Onset of Tinnitus After Using Noise Cancelling Headphones

Insult you? No. I thought you were speaking in general terms. But yes, if you do suffer from tinnitus caused by noise or loud music and then choose to turn up volume in your headphones I still think it's not bright and even stupid. Like trying to extinguish a fire with gasoline.

(You used the word "you", so I did the same. It wasn't aimed at you in person. Exchange it for "one" if it makes it less insulting).

 

"There are two types of combination tones: sum tones whose frequencies are found by adding the frequencies of the real tones, and difference tones whose frequencies are the difference between the frequencies of the real tones"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination_tone

Yeah, these tones. I can definitely hear them. The QC20 from Bose is that kind of headseat that has both ANR, as well as sound input (in this case, from a 3.5mm stereo jack). I think it even has a microphone built in, so you can use it with a smartphone (if ... it has a 3.5mm jack).

When the audio in is given a 16000Hz signal, there is (apparently) nothing to be heard, or not clearly anyway. But when I play a tone of lower or higher than 16000Hz, then I hear what is at least similar to a difference tone. It's used in radiotelephony as well: An example is NDB transmitters on LF and MF (or whatever bands they are). If they don't have a modulated signal, but just a carrier wave, you can hear them with a BFO (Beat Frequency Oscillator). If you are tuning an NDB beacon at - say - 360 KHz, then a BFO option will add in for instance 2KHz above that (or below, depending on which brand). You can't send 360KHz straight to a speaker, but when you mix 360KHz and 362KHz (as in this example), you get a difference tone of 2KHz. THIS in turn, you can hear in a speaker. If the carrier wave of said beacon is cycled on and off, the BFO function will make that audible, so you can code in a morse identification.

THAT is what it sounds like, when I add 16050Hz to my Bose QC20, I get a tone out - which is NOT the difference, but something like the difference x3. But same principle as BFO.

Yes, I have Audacity. I didn't use it for any spectrum analysis, I didn't even look for it. I will see if I can record it simply by making a video, using the microphone in my iPhone.

 

Yes, just don't plug anything in to the 3.5mm minijack. I have done that a lot - just enjoying the silence.

But that's question: Do ANR really give "silence"? Or just perceived silence? Although it's meant to cancel out, there is still pressure there. Just try to sit in a train, and enter a tunnel - you will feel the eardrums "cycling".

But even more important: It seems there is some kind of high tone in the Bose QC20 (16000Hz). My JBL E-Series on-ear doesn't have that.

 

I was looking for a way to send a PM, but here is the link then, for a video:

Testing Bose QC20

You can hear the normally generated tone (mainly below 12-13 KHz). But watch what happens when I vary the frequency around 16KHz - you hear that interference tone. Difference tone. Or whatever tone it is.

YES, it is much lower, but it's there. And it tells me that there MIGHT be a (lower) 16KHz tone, constantly in your hears, when ANR (NC) is active. Or ... maybe it's only when you feed the 3.5mm minijack with near-16KHz tones, that the circuitry is "disturbed" and makes unwanted tones ...

EDIT: I just watched the video again. You might not be able to hear the interference tone, with my crude video where I am holding the headseat up to the iPhone microphone. But it's there.

If you do the same test, using these headphone and a Macbook with a 3.5mm minijack audio out - then you should be able to hear it clearly (QC20s in your ears, not being held loosely like this)

I admit that ANR/NC is a complicated and difficult exercise, and bravo for what has been accomplished. BUT, if it harms my ears, then I will prefer passive plugs or cups.

 

Yeah, I thought you meant that.
Lots of people here use headphones and listen to music on them even though they have tinnitus and no discussion will sway them.
I think it's risky but whatever, right?
Most are fine or there would be more posts about it. I know we were talking about trying to cancel out external noise with music on headphones and it makes no sense either when you have to protect your hearing especially considering you might have lower thresholds now.

 

I use headphones - though rarely - as well, and recently bought noise cancelling ones just to be able to listen to music or whatever without having to play it loud.

 

If we return to the subject of NC headphones. What is it you think cause tinnitus? Is it the "anti-sound" that you mean cause this, because besides that they don't differ from other headphones in any way, do they?

Also, if we can't hear the "anti-sound", how can it affect our tinntus?

(Side question: Can deaf people get tinnitus from sounds they can't hear?)

 

I am curious about this model. The Bose have been discussed a lot on this thread. There are some theories about why they seem to have caused tinnitus problems, including the 16 kHz frequency.

I wonder if the Sony WH-1000XM3 might make use of a noise cancelling mechanism that does not cause the same type of problems as the Bose? From what I can tell from various reviews, it is reputed to have better sound than the Bose and comparable noise cancelling, but it acts differently, has a different response to various types of noises than the Bose, and has different modes.

https://www.soundguys.com/sony-wh-1000x-m3-or-bose-qc35-ii-which-to-buy-22275/

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/bose-qc-35-ii-vs-sony-wh-1000x-m3,review-5909.html

https://www.cnet.com/reviews/sony-wh-1000xm3-review/

In any case I find it curious that there are so many comments about the Bose and none about the Sony and I wonder if perhaps it isn't causing the same issues... ? Thanks everyone for any thoughts.

 

@mark998 I thought the same when I read this thread. I've had mine for a little more than a week and I've used them for a total of maybe 2 hours at work, which is a lot more than I normally use headphones. Anyway, I hear my tinnitus much more clearly since they're very quiet and I haven't heard any hissing or noise from the headphones themselves. At least none that bothered me.

 

And have you noticed any increase or change in your tinnitus since you started using them? Not when you're actually using them, but afterwards.

 

No, I haven't. And I can't really see why that would happen unless I listen too loud.

 

There are some theories you can find in this thread as to why the Bose seems to be worsening, or even causing, the tinnitus. So if true I wonder if they may also apply to the Sony, or perhaps not, as they seem to operate somewhat differently and perhaps use somewhat different noise cancelling technology. But I really have no idea.

 

I've read it, but I can't understand how sounds you can't hear can damage your hearing. (I'm not saying it can't happen, just that I can't understand it).

 

NC headphones can actually amplify high frequency sounds so they could be the culprit along with the lawnmower.

 

They amplify high frequency sounds? Are you referring to the 16 kHz unheard tone that was mentioned earlier, or what exactly?

 

Got it the same way for over a month now, started a couple days after using pxc 550 headphones on normal volume.
I also never used noise cancelling before that and had a lot of experience with normal headphones, so I'm pretty sure that is the cause.

Trying to stay positive but its like I'm constantly getting punished… and when I read of people here that had it for years because of NC its very hard :s

Living healthier now and still hoping everyday it will go away.

 

@Lumi Not necessarily. Normal volume over time in headphones can still be the cause.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but I still don't understand how sounds we can't hear can cause tinnitus.

 

@Sven, the way I understand it, it has to do with the way vibrations are circulated through our inner ear. I realize that's a perhaps overly simplified description, but it's my best understanding.

 

How I understand it is my brain is now trying to fill in the gaps after getting used to noise cancelling doing it for me.
Also felt some pressure, and could still hear a faint white noise.

If it began because of volume it would start right after the exposure or the following day right ?
I stopped using it for a couple of days because they were uncomfortable and was going to return them, only then it started gradually.

 

I don't know for sure. As far as I know you can get it from short as long as prolonged exposure to noise.

 

What's that "way"? Is it special in any way? (no pun intended)

 

Well my tinnitus is severe, but I used noise canceling headsets on a 14 hour flight recently... and it wasn’t any severe-er-er. I was wearing partial earplugs just in case too and had the tinnitus mix going.

But it made it difficult to work and hear my coworkers.

 

Hey, so I'm in the same boat as a lot of people in this thread...

Has anyone managed to find relief after the ANC worsened their tinnitus? Did it go back to 'normal' after a while? How long did it take?

I only used ANC for a few hours and my tinnitus doubled in volume. Haven't used the headphones in 48 hours and the tinnitus is still just as loud. I'm so scared.

 

I use Sony WH1000XM3 and I have no increase in my tinnitus.

However, if you use them or any other NC headphones believing they are protection it's no surprise your tinnitus increases. They're headphones, not ear protection.

 

@Sven, sorry for the late reply! I never got a notification of your reply.

I have only ever used these headphones at low volume and in the comfort of my home when some ambient noises (i.e. PC fan, someone talking) bothered me. Never as protection.

The audiologist seemed fairly confident that in fact, the headphones gave me somatic tinnitus because they were clenched too tightly on my head and jaw (I have a TMJ disorder, it would seem).

In any case, I don't plan to use these headphones anytime soon!

 

Audiologist is right, but tight headphones with neck/jaw somatic tinnitus is more of a concern when bending head down as this pulls on the jaw and c spine - hard surfaces.

A person can have all sorts of jaw and neck problems and not get somatic tinnitus. It usually takes some type of force movement. Clenching teeth. Whiplash. Or even lifting head off a dental head rest and holding with mouth wide open. Neck muscle spasms can develop quickly from this causing the c spine to straighten where then the jaw is pulled out of alignment.

 

@Greg Sacramento, you're right. Actually I started physiotherapy a few days ago, and the physiotherapist was almost more concerned about the state of my C spine than my jaw. My neck has been rather stiff lately so... it could be that.

i also have occipital neuralgia (never had an accident though — doctors said it was most likely because of bad postures)... and am taking Pregabalin to deal with the nerve pain so... yeah, I definitely have a few neck and jaw issues going on, which is why big headphones are a big no-no for me right now!

I just really hope physical therapy helps because that new tinnitus really, really sucks compared to what I was used to.

 

@Syb -- Are you aware that Pregabalin causes tinnitus for many people? You may want to check out 10 different threads on this forum with Pregabalin in the title. -- Best...

 

@Lane yes, I heard a bit about that... but I've had tinnitus since way before I started taking Pregabalin, and it didn't make my tinnitus worse either in the four years I've been taking it, it seems. I've been on the same dosage since the first month... and I (still) need it to be functional — it's the only thing that's made the pain manageable so far. :/

I'll definitely keep it in mind if I ever have an unexplained spike, though. Thanks for your concern, I appreciate it!

 

Just to update everyone since I last posted here; I still have T and it hasn't gotten any better or worse over the last few years. My new theory is that when you get noise cancelling headphones you start to actively listen for "silence" to see how well they work. And if you have mild T then you will start to notice the ringing. Once noticed you are now sensitised and it's difficult to get back to silence without ringing.

I've had my ears tested and I have notched loss at around 6khz in both ears and that's the same frequency of my T. So I think my brain making up for the missing frequency, and that is causing my ringing. I did try "tuned" hearing aids for a while but they didn't help.

So I've learned not to get upset about T and just live with it although that can be frustrating at times...

Wishing the best for everyone with T