The Difference Is Night and Day

[lucluc]

So I haven't posted or visited this forum for several months as part of an attempt to simply 'not think' about tinnitus. Whilst I can say I have thought about tinnitus at least momentarily every day, and i'm not here to post a miraculous recovery story whereby one day I woke up and heard complete silence, I do have some good news to share.

My T started out of the blue in October of last year and for the first few months it was hell, I couldn't stop thinking about it and at times thought my life was genuinely over. However, in the time since then, my mindset has changed completely. I don't know if it is because I am paying less attention to my T or if there has been a genuine improvement for some reason, but the sounds I hear are almost always indistinguishable from the environment until I pay close attention to them. Before it was a constant ringing that I found impossible to ignore.

I have had some problems with regards to encountering new sounds that can become intrusive, but thankfully they appear to be temporary so far. When I do experience these sounds, or when I find myself in a loud environment, I do panic and it can be difficult to deal with at the time, but eventually I can go back to baseline which is pretty much the same as how I felt before having T. Another thing I struggle with is when I hear sounds in the environment that sound like they could be new T sounds, but I usually just get myself out of that environment and allow myself to realise that they aren't.

My biggest problems at the moment are the underlying worry that I am going to suddenly make my T noticeable again and feeling isolated from social activities (not going to loud clubs, festivals etc.). However, I reassure myself of the first worry by carrying ear plugs at all times and have countered the second problem by still making the effort to go out but still be sensible. I have been to the cinema, to bars and clubs and even to a concert, since getting T, none of these things thus far have made my T worse (in fact it seems to have got better), but in all cases I have worn ear plugs (they really aren't a big deal).

So to conclude what has become a bit of a rambly post, I just want to say thank you to this forum for the support when I was struggling with my T over the first few months, I felt it was necessary to inform anyone who may be in the position I was that it really does get easier to deal with 99% of the time. I know a lot of people use this forum when they are struggling and then when they feel better never return, which paints a false picture of how bleak our future is. So for anyone newly dealing with T, I really do think in a few months you will feel radically different, and my advise is to try live life as normally as possible and eventually you will feel normal again (fake it till you make it!!), take reasonable precautions, but most importantly BE OPTIMISTIC!

Oh and one last thing, my dad has suffered extreme tinnitus for 3 years and over the past few weeks has also noticed a significant improvement (he's trying to get to the bottom of what caused it, will update if we discover the cause). So whether you've been a T sufferer for months or years, there's still hope!!

 

[Bill Bauer]

underlying worry that I am going to suddenly make my T noticeable again

I guess you are not THAT worried, if you are ok with taking the risks below. If your T comes back as a result of your actions, telling yourself that "going to that club and concert a couple of times was Totally worth a lifetime of T" will be all it takes to cheer you up. Good for you!

I have been to the cinema, to bars and clubs and even to a concert, since getting T

 

[Bill Bauer]

but in all cases I have worn ear plugs (they really aren't a big deal).

Earplugs provide a false sense of security. If you like, I can provide you with countless links to people sharing on this forum how they learned the hard way that you can't count on earplugs.

Oh and one last thing, my dad has suffered extreme tinnitus for 3 years and over the past few weeks has also noticed a significant improvement (he's trying to get to the bottom of what caused it, will update if we discover the cause). So whether you've been a T sufferer for months or years, there's still hope!!

Thank you for sharing this.

 

[lucluc]

I guess you are not THAT worried, if you are ok with taking the risks below. If your T comes back as a result of your actions, telling yourself that "going to that club and concert a couple of times was Totally worth a lifetime of T" will be all it takes to cheer you up. Good for you!

Actually I have been severely worried, but I'm sensible enough to realise that seen as I am young and have no hearing loss, the cause of my T is unlikely to be hearing damage and therefore being in reasonably loud environments with 30db hearing protection isn't likely to be the end of the world. In fact, I genuinely think going into those environments and reassuring myself that my T isn't something that is ruining my life has been a huge factor in why my T is often barely noticeable. Reducing my fear of T has certainly helped.

I understand you may be having a different experience of T and will completely isolate yourself from these environments and that's your choice, all I'm trying to say is that SOME people are able to go into these environments and be fine. If one day my T does come back I will take everything I've just said back, but even my dad with severe T has gone to countless loud environments without any protection at all and never experienced a spike over the years he's had it. All i'm saying is that there is some variation.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I am young and have no hearing loss, the cause of my T is unlikely to be hearing damage and therefore being in reasonably loud environments with 30db hearing protection isn't likely to be the end of the world.

The cause of your T is likely to be an acoustic trauma. If your hearing test hasn't revealed any hearing loss, keep in mind that those tests don't cover hidden hearing loss.

The countless experiences being reported on this forum regarding people getting (sometimes permanent) spikes after being exposed to noise that is clearly not loud enough to cause any hearing damage in a healthy person seem to imply that now that our ears have been compromised, it takes less to do (possibly permanent) damage to us than those dB levels that are said to hurt ears of healthy people.

I genuinely think going into those environments and reassuring myself that my T isn't something that is ruining my life has been a huge factor in why my T is often barely noticeable. Reducing my fear of T has certainly helped.

If it doesn't work out for you (or if it does work out), please share it with us, so that others could learn from your experiences.

you may be having a different experience of T

The above is not really true. I am simply willing to learn from the mistakes made by others.

SOME people are able to go into these environments and be fine

Oh, Of Course most of the time one doesn't get instant feedback. The same is true for most people who got their T as a result of noise. A good analogy is that if you begin hitting a wall with a hammer, it takes a while before you get to see the light on the other side of the wall. In this analogy that light on the other side of the wall is T, and the wall is your ear that is now weaker compared to that of other people.

even my dad with severe T has gone to countless loud environments without any protection at all and never experienced a spike over the years he's had it

It is possible that his T would have faded had he not done the above. It is also possible that it wouldn't have faded.

All i'm saying is that there is some variation.

No doubt about that.

 

[Calipol2009]

telling yourself that "going to that club and concert a couple of times was Totally worth a lifetime of T" will be all it takes to cheer you up. Good for you!

That type of passive aggressive comment does not belong on a support page. It serves nothing other than to instill fear and panic into someone.

Earplugs provide a false sense of security. If you like, I can provide you with countless links to people sharing on this forum how they learned the hard way that you can't count on earplugs.

One can find a negative / positive link on the internet to counteract any and all points. I guarantee you that if you search the benefits of walking, you will find posts, articles, and reports of why you shouldn't walk.


Bill, I try my best not to come to this site because I found that when I detected Tinnitus it actually worsened my fears. And, ever since I did that, I have improved my emotional reaction. But when I do come back in moments of curiosity (mainly to continue discussing in private message with people) or when I am feeling overwhelmed by Tinnitus in the moment, I will say that I notice you are very active here.

And I will say that most of your posts are skewed towards the negative and based on "what-ifs" that are pointless because one does not know what can happen to one a minute from now. Why live your life like this?

Again, I can counter your allusion that going to a club or concert may make Tinnitus return and then have the person live with a lifetime of T with the fact that most people improve and that for many it goes away.

And you can counter me back for sure, and I am sure you will.

But I just ask... why so much negativity? It only serves to strike fear into people. I am not saying you are doing this intentionally, but when I read your own comments on my first post that was written under panic, I literally had a panic attack. And since then, I have lived life as normally as I could. Yes, I struggle with my emotional reaction to my Tinnitus, but I have gone to a concert, I have gone to clubs, bars, watched movies, listened to music with headphones (btw... Tinnitus Retraining Therapy uses what are essentially headphones and Sound Enrichment uses SOUND... and both are used to treat Tinnitus). And... so far my perception hasn't improved nor gotten worse.

I just ask you to consider how much panic you may be giving a person with your replies. You can't foresee tomorrow. You dont (and nearly nobody else) know the causes of Tinnitus other than most cases are attributed to noise trauma... but even then one doesn't know if it was triggered by one time exposure or over the years. No one has found a cure for it. The only thing we know is that managing your reaction through methods like CBT do improve one's quality of life -- to the point that one can lead a perfectly normal life.

There is NO way to cocoon yourself to live a life that insures you wont worsen Tinnitus or develop some other medical condition. So why even try to let it control your life?

I am sure you will counter that you are just warning people, but I would urge you to consider you the manner in which you reply to people. It can impose great fear. Fear is not useful.

By the way, the hospital literature I received regarding Tinnitus states that for most people it goes away, it can happen within a year or even decades (though it seems more likely to subside in the first year)... one just doesn't know. And for those that it doesn't get better, the majority are able to habituate and lead normal lives. I have corresponded with Dr. Nagler and another Tinnitus CBT specialist and they repeated these statements.

My father has had Tinnitus for 20 years. It has never gotten worse for him and he has gone to numerous concerts, gun ranges, parties, countless bars, and works in a noise prone heavy machinery industry. Yes, that is just his experience. However, one of my coworkers (quiet office job) also has had Tinnitus for 15+ years and continues to be a rock guitarist without it worsening. Two of my best friends have tinnitus. All only hear it when they focus on it.

Another coworker had it for 5 months and it went away. My best friend's grandfather had it for nearly a year and it went away.

One just doesn't know FOR SURE what caused it or what it will do. Why let it control your life?

I don't wish to engage in an argument on the internet so I will not reply after this post. I just urge you to consider how you reply to people whose emotional states may be fragile, especially early on. I know that I was sensitive when I came on Tinnitus Talk, and I was more frightened than assisted when I read your reply. That is just my personal experience and opinion though.

Thank you.

 

[Bill Bauer]

It serves nothing other than to instill fear and panic into someone.

I will have to resort to an analogy. It IS ok to let another person know that smoking increases their chance of ruining their cancer remission, even though it might instill fear and panic. It is ok to fear scary things. It would be a GREAT outcome if that person were to get second thoughts about acting recklessly. Right?

One can find a negative / positive link on the internet to counteract any and all points.

So your suggestion is to ignore information, and to try to avoid learning from the mistakes made by others?

The way I see it, T is so horrible that it makes sense to pull out all stops to minimize your risk of making it worse (or to maximize your chance of hearing silence again). Experiences of learning the hard way that earplugs provide a false sense of security lead me to believe that the risk of making T permanently worse is Not negligible. Given how horrible T is, it makes sense to me to take this risk (which I would estimate at 1%-0.1% [much higher for people who habitually act recklessly]) seriously and to act accordingly.

Having said all of the above, if a person knows this information and chooses to ignore it, it would totally make my day if they find out the hard way that it was a bad idea to ignore it. It is a win-win.

I guarantee you that if you search the benefits of walking, you will find posts, articles, and reports of why you shouldn't walk.

Everything is about the odds of something bad happening and about what is at stake. T is like being burned alive for the rest of your life. It is so enormously horrific (in a recent thread, the majority of posters agreed that it is the worst thing that had ever happened to them) that it might take a very small chance of getting louder T = making your body uninhabitable, to make an activity to look unappealing.

I will say that I notice you are very active here.

And I will say that most of your posts are skewed towards the negative

Click on my username. A window will pop up. Click the "Ignore" text link.

based on "what-ifs" that are pointless because one does not know what can happen to one a minute from now.

Why can't your argument above be used to argue against public service ads regarding smoking, drunk driving, etc.?

Why live your life like this?

If this will reduce the person's chance of making their T louder (or increase their chance of hearing silence), it would be orders of magnitude better than the Alternative.

most people improve and that for many it goes away.

Unfortunately there had never been any studies done about the fraction of people who spontaneously recover (or whose T fades) in the two groups: a "brave/reckless" group and a "prudent/boring" group. I am also not aware of any studies that tracked the fraction in both of those groups who eventually experience their T coming back.

why so much negativity?

I Am a negative person (as you can see from my avatar and from my posts).

It only serves to strike fear into people.

When people are not scared of things that can hurt them, it is something that needs to be addressed and fixed. (Of course the word "hurt" is not doing justice to what is at stake here.) Right?!

Fear is not useful.

Most of the decisions I had ever taken in my life have been motivated by fear. I had been worried that I would not do well at the university (in later years this fear changed to a fear that I would ruin my perfect GPA). This is what had motivated me to spend all of my waking hours studying, and this had resulted in me earning a Ph.D. degree and getting a career that I am happy about. My fear of getting sick motivates me to have a healthy diet. In any case, my fear keeps me safe and well. I wish I had been More fearful regarding hurting my ears on the day when I got T. No such thing as too much fear!

And since then, I have lived life as normally as I could. Yes, I struggle with my emotional reaction to my Tinnitus, but I have gone to a concert, I have gone to clubs, bars, watched movies, listened to music with headphones

LOL Please, PLEASE continue doing this. When you deny yourself those opportunities for fun, T (and I) win.

When I ask myself "what is more likely to promote my healing - exposing my ears to loud noises that are slightly below the threshold for causing hearing loss in healthy people (noises that have been known to cause permanent T spikes), or protecting my ears from noise", the answer is clear to me. If your answer to this question is different than mine (or if you don't care about the answer), then that's fine with me.

I just ask you to consider how much panic you may be giving a person with your replies.

Yes, there is a good chance that that person will stop being reckless. Could one possibly do something for another person that is more valuable than giving them advice that would reduce the chance of them getting louder T? There must be something that is better, but I can't think of anything.

There is NO way to cocoon yourself to live a life that insures you wont worsen Tinnitus or develop some other medical condition.

They will never be able to make driving completely safe. Using your logic they shouldn't add safety features to cars.

By the way, the hospital literature I received regarding Tinnitus states that for most people it goes away, it can happen within a year or even decades (though it seems more likely to subside in the first year)... one just doesn't know.

If there is something to my beliefs, then most of the people that the passage above refers to are the people from "my" group of people who do what they can to not make their T any worse (and few of them are from "your" group of reckless folks). Of course, there is always a chance that I am wrong (just like there is a chance that you are wrong).

My father has had Tinnitus for 20 years. It has never gotten worse for him and he has gone to numerous concerts, gun ranges, parties, countless bars, and works in a noise prone heavy machinery industry.

He might have experienced his T fading had it not been for his recklessness.

However, one of my coworkers (quiet office job) also has had Tinnitus for 15+ years and continues to be a rock guitarist without it worsening.

Ditto.

so I will not reply after this post

I wish you were to write this at the beginning of your post. I only saw this after I wrote all of the replies above.

I just urge you to consider how you reply to people whose emotional states may be fragile, especially early on.

Noisy events early on are the most important events to motivate them to avoid.

when I read your own comments on my first post that was written under panic, I literally had a panic attack.

I am very sorry to hear that you paid the cost (had a panic attack) but got no benefit (didn't commit to being less reckless). I wish I could address only the people who would actually use the information I provide them with (something I wish someone were to do for me). Too bad it is impossible to tell who those people are.