Lidocaine and Dexamethasone Perfusion
- Thread starter MEWISEMAGIC
- Start date
Yes, I also heard that, but I am the unlucky one whose respond is negative. The ENT here in my hometown is my father's good friend, so if he thinks it is worthy trying, at least it is not a scam
My point is, the RWM verify is not that necessary, because Sakata did it only by needle, in Sakata's 80s, there seems to be no advanced equipment as you described in Shea(I read the original Japanese article a lot of times). But seems Sakata got very good result, so it is not the RWM issue, also you said the number of failure rate up to "90%" come from no where, at least Sakata will deny that too
Some people react negatively at first and then gradually improved afterwards. I read somewhere there's a French guy who receive AM-101 injection and experienced high spike at first and then it gradually improved till the T became a very faint sound. How lucky!
I think if the intratympanic injection changes your T it might be a good sign that it is still responsive.
So positively thinking AM-101 has higher chance to affect your T
Yes, I am always responding, in 2012, I did the same process with Dexamethasone, it is also high spike and then back to the baseline. This time is the same, with lidocaine, spike at first and then back to the baseline. So it is obvious that the problem is at the cochlear, but the problem is complicated, I don't knowSome people react negatively at first and then gradually improved afterwards. I read somewhere there's a French guy who receive AM-101 injection and experienced high spike at first and then it gradually improved till the T became a very faint sound. How lucky!
I think if the intratympanic injection changes your T it might be a good sign that it is still responsive.
So positively thinking AM-101 has higher chance to affect your T
Member- Jul 21, 2013
- 842
- Tinnitus Since
- 01/2013
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Acoustic trauma from headphones
http://www.reddit.com/r/tinnitus/comments/1wvhl6/had_t_for_8_months_now_its_gone/
Apparently quitting Dexamethasone stopped it for this guy. Very interesting.
Apparently quitting Dexamethasone stopped it for this guy. Very interesting.
The bottom line is lidocaine perfusion a viable and safe treatment for tinnitus ?Well if anyone should know it would be the Shea clinic. As previous stated here that Shea had done over 10,000 of these treatments so where are the statistics in regard to success or failure. Surely Shea does follow ups on its patients in regard to the treatment and even a modest 20 percent success rate would in my opinion be something to brag about.
Show me the beef, show me the statistics.
I welcome anyone who can find and post the success rate for this procedure showing just so much as a reduction in tinnitus volume level that lasted a year or longer.
There are numerous studies, articles and published works on this topic. Each with data on effectiveness. You can google the topic and instantly find studies on this procedure.
The data is mixed. Results are not always consistent because of various etiology in causation and how the procedures are performed. Mixed data is not an indication of effectiveness, or lack of effectiveness.
The data suggest that a number of people who undergo this procedure will respond favorably. The real question is what is the percentage of ears that will respond favorably.....and this is where the data is inconsistent.
As for the safety of the procedure? There is no indication the procedure is anything but safe. It is as safe as any minor invasive surgical procedure. There is always risk, but it's quite low.
The actual procedure is quiet well tolerated. I was surprised at how much of a "non event" it was.
I did the procedure and during the IV part of the procedure I did emails and work on my iPad and once the IV bag was empty I was unhooked and sent to my room. There were no adverse side effects.
I had my ear checked at 30 days and the 2 laser incisions had healed and the ENT said he could not tell there had been 2 holes in the ear drum. I never had any pain or feeling in my ear of discomfort.
As for effectiveness, by day 3 of the procedure the ringing was almost completely gone. I noticed on the walk back to my room with my wife.
My ringing was a hiss and high frequency. The procedure altered the volume and sound quite dramatically. Several others in my group have responded positively as well.
There was an older gentleman (80s) who had menaries and balance issues along with tinnitus for 30 years and he told us the procedure seemed to have cured both his menaries and tinnitus. In fact, this procedure is the defacto standard treatment for menaries weather at Shea or other clinics.
The procedure is well documented and stands as the ONLY surgical intervention for the reduction or amelioration of tinnitus, period. Every other treatment modality is a scam, placebo or only assists in habituation.
There are 2-3 medical device company's that are developing small micro pumps that will deliver medications to the RWM over a 30 day period to saturate the cochlea. This is a long term perfusion treatment protocol that is basically the same as the Shea procedure but applied over a longer period to raise effectiveness.
Silverstein patented the micro wick that is inserted through the ear drum and placed against the RWM and patients apply a mixture of lidocaine and dexamethasone over a 3-5 week period 3 times per day as an extended treatment protocol.
I was originally referred to Shea by Dr. David Barrs at the Mayo Clinic.
The data is mixed. Results are not always consistent because of various etiology in causation and how the procedures are performed. Mixed data is not an indication of effectiveness, or lack of effectiveness.
The data suggest that a number of people who undergo this procedure will respond favorably. The real question is what is the percentage of ears that will respond favorably.....and this is where the data is inconsistent.
As for the safety of the procedure? There is no indication the procedure is anything but safe. It is as safe as any minor invasive surgical procedure. There is always risk, but it's quite low.
The actual procedure is quiet well tolerated. I was surprised at how much of a "non event" it was.
I did the procedure and during the IV part of the procedure I did emails and work on my iPad and once the IV bag was empty I was unhooked and sent to my room. There were no adverse side effects.
I had my ear checked at 30 days and the 2 laser incisions had healed and the ENT said he could not tell there had been 2 holes in the ear drum. I never had any pain or feeling in my ear of discomfort.
As for effectiveness, by day 3 of the procedure the ringing was almost completely gone. I noticed on the walk back to my room with my wife.
My ringing was a hiss and high frequency. The procedure altered the volume and sound quite dramatically. Several others in my group have responded positively as well.
There was an older gentleman (80s) who had menaries and balance issues along with tinnitus for 30 years and he told us the procedure seemed to have cured both his menaries and tinnitus. In fact, this procedure is the defacto standard treatment for menaries weather at Shea or other clinics.
The procedure is well documented and stands as the ONLY surgical intervention for the reduction or amelioration of tinnitus, period. Every other treatment modality is a scam, placebo or only assists in habituation.
There are 2-3 medical device company's that are developing small micro pumps that will deliver medications to the RWM over a 30 day period to saturate the cochlea. This is a long term perfusion treatment protocol that is basically the same as the Shea procedure but applied over a longer period to raise effectiveness.
Silverstein patented the micro wick that is inserted through the ear drum and placed against the RWM and patients apply a mixture of lidocaine and dexamethasone over a 3-5 week period 3 times per day as an extended treatment protocol.
I was originally referred to Shea by Dr. David Barrs at the Mayo Clinic.
I think it's the sinus surgery that stop his T, not quitting the Dexamethasone nasal spray.
Don't be too extreme, everybody here is nice and smart people, we will not do this just because of one post. I also did lots of research and indeed it is a very old and classical method for tinnitus and other inner ear disorder. The success rate reported is quite different, like Sakata's report, it is very high. But even in Japan it is not a standard method until today, I posted in a Japanese tinnitus forum, and only a few people tried this, but didn't get long term effect. If it is a very effective way, it should be a standard method in Japanese hospital when treat tinnitus, but it is not, after 30 years. So it's worthy a try, but not a magic.
"Every other treatment modality is a scam", this is definitely wrong. Here in China, we got 100 million T patients, large market right? Chinese medicine and acupuncture cured thousands patients here, especially the T without hearing loss, mainly caused by stress and other unknown reasons. I treated my T for a year, and know at leat 10 persons who got cured totally or partially. Maybe you will say they are all scams, or placebo, but I don't think so, because one of the patient got into the hospital the same day with me, and after 30 times acupuncture, his T totally disappered. He graduated in my university, he could tell every detail of my campus, if you think he is a scam, then I have nothing could convince you.
So all in all, it is a classical way, worthy trying. Don't be too extreme, the world is huge.
Hello all,
I have been giving some thought to trying this. I would like some relief (wouldn't we all?) but I don't want to risk making it any worse than it is. I know nothing is 100% in the medical field... but I just kind of want to get some opinions either way. Thanks
I have been giving some thought to trying this. I would like some relief (wouldn't we all?) but I don't want to risk making it any worse than it is. I know nothing is 100% in the medical field... but I just kind of want to get some opinions either way. Thanks
MeWiseMagic,
Since the effectiveness of this treatment is somewhat hit or miss (or at least that's my sense of things after reading much of what is posted here), I was wondering if you might post some info about yourself for those of us who might consider the treatment. My idea is if the circumstances surrounding your T are similar to mine, then I would feel more confident in my expectation of positive results. Could you tell us your age, the cause of your T (noise exposure, drugs, anxiety, aging, whatever), the degree of hearing loss you have (none, mild, severe, wear hearing aids), how severe your T was (some comparitive measure of volume and effect on you - eg., made you anxious/depressed, functioned well with T before procedure ...), T frequency/hearing loss frequencies, how long you had T before the treatment, general physical condition, other/related health issues, and anything else about yourself that you think might have had bearing on the effectiveness of the procedure for you?
I'm glad to hear that a Mayo doctor referred you to Shea. Interestingly, when I was at the Mayo Clinic a couple of weeks ago, the ENT I saw was like all the others - "there's nothing you can do about it except get used to it". Just curious, how strong was the Mayo doctors referral? Did he say something like "the Shea procedure has a good chance of success", or did he say "you might try it"? Just curious to get a read on what this Mayo doctor's real opinion of the precedure. I have to wonder why every ENT faced with a tinnitus patient does not mention Shea's treatment as a possibility rather than the standard "nothing you can do". The fact that they don't certainly makes me hesitate to jump on the treatment. If its very safe, and somewhat successful, why have not all of us heard about the treatment from our doctors? (I'm not doubting anything you have said. I'm only wondering why a fairly successful and safe treatment such as this is not recommended more often. Maybe the explanation is that the typical ENT just does not keep up with tinnitus treatment options. If that is the case, it is rather scary. I think all of us think we should be getting up-to-date knowledge from our doctors - if the Shea treatment is not being recommended just because ENTs are not aware of it, that is a terrible indictment of the collective veracity of doctors' knowledge).
mick
Hi, I was referred to the Shea clinic and completed the first visit for testing and md I saw suggested the perfusion to treat my tinnitus. This was 3 weeks ago. My hearing loss is at the 8 to 10k range so the ringing is my ears is stereophonic in both ears .
How long ago was your perfusion and how many rounds of injections did you have. How is you tinnitus now?
How long ago was your perfusion and how many rounds of injections did you have. How is you tinnitus now?
KingRoanoke
Member
- May 2, 2014
- 48
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- Look at what the dog is wearing.
This is fascinating. I wonder what makes Lidocaine alter tinnitus and if the qualifying factor can be captured. Really interesting stuff.
Here is my experience with Lidocaine;
I went to the dentist to have my tooth filled. The Dentist injected Lidocaine or Xlocaine to the upper left side of the roof of my mouth, in order to anaesthetize. I do not remember exactly what it was. The T stopped after 20 minutes. (T2 level(Weak white noise) lasted for 5 hours). Lidocaine is really effective in this regard, but it is also doubtful whether it will have the same effect in long-term use; in addition, the thought of getting Lidocaine injected around your ear every 5-6 hours seems creepy and unhealthy. Still, for people who cannot fall below the level of T6(very high volume) it can be a method which can be tried under the supervision of a doctor.
I went to the dentist to have my tooth filled. The Dentist injected Lidocaine or Xlocaine to the upper left side of the roof of my mouth, in order to anaesthetize. I do not remember exactly what it was. The T stopped after 20 minutes. (T2 level(Weak white noise) lasted for 5 hours). Lidocaine is really effective in this regard, but it is also doubtful whether it will have the same effect in long-term use; in addition, the thought of getting Lidocaine injected around your ear every 5-6 hours seems creepy and unhealthy. Still, for people who cannot fall below the level of T6(very high volume) it can be a method which can be tried under the supervision of a doctor.
This is odd. I was seen by Mayo clinic's ENT dep't within the first 3 months of onset. I was only seen by a resident. Tinnitus alone, absent other, more serious issues (I also had fairly intense ear pain at the time) does NOT warrant an internal, up-referral to one of the permanent staff ENT doctors there -- period. This is what I was told... Again, I had very bothersome ear pain at the time and was still not referred up the hierarchy chain. I was reluctantly referred to imaging for an MRI (which I did not even particularly want, especially after I was told there was only a 0.001% chance my tinnitus was caused by a tumor).
I find it curious you were able to get by the resident staff gatekeepers and were seen by a non-resident ENT doctor (slow day?) and I find it very odd anyone there would refer you to the Shea clinic in Memphis. I was desperate for ANY type of treatment for my tinnitus, and was told unequivocally there was no worthwhile treatment modalities available anywhere for tinnitus minus the course of Valtrex/ prednisone I had already received from an ENT doctor in my home state. Even this treatment was frowned upon as a shot in the dark as almost universally ineffective by the resident who examined me.
How did you get to see a permanent staff ENT doctor (non-resident) at Mayo? Did you have more serious ENT issues alongside your tinnitus? Did you already know about the Shea clinic and ask for a referral, or did the doctor who examined you recommend the clinic cold?
- May 16, 2015
- 40
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/23/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud music and alarms at formerjob
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,692
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
I was to Shea in 2011 I believe, and had the perfusions through my left eardrum. For ear conditions other than tinnitus it's probably okay to see them, but everyone would be going there for tinnitus relief if it really worked. I personally think they're trying to get your insurance money is all. They took in over $7000 for my procedure from what I remember. They use a laser to make a hole in your eardrum, which works well, but remember there is a small scar left from it according to my primary care Dr.
- May 16, 2015
- 40
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/23/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud music and alarms at formerjob
@just1morething,
Since my T is fairly early onset and I've had some relief with injections of Dex , once a week for three weeks, I want to try it. I've had an online conversation with MWM who answered all of my questions.
Before the DEX shots I was having brain zaps, sounds of soldiers marching, and loud ringing and now I just have a fairly low sizzling sound with a loud echo. I hope I don't live to regret this, but I have done my homework and want to go through the procedure especially because I've been a line dancer for years and the sound interferes with my enjoyment. I don't have insurance right now and they quoted me a cash price of about $5000
Since my T is fairly early onset and I've had some relief with injections of Dex , once a week for three weeks, I want to try it. I've had an online conversation with MWM who answered all of my questions.
Before the DEX shots I was having brain zaps, sounds of soldiers marching, and loud ringing and now I just have a fairly low sizzling sound with a loud echo. I hope I don't live to regret this, but I have done my homework and want to go through the procedure especially because I've been a line dancer for years and the sound interferes with my enjoyment. I don't have insurance right now and they quoted me a cash price of about $5000
- Jan 25, 2013
- 3,692
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008
- Cause of Tinnitus
- TMJ disorder, airplane barotrauma, noise exposure.
@Frances Lynn, You might want to give a call to Otonomy who is working on a long lasting version of Dexamethasone. They might at least give you their impression of Shea perfusions and maybe you could possibly participate in trials of their injections, if they are being conducted currently or in the near future. I would think OTO-311 would be much superior to anything Shea has to offer IMHO. Problem is when will it be available? Worthwhile calling them or sending a email I would think.
http://www.otonomy.com/
http://www.otonomy.com/
- May 16, 2015
- 40
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/23/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud music and alarms at formerjob
@just1morething, Thanks for that info; I will get in touch with them, it's very positive news for all of us. I don't think I'm going to abort my trip to Shea, though as I have a non-refundable plane ticket, some friends to visit in Memphis, and I have found that in all of the clinical trials you only have a 50% chance of receiving the real drug. But if the treatment I get at Shea doesn't work then I'll have Otonomy to explore as my next step.
I realize the money I'm spending there may be wasted but it only means that I will have no more vacations in the next couple of years.
I realize the money I'm spending there may be wasted but it only means that I will have no more vacations in the next couple of years.
What is expected from oto-311. Cure for t, relief, lower volume of T? What is the goal, this is first time that I read about it! tnx
You can read more in the threads about Otonomy:
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...-and-patent-rights-for-tinnitus-program.2387/
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/otonomy-starting-phase-1-trial-in-2015-for-tinnitus.9017/
1MW
Member
- Nov 25, 2014
- 614
- Tinnitus Since
- 2008 but cured and relapsed from benzos
- Cause of Tinnitus
- ssnhl/benzos/unknown
My T goes to 0 for 3 days with 3mg oral dexamethasone.
But the wide effects of systemic use of dexamethasone are very bad
if taken long time.
Works to me but the result is temporary..
But the wide effects of systemic use of dexamethasone are very bad
if taken long time.
Works to me but the result is temporary..
- May 16, 2015
- 40
- Tinnitus Since
- 04/23/2015
- Cause of Tinnitus
- loud music and alarms at formerjob
Well, I just returned from my perfusions treatment at Shea Ear Clinic. Frankly, I only got a small improvement thus far. The tone changed to a more tolerable one and the volume went done slightly. The paperwork I was given on discharge claims that the perfusion only begins the healing process and the real results can be seen a few weeks out. So, I will be back reporting in a few weeks. I will say they are a lot more professional then I was led to believe.
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