Train Horn Exposure: Can It Damage Hearing or Make Tinnitus Worse?

[simon225]

Hi everyone,

Today I took the train to school, and when I got out I had to walk under a small bridge that the train passes over. Just as I walked out from underneath it, the train blasted its horn. I had a dB meter app running on my phone, which showed a maximum of 86 dB at the moment it happened. I know that is not very loud for a short sound, but I am worried the measurement might not have been accurate because the train was behind me to my left, while my phone was in my right hand.

Can someone give me advice on how to handle this, and whether it could be damaging? Any advice would really help.

 

[Scruffiey]

Did you get a spike? Any alteration in hearing thresholds? If not, no harm done.

If you didn't, not a lot you can do about it... I doubt a doctor is going to prescribe prednisone because you heard a train horn.
Wait it out, and it'll pass.

Just keep calm, and you'll probably forget about it in a couple of weeks. Accidents happen, and it sounds more like you're just anxious about it rather than it having caused an issue.

 

[dingaling]

If it was just a short blast, then I wouldn't worry.

If you already have tinnitus and the train horn exacerbated it (made worse), then, provided that you don't get anxious over it, nothing will happen.

 

[Yosemite]

I take it you don't wear earplugs outdoors?

Did your tinnitus spike after the train horn exposure? If it didn't, then I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[simon225]

I take it you don't wear earplugs outdoors?

Did your tinnitus spike after the train horn exposure? If it didn't, then I wouldn't worry about it.

I try my best not to. I started wearing hearing protection many times a year ago, and it gave me mild hyperacusis. So now I am trying to go back outdoors without earplugs, but I do keep my dB meter on when I find myself in busy or stressful situations, like today.

The horn did make my tinnitus worse, but I have experienced a lot of stress during the past weeks, which also made it worse, so I do not know which of the 2 is the cause.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

 

[dingaling]

Stress will have put your brain into "Danger alert" and as a result, neurones in the auditory cortex will have "shut the filter gates" so that your hearing (and hyperacusis) will have become more hyper-sensitive.

 

[Rainer]

I started wearing hearing protection many times a year ago, and it gave me mild hyperacusis.

You could try electronic earmuffs for shooters. These are designed to limit noise to 83 dB(A) maximum, but do not muffle softer sounds.

Personally, I prefer the Sordin Supreme Pro-X with neckband and gel pads.

Did you get a spike? Any alteration in hearing thresholds? If not, no harm done.

I don't think that this is a valid conclusion. @simon225 posted his question on the day of the incident, and for many people (including me), the aftermath comes several days later.

 

[Scruffiey]

You could try electronic earmuffs for shooters. These are designed to limit noise to 83 dB(A) maximum, but do not muffle softer sounds.

Personally, I prefer the Sordin Supreme Pro-X with neckband and gel pads.

I don't think that this is a valid conclusion. @simon225 posted his question on the day of the incident, and for many people (including me), the aftermath comes several days later.

I'm well aware. I was trying to be supportive and stop them from spiraling into further anxiety over something they're not going to have any control over. From the original post, it sounded like anxiety about the event.

If it does get worse, which I hope it doesn't, then we can advise. For the time being, there isn't a lot that can be done apart from hoping for the best and that any potential future spike will be short-lived.

So for now, the best thing to do is to try to stay calm. It sounded like they're already doing their best to avoid loud noise, given the constant dB measurements, so I felt it didn't need to be reiterated.

If there'd been a threshold shift or a particularly bad spike, I might've reconsidered and suggested something different.

Shooter earmuffs may be a good suggestion for the future, rather than constant vigilance.

 

[Maruashen]

I think you will be fine. Maybe rest your ears for a couple of days, and I bet you are already doing that.

Last year, a bus honked its horn when I was right in front of it while walking into a taxi, and it somehow did not make my tinnitus worse.

Train horns can be loud, very loud, but the decibel level also decreases quickly within the first few meters from the horn. It sounds to me like the train was about 25 meters from you, just guessing.

The horn is mounted on the train's roof, and you were under a bridge. Those are several factors that would reduce the sound level. Let's say the horn was 140 dBA at 1 meter. If so, it would probably have been around 112 dBA at your ears in free air, but this was not free air. There was the train below the horn, the bridge, and a lot of air movement around, so to be fair, 86 dBA seems quite plausible.

For a brief sound like that, I try to tell myself that it becomes dangerous at 100 dB or higher. A lot, and I mean a lot, of everyday sounds are in the 85 to 95 dB LCpeak range.

 

[simon225]

I think you will be fine. Maybe rest your ears for a couple of days, and I bet you are already doing that.

Last year, a bus honked its horn when I was right in front of it while walking into a taxi, and it somehow did not make my tinnitus worse.

Train horns can be loud, very loud, but the decibel level also decreases quickly within the first few meters from the horn. It sounds to me like the train was about 25 meters from you, just guessing.

The horn is mounted on the train's roof, and you were under a bridge. Those are several factors that would reduce the sound level. Let's say the horn was 140 dBA at 1 meter. If so, it would probably have been around 112 dBA at your ears in free air, but this was not free air. There was the train below the horn, the bridge, and a lot of air movement around, so to be fair, 86 dBA seems quite plausible.

For a brief sound like that, I try to tell myself that it becomes dangerous at 100 dB or higher. A lot, and I mean a lot, of everyday sounds are in the 85 to 95 dB LCpeak range.

Thanks a lot for your reply! I also try to remind myself that, in order to live a somewhat normal life, these are sounds I have to accept. For me, the maximum decibel level I can tolerate for a short burst of sound is around 107 dB. Anything beyond that seems like it could have a lasting effect on my tinnitus. As you said, there's really no way to avoid loud sounds in everyday life. I'm just hoping my tinnitus will calm down over the next few days or weeks.


It's also good to hear that the bus horn didn't make your tinnitus worse. I can imagine that could have been really stressful.

 

[simon225]

Does anybody here know how accurate decibel meters are on smartphones for short peaks (fireworks, horns, etc)? I use Decibel X on my iPhone 12. What margin should I consider for short sounds?

 

[zeukin]

Does anybody here know how accurate decibel meters are on smartphones for short peaks (fireworks, horns, etc)? I use Decibel X on my iPhone 12. What margin should I consider for short sounds?

I personally wouldn't rely on phones for accurate decibel measurements, since they aren't calibrated for that purpose. From what I've gathered, phones use a limiter, which can skew readings by amplifying quieter sounds and making loud sounds appear louder or inconsistent. You're better off using a professional decibel meter if you want accurate measurements in the future.

 

[Maruashen]

Decibel X seems quite poor compared to NIOSH SLM for iPhones, based on what I have seen from my own research.

It is much easier to properly calibrate a measurement app on phones where the hardware is known and consistent. That is why NIOSH SLM only exists on iPhones and not on Android devices.

When measuring short sound peaks, you need to use LCpeak. Otherwise, the measurement is largely meaningless.

The Slow setting usually corresponds to 1 second.
The Fast setting usually corresponds to 0.125 seconds, or 125 milliseconds.

However, short peaks typically last much less time, often around 5 to 25 milliseconds. Because of this, measuring peaks using the Fast setting is still of limited value.

 

[kingsfan]

I personally wouldn't rely on phones for accurate decibel measurements, since they aren't calibrated for that purpose. From what I've gathered, phones use a limiter, which can skew readings by amplifying quieter sounds and making loud sounds appear louder or inconsistent. You're better off using a professional decibel meter if you want accurate measurements in the future.

Most available decibel meters stop at 8 kHz. Not that great.

iPhone is a pretty good device with the right software. Developers can turn the limiter off: https://studiosixdigital.com/audio-hardware/generic-audio-hardware/iphone_3gs_microphone/

Adding a reference mic is even better: https://www.daytonaudio.com/product/1117/imm-6-idevice-calibrated-measurement-microphone

 

[Maruashen]

Adding that mic isn't that important.

I've been running 2 different setups, and I've tested them simultaneously.

One setup is an iPhone 12 Pro Max. I just installed the NIOSH SLM app, with no configurations made.

The second setup is an iPhone XR with the mic you're referring to, the Daytona iMM-6, calibrated with a certificate. I've also calibrated it myself using an external sound calibrator bought from a music store, the AZ 8930 Sound Calibrator.

The results are identical.

I've been measuring many different things, and the results are always within plus or minus 2 dB, if even that. Usually, they're exactly the same.

I've also compared both setups to a good external sound level meter, the Extech SL510, which costs about $200, and they show very similar readings as well. That external meter can't measure LCpeak, only FAST and SLOW.

The best option would be a sound level meter that can measure LCpeak on its own, but those are usually priced around $1700 to $3000 where I live.

That said, I also want to add that this is a very toxic route to take. Starting to measure every sound is something I don't recommend at all for habituation.

Sounds happen. You can't live your life in fear of sounds, and measuring everything usually creates more fear. LCpeak almost always shows worse numbers than you expect, and in my opinion, that gives you nothing except more anxiety.

Do you feel that a certain sound is loud? Then it probably is.

If you recently developed hyperacusis and everything feels loud, you likely remember how you lived your life before the hearing damage, and you can use that as a reference instead.

Have I applied this way of thinking? Logically, yes. In reality, no. But I'm doing my best to rely on myself more and more, because I believe that's the only way to recover.

 

[kingsfan]

Decibel X seems quite poor compared to NIOSH SLM for iPhones, based on what I have seen from my own research.

It is much easier to properly calibrate a measurement app on phones where the hardware is known and consistent. That is why NIOSH SLM only exists on iPhones and not on Android devices.

When measuring short sound peaks, you need to use LCpeak. Otherwise, the measurement is largely meaningless.

The Slow setting usually corresponds to 1 second.
The Fast setting usually corresponds to 0.125 seconds, or 125 milliseconds.

However, short peaks typically last much less time, often around 5 to 25 milliseconds. Because of this, measuring peaks using the Fast setting is still of limited value.

This is good to know. I've never used the Peak or Impulse measurements, only the Fast option. This could explain why I've had spikes when I felt I shouldn't have, based on the decibel reading.

I also struggle to make sense of any dBC measurements, as I'm not sure what the thresholds for those are, since all of the readings are typically much higher than dBA. So I know I'm missing valuable information by only using dBA, but it's just what I'm accustomed to.

 

[simon225]

Adding that mic isn't that important.

I've been running 2 different setups, and I've tested them simultaneously.

One setup is an iPhone 12 Pro Max. I just installed the NIOSH SLM app, with no configurations made.

The second setup is an iPhone XR with the mic you're referring to, the Daytona iMM-6, calibrated with a certificate. I've also calibrated it myself using an external sound calibrator bought from a music store, the AZ 8930 Sound Calibrator.

The results are identical.

I've been measuring many different things, and the results are always within plus or minus 2 dB, if even that. Usually, they're exactly the same.

I've also compared both setups to a good external sound level meter, the Extech SL510, which costs about $200, and they show very similar readings as well. That external meter can't measure LCpeak, only FAST and SLOW.

The best option would be a sound level meter that can measure LCpeak on its own, but those are usually priced around $1700 to $3000 where I live.

That said, I also want to add that this is a very toxic route to take. Starting to measure every sound is something I don't recommend at all for habituation.

Sounds happen. You can't live your life in fear of sounds, and measuring everything usually creates more fear. LCpeak almost always shows worse numbers than you expect, and in my opinion, that gives you nothing except more anxiety.

Do you feel that a certain sound is loud? Then it probably is.

If you recently developed hyperacusis and everything feels loud, you likely remember how you lived your life before the hearing damage, and you can use that as a reference instead.

Have I applied this way of thinking? Logically, yes. In reality, no. But I'm doing my best to rely on myself more and more, because I believe that's the only way to recover.

I've had hyperacusis for about a year now. I think it may have developed from overprotection, although I'm not completely sure. Over the past year, it has fluctuated; at times, it's been worse, and at other times, it's improved.

I understand that constantly measuring sound levels isn't ideal. However, I live in the Netherlands, and in the weeks leading up to New Year's Eve, there is already a lot of fireworks in my area. Because of that, I sometimes use a decibel meter when I go outside to avoid overprotecting while still feeling safe.

 

[Maruashen]

This is good to know. I've never used the Peak or Impulse measurements, only the Fast option. This could explain why I've had spikes when I felt I shouldn't have, based on the decibel reading.

I also struggle to make sense of any dBC measurements, as I'm not sure what the thresholds for those are, since all of the readings are typically much higher than dBA. So I know I'm missing valuable information by only using dBA, but it's just what I'm accustomed to.

I can summarize what I have learned quite briefly. It is always good to know, in case someone reads this in the future.

Most decibel meters use either FAST or SLOW measurements, like I mentioned earlier. These are great for measuring things like a concert, standing next to a highway, or other types of fairly constant noise over time. For sudden sounds, such as a door slam, a gunshot, dropping something on the floor, or fireworks, they are kind of useless.

Let us say that the peak sound of dropping a phone on the floor is 115 dBC for 12.5 ms, and you are using FAST. In practice, the meter will only show an averaged value. Roughly speaking, it becomes something like (115 × 1 + surrounding sound × 9) divided by 10. If the surrounding sound level is, for example, 50 dBC, the display would theoretically show about 56.5 dBC. In reality, there is usually some rattling or reverberation after those 12.5 ms, so the meter might show something closer to 75 dBC.

So, dBC is basically just a more unfiltered version of dBA, right?

With dBA, you are filtering out frequencies that are considered less harmful to the human ear, such as very low frequencies, and keeping the higher frequencies that are more likely to damage the hair cells inside the cochlea. For example, if you have 80 dB at 100 Hz, a dBA measurement applies a reduction to that value before showing it on the display. You might see something like minus 20 dB at 100 Hz, minus 15 dB at 250 Hz, minus 9 dB at 500 Hz, and so on. These numbers are just illustrative.

dBC does not apply that reduction. It simply shows the decibel level being received.

A typical situation with a lot of low frequencies would be being outside in a city environment, with a highway a few miles away. On a dBA reading, you might get around 40 dB, while on a dBC reading you might get closer to 50 dB. This happens because the dBA measurement slightly reduces those lower frequencies that are generally less harmful to our ears.

I am not entirely sure, to be honest. Constantly measuring in dBC can be somewhat confusing, I think.

And if anyone notices that I am wrong about something, please let me know. I do not want to give out false information.