Returning Hope — Stem Cell Treatment in Asia

No @Twitch, you've misunderstood @DebInAustralia's words.

Just because she mentioned the words 'stem cells' and 'improved' in the same post, she does not imply a link.

You, like me, have completely misread her post as she's made it very clear that she's not suggesting a link between stem cells and tinnitus improvement. She just really happened to mention the latter in her post.

I'm pleased Deb has found relief for some fairly serious health issues, but as far as tinnitus goes, I think it's safer we believe that there's something magical in that fabulous Geelong water supply.

 

Thank you.

But I haven't stated that my tinnitus improved because of the stems.

My autoimmunity/pain improved dramatically, but I am not convinced that the tinnitus is better because of the stems.

My tinnitus was very intrusive, with reactive tinnitus and hyperacusis, along with unpleasant spikes.

I still have my hissing noise that I hear centrally and peripherally, but I have noticed that my noise has backed off significantly to the point that I either don't notice/hear it, or it doesn't bother me as much when I do hear it (habituation/ giving up?)

My tinnitus isn't as reactive and my sound tolerance has improved.

Spikes don't seem to be as intense or prolonged.

I received my stems at Macquarie stem cell clinic in New South Wales, Australia.

I was required to undergo a mini liposuction procedure in order to harvest the stems, which was very painful as it was done using a local anaesthetic with adrenaline (which incidentally contributed to the joys of an isolated rapid atrial fibrillation episode 2 days later) and nitrous gas. I was offered fentanyl, but declined.

It cost me $12,000 AUD; which included storage of stems to be used at a later stage if I want.

The stems were given via facet joint injections and intravenously.

Post op pain was manageable, but wasn't pleasant.

It's difficult to say if my results were similar to other people because I don't know anyone else from this community who responded to adipose derived svf stem cells (uncultured).

I did speak to 2 others (MCQ put me in touch with prior patients) who both had intra-articular injections with unexpected, and incidental improvements in their tinnitus following the stems. One of these patients suffered with chronic tinnitus and severe hyperacusis; both of which have resolved according to the clinic at his 1 year followup.

Hope this helps.

 

I just don't want to give people false hopes. It could be the stems, but can't say for sure.

If I experience any further dramatic improvements, I will let you know.

 

Will your stems be cultured?

 

That's fair enough @DebInAustralia! You've had tinnitus for quite a while now, so I can understand you saying that it could well be simply the passage of time, that has led to your tinnitus intensity easing off a little.

But it's so tantalising to imagine that your ears feeling better, could even in some small way be attributable to the treatment you had. Particularly as you sensed improvement post therapy. But who knows?

Why did you knock back the fentanyl? It's supposedly a beautiful thing....at least once.

 

@Fabrikat yes I'm well aware that the improvement wasn't directly attributed to the treatment but in retrospect having had intrusive tinnitus which has not improved on its own in years, it would be naive to dismiss the link imo.

In other news, the clinic in Thailand now offer intranasal stem cell delivery which is reported to better penetrate the bbb.

 

Do you know the name of the clinic and how much they charge for their service? Are you contemplating going there?

 

I know of two at TinnitusTalk who have tried adipose stem cells (harvested from your own body). The first had no improvement at all; the second one had, but suspected it could be because of laser therapy instead.

(From my memory, so details might be wrong.)

If you've met them face to face and talked to them, that counts as verified cases in my book, as I'm no academic researcher or investigave journalist.

I think it has. You've presented us with the two first cases I know of where adipose stem cells appear to have helped, a treatment which isn't all that expensive.

At the end of the day, we won't be able to invent any cure of our own or develop any existing one. The information we can apply is:

1. What stem cell treatment did person X undergo?

2. Where did he/she undergo it? As there may be differences between clinics, this is an extremely importent piece of info. If someone went to a certain team of medical professionals and responded well, we can assume they carry out the treatment correctly. So those who want to test will know where to turn to get a fair chance.

As a collective of laymen, our knowledge is slowly building up. We may not be able to offer guarantees or absolute insight, but we can offer experience, and that is helpful for those who wish to try their luck.

 

It's the clinic where ATEOS had his treatment at in Thailand (Stem Cells 21). Although my tinnitus is intrusive and I am desperate for reprieve. I contemplated treatment in Thailand but in the end decided against it and other clinics in less developed countries that mostly operate with impunity.

There is a reason why we don't have a slew of "desperate, health tourism stem cell clinics" here in the UK/US & Australia for untreatable conditions such as autism, tinnitus etc. It's because developed countries have tighter regulations and there is accountability. I was also concerned by the $15k USD quoted for adipose cell treatment, going up to $30k USD for other stem cells which I thought was somewhat inflated for an unregulated/unproven treatment in a less developed country where the cost of living and items is approximately half of what they are in the west. That and the niggling question in the back of my mind, what would actually be injected back in me (real cells or [input bogus solution] here)

Deb paid 12k AUD for adipose treatment in Australia but would have paid ~19k AUD (15k USD) for adipose stem cell treatment in Thailand and this is excluding flights. Obviously this is just a generalisation and not a comparison of the treatments themselves.

 

I am very sceptical of stem cell clinics in places like Thailand @Twitch. Not that they don't have availability of good modern health care there, but that they are quite an unregulated market, that allow dubious overpriced clinics to operate, promising cures for things like tinnitus, with very little evidence of efficacy. Susceptible people blow a lot of cash on not much at all!

 

Yes, but you also have heard several anecdotal stories about how it worked for some people and I would not be too quick to dismiss those stories. So I guess everyone has to make the decision for themselves to see if it is worth it to invest the time and money into it with something potentially/potentially not working.