 03/2020 Lenire
      @UHPTS
      I think you make a good point regarding Lenire using Bluetooth. If you have a margin of a few milliseconds, latency must be finely calculated.
       
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    26. Rb86

      Rb86 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      5/31/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      Could be a bit far fetched but I do feel like when I take a hot bath, my tinnitus usually calms down some. I wonder if the sound of the water and the feel of hot water somehow have a similar effect.
       
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    27. UHPTS

      UHPTS Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      October 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Dr. Ross O'Neill said that they do. I don't know what is the latency and if it can be variable but I suppose it is as the data is most certainly buffered before being encoded to sound.

      Why all this bother? What is wrong with a simple cable?
       
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    28. john paul
      English

      john paul Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/11/17
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      It is my opinion that this tech is incredibly simple and the Bluetooth is to make it appear state of the art in nature. They will probably admit themselves that this is a try it and see approach. Hit and hope which is why I've avoided it, tinnitus is not something to play around with IMO. That being said those who have found permanent improvement I'm happy for you.
       
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    29. pinklights98
      No Mood

      pinklights98 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Noise Exposure
      Does anyone else who have Lenire feel like the tongue stimulation comes before the auditory one during the beginning of the session?
       
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    30. hans799
      Mellow

      hans799 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Hungary
      Tinnitus Since:
      Born with it
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Worsened Dec 2016 by headphones
      Happy to report that this has held - it's been a week and I'm still back on pre-Lenire baseline.

      Quick overview of case history: 6 weeks of Timing 1 helped; 6 weeks of Timing 2 caused a spike; 5 weeks of Timing 1 didn't help the spike; after 2 weeks of stopping treatment, the spike stopped and went back to the pre-Lenire baseline; this has now held for 1 week.

      Neuromod gave me a call today, they'll get back to me on next steps.
       
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