This Parkinson's Treatment Is Mind-Blowing (DBS - Deep Brain Stimulation)

Discussion in 'Health Talk' started by Champ, Oct 25, 2013.

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    1. Champ
      Woot

      Champ Member Benefactor Team Tech

      Location:
      Boston, MA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma from headphones
      Found this thread on hacker news.

      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6608585

      Thread is about Darpa putting 70 million into deep brain stimulation research.

      First comment in the topic is by user npalli, and he links to this video about a man who underwent DBS for his Parkinson's. Watch the video - it starts and the device is enabled. He turns it off a bit of the way through and frankly it was very difficult for me to watch (I hate seeing people suffering), but when he turns it back on you realize how powerful this kind of stuff can be.

      The effects of DBS on the motor symptoms of...


      Unfortunatley the procedure is very invasive, and not without issues for some. It seems to be safe enough to use as a treatment option, but I'm sure that $70 million will go towards making the implants safer, easier to implant, and more compact.

      I can definitely see this being used for tinnitus at some point. You just get a small insertion of the device, and when you don't wanna hear your tinnitus, you activate it. Bam. Instantly gone. If they can identify the pathways where it begins, it looks like this device can be used setup to work by stimulating those neurons.

      Very cool stuff. Glad to see that guy has a real treatment for his problem, and hopefully big advances can be made with this stuff.
       
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    2. yonkapin

      yonkapin Member Benefactor

      Location:
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      $70 million into something by Darpa is pretty big, those guys are doing some CRAZY, sci-fi movie level stuff.
       
    3. christine kauhane
      Sunshine

      christine kauhane Member

      Location:
      honolulu hawaii
      Tinnitus Since:
      june 9th 2013
      wow ,praying that someone finds something that could turn this darn ringing off ! would'nt that be nice....
       
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    4. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I think DBS will be a very possible solution for T in the future ... read this ...

      A stroke of silence: tinnitus suppression following placement of a deep brain stimulation electrode with infarction in area LC.
      Larson PS, Cheung SW.
      Source
      Department of Neurological Surgery, University of California, San Francisco, California 94143-0112, USA. larsonp@neurosurg.ucsf.edu

      Abstract
      The authors report on a case of tinnitus suppression following deep brain stimulation (DBS) for Parkinson disease. A perioperative focal vascular injury to area LC, a locus of the caudate at the junction of the head and body of the caudate nucleus, is believed to be the neuroanatomical correlate. A 56-year-old woman underwent surgery for implantation of a DBS lead in the subthalamic nucleus to treat medically refractory motor symptoms. She had comorbid tinnitus localized to both ears. The lead trajectory was adjacent to area LC. Shortly after surgery, she reported tinnitus suppression in both ears. Postoperative MRI showed focal hyperintensity of area LC on T2-weighted images. At 18 months, tinnitus localized to the ipsilateral ear remained completely silenced, and tinnitus localized to the contralateral ear was substantially suppressed due to left area LC injury. To the authors' knowledge, this is the first report of a discrete injury to area LC that resulted in bilateral tinnitus suppression. Clinicians treating patients with DBS may wish to include auditory phantom assessment as part of the neurological evaluation.
       
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    5. Erlend
      Question it

      Erlend Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Scandinavia
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      05/2013
      This is opening the skull and putting a thing in your brain right?
      Gonna be expensive, but yes, this is the kind of "shortcut" that may give us an early cure!
       
    6. Champ
      Woot

      Champ Member Benefactor Team Tech

      Location:
      Boston, MA
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma from headphones
      Damn, so it's already happened.

      That's pretty cool. My tinnitus sucks and I think about it more than I should (har har guess I'm in the right place right guys) but I'd definitely not risk it just to deal with the tinnitus. It's benign, and thus not worth undergoing a highly invasive surgery for me. Once they make this implantation more of a routine operation than a "rip open the head" sort of thing I'd be all over it. If the device was customizable enough it could be even be used for preventing or treating any other unlucky neurological crap that might happen to you.

      The good news is we have something that already *works*. That's always step 1. Remember that we had crappy PDAs in the early 90s, and now we have quad core smartphones. And tech moves faster and faster each year. There's already teams of researchers looking to improve this existing technolgoy - the DARPA funding is going to this cause for sure.
       
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    7. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
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      10/2011
      Very amazing stuff! I wonder if Michael J. Fox is aware of this treatment for Parkinson's?
       
    8. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
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      Syringing
      Yes he definitely is. https://www.michaeljfox.org/understanding-parkinsons/living-with-pd/topic.php?deep-brain-stimulation

      DBS is also used for essential tremor with varying success. I know a man who suffers from ET and underwent DBS - is like a new man.

      Just like in the videos, the difference between the device turned off and on is so unbelievable.

      In Finland DBS has been used for years already, especially for Parkinson's, but also for essential tremor and depression.

      Here's an article (in Finnish) about treating major depression with DBS: http://www.mediuutiset.fi/uutisarkisto/hyks aloittaa masennuksen aivokirurgian/a125954

      The study was started in 2007 so the results are probably already in.
      Translated into English: According to Helen S. Mayberg, who carried out the pilot study, the electricity improves depression by inhibiting the Broadmann's area 25 that is overly active in people suffering from depression.
       
    9. LadyDi
      Busy

      LadyDi Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Florida, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barotrauma/airplane
      I also had heard they were looking at deep-brain stimulation for tinnitus. I do agree that at this point, the technology is invasive (and expensive) enough that I would think twice before using it for my T. But I think ultimately we may see a treatment for tinnitus evolving from this technology, and have greater hope for some kind of electrical intervention than anything else.

      By the way: I had a co-worker who had been diagnosed with early onset Parkinsons, like Fox, last year. While she was able to continue working for awhile, her symptoms were very obvious. She then had the deep brain stimulator surgery earlier this year and upon returning to work, after being away for about two-three months, she was like a different person. It was nothing close to miraculous.
       
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    10. Leah

      Leah Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chardon, Ohio USA
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      2007
      Wow, my question is how willing would the docs be to use something like this for T. They tell us to tune it out,
      ignore the noise on and on. What would the criteria be to have this invasive treatment for something that most ENTs believe is something we can "ignore". There are moments when it gets so bad I would say sign me up.
      Shouldn't we be seeing brain specialists rather than ENTs?
       
    11. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      I have read the price is between 30.000 and 50.000 USD ... around the same as to have your brain changed through HIFU surgery... The thing I also read is that DBS has positive effects but some of them only last 10 years. I read that people after 10 years have trouble sitting and getting up again and speaking even when the device is on. Maybe I rather have my brain zapped with HIFU ... ? ...
       
    12. LadyDi
      Busy

      LadyDi Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Florida, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barotrauma/airplane
      Yes Nills, My colleague said the DSB would work for her for about 10 years. It also requires a strict diet and medication regime. Still, given the alternatives where she would be with Parkinson's otherwise in 10 years... Tinnitus,as horrible as it is, is not Parkinsons.
       
    13. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      yes it is true, this discovery is a god sent for the people that suffer from parkinsons ... it just makes me think about the fact that the brain even adapts to this electrical input ... like it does n`t want to get better and overwrite any healthy balance with an unhealthy one. the question then is, why?
       
    14. mick

      mick Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      Just as a counter point ... I know a person (not very well), who had a DBS device implanted for Parkinsons, and she received no benefit. Same after as before. Perhaps it slowed the progression of the disease. She is in pretty bad shape at this point (worse than before the the implantation), but there is no telling where she would be now without the implantation. Maybe worse. Unfortunately, medical treatments don't come with guarantees, and often are not reversible.

      While this women lives a life that I could never stand to live, she in many ways is a reasonably happy person. It's amazing to me how she perseveres.
       
    15. frohike
      Approved

      frohike Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
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      That's to be expected given that Parkinson's is chronic and progressive. According to Wikipedia, DBS carries a risk of psychiatric side effects.
       
    16. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      So if it is progressive I understand why this happens ... How does DBS carry risks for psychiatric side effects? Can you tell a bit about that? ... mainly interesting to know how these effects come about from a device.
       
    17. frohike
      Approved

      frohike Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma
    18. LadyDi
      Busy

      LadyDi Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Florida, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Barotrauma/airplane
      Thanks for your perspective Mick. You make a good point that any of us hoping for a cure should keep in mind; one size does not fit all when it comes to treatments particularly when the brain is involved. And as you said there are no guarantees.

      Your friend sounds like a very inspirational person. I continues to amaze me how life transforming a medical crisis can be. I respect and honor her journey.
       
    19. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Director Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Team Trobalt Team Tech Team Awareness Team Research

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
    20. Carlo
      Balanced

      Carlo Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Italy
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      07/2013
    21. Tenna
      Anime

      Tenna Member

      Location:
      Europe
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2013
      never have I been this much updated on different studies and trials so my t did bring some good aye!
      and it's great news, some of the greatest cures always happen by accident = )
       
    22. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      If only tinnitus had that much funding.
       
    23. Michael Murray
      Conehead

      Michael Murray Member Benefactor Team Tech

      Location:
      Texas
      Tinnitus Since:
      1994
      I can identify for sure. I just got diagnosed with PD in May this year. I returned to work after "recovering" from a downfall of serious symptoms I didn't understand until this last month. I have tinnitus , but way before the PD showed up. Not sure if it is related, but I now know I have been struggling with PD for at least 4 years. I am 44 now.

      I am a scientist (engineer) and have been informing co-workers why I left work or two months. Now that I am being treated, I am much better off. DBS may be in my future.
       
    24. Beste
      Disappointed

      Beste Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      02/16/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Benzo/Clonazepam, Stress
      If this device really does work for tinnitus by swictching it on and off then MuteButton will need to change their name. Lol.
       
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