Update: NUCCA Chiropractor Refuses to Treat Me

Discussion in 'Support' started by Jack Thompson, Nov 1, 2016.

    1. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      attheedgeofwackyanecdotalscience:
      Dr. Harriet Hall MD (video) versus you.
      You lose...lol.
      Say hello your chiropractor for me.
      $$K-jing. Next
      PS: if you decide to leave again, I am sure there will be a service in your honor...or rather a celebration. :asshat:
       
    2. attheedgeofscience
      No Mood

      attheedgeofscience Member Mighty Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Resolved since 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      See information page
      You evidently have no clue about my contributions to the worldwide tinnitus community. So, at least I was right about the ignorant part. But then again, that's quite common for Internet people...

      I have no idea who she is, nor, am I particularly interested in finding out - I am busy with other things. I have quite an extensive network of contacts related to tinnitus incl. CEOs, researchers and physicians. So if there is something I need to understand and that I don't understand already myself, then all I need to do is reach out.

      Lose? It seems to me that I won:

      www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/my-turn-to-post-a-success-story.16522

      Good luck "my friend" - I think you will need it. Incidentally, you represent the type of Internet dude who was the catalyst for me setting up a closed network of information sharing for a select group of people more than a year ago. I mean - who wants to spend their time debating with uninformed people, right? Not me, at least.

      Let me know how you get on with that campaign on research: there is no standardized treatment/cure for tinnitus coming the next several-to-many years. Trust me. So I suggest you get busy...
       
    3. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Of course you don't. Dr. Hall has forgotten more about the chiropractic 'fallacy' than you ever considered.
      Good luck on your exclusionary mission. A cure to tinnitus will be found in spite of your efforts.
      No doubt if it occurs on your watch, you will take credit for it...lol.
       
      • Funny Funny x 1
    4. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.

      She herself gives credit to Osteopathy. Yes - the early chiropractors weren't correct about much. But 30 years after that Medical Doctors thought that ice cream caused polio.

      OF COURSE you should go to the osteopath. I see an osteopath, who does chiropractic adjustments as well as soft tissue release / manipulation - and it helps, incredibly. and it helps many others as well.

      she also says the sacrum can't be adjusted. guess what? the sacroiliac joint very much can. ask me how I know - having had 3 surgeries on the hip / groin with NYC's top doctors at HSS and seeing the physical therapists they work with to correct pelvic twist and thoracic spine issues - one of which does chiropractic adjustments. As I mentioned earlier, this was successful.

      don't like it? don't go. but also stop acting you like you're the end all be all b/c you found a video on the FB page "skeptics guide to the universe".
       
      • Like Like x 1
    5. Candy

      Candy Member Benefactor Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unidentified
      @attheedgeofscience - what do you mean by no standardised treatment. Does your research lead you to believe there will be some forms of treatments for some tinnitus sufferers? Please tell me there is some hope...:)
       
    6. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Tom,
      My DO is an osteopath. He adjusted my neck. I still have T. Tom, I presume you have had adjustments. Perhaps many.
      Did it cure your T?
      Would love to hear all the testimonies. You said you had 3 surgeries to your pelvis area. Wow. How do you know 'subluxations' had a single thing to do with your recovery?
       
    7. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      I said before that chiropractors cannot cure tinnitus. I also said the somatic elements of my tinnitus have gotten better as a result.

      Subluxations had absolutely nothing to do with my pelvis injury. Dead lifting and bone spurs did.

      My point is that there is merit to that type of thing, and it shouldn't be totally dismissed. There are quacks that don't evolve, and its easy to pick on them. But let's not pretend that the whole thing is garbage.
       
    8. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Tom,
      Not to be alarmist about chiropractors but you may have heard that visits sometimes albeit rarely, cause the unintended consequence of stroke or death.
      Here is a recent example...they don't cover this in their brochures in the waiting room.;)

      34 years old:
      http://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainm...used-by-chiropractor-autopsy-finds/ar-AAj9m6j
       
    9. Tom Cnyc

      Tom Cnyc Member

      Location:
      NYC
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Warehouse event after years of enjoying music.
      you suggesting that all doctors or pharmaceuticals don't occasionally cause stroke or death? c'mon dude.
       
    10. PaulBe

      PaulBe Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Cairns
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably sound, though never proven
      This.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. John G

      John G Member

      There will be never be one cure for all types of T. So many different reasons people get T. Head,neck trauma, noise induced,anxiety etc. All you socalled experts saying no about this and that treatment. Some of you think you know so much..but you dont know jack shit. What works for one person...may not work for another. Plain and simple
       
    12. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      No question that administration of meds causes death or unintended consequences on rare occassion...including administration of anti depressants like prosaic causing some to jump out windows.

      I just don't believe that abrupt rotation of neck or spine to be a good thing including what it does to musculature when a lot of pain isn't due to spine maladies but rather soft tissue injury...many times by overuse due to asymmetric repetitive loading or stress which can 'bend the spine'...or even more benign muscle imbalance that can resolve on its own. Manipulating the spine to resolve muscle imbalance is the opposite way to address the problem. Address muscle imbalance due to repetive loading and the spine resolves naturally unless the spine is repetitively abused creating a structural abnormality which in turn may require surgery. Many chiropractors for example don't even look at x-rays...they believe they can 'feel' spine misalignment. No two chiros even make the same type of adjustment looking at the same x-rays. There is more quackery in so called chiropractic 'profession' than elsewhere in the medical community and there is a 'a lot' of malpractice Tom...botched surgeries and miss administration of meds etc. As you know, administration of meds is in fact many times trial and error including even dosage. Doctors don't know the precise reaction of a medicine for a given patient and dosage can even change with time based upon acclimation of the body. There are generally side effects to taking meds as well as you know.
       
    13. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      John,
      I don't share your same conviction on never being a cure for all types of tinnitus and will share why I believe this. Even though the root of tinnitus may be different as you noted, the mechanism of tinnitus is the same...the brain having electrical stimuli by neurons that stimulate the auditory cortex that create the illusion of sound. I don't believe that the defective hearing apparatus we each have has to be completely fixed to eliminate tinnitus...or what has caused the electrical firing of our brain to change and now recognize a sound called tinnitus.
      I believe with time there will be a way to 'weed' out aberrant firing neurons 'independent of the cause' associated with creating a pseudo sound known as tinnitus. This process may in fact be trial and error on some level. It may take implantation of an electrical device...perhaps even a magnetic field into the brain that will have noise cancelling capability not unlike a hearing aid external to the body that has its frequency response calibrated by computer. The difficulty with tinnitus is the construct of sound is an illusion of the brain. No sound exists on the planet or in the universe, simply air disturbance.
      Each person has a rather unique sound signature for their tinnitus and these frequencies will have to be tuned out likely by asking a given patient if sound abatement for particular frequencies occurs by tuning the device. In fact, I believe that tinnitus will be cured even without a deep dive into regrowing new hair within the cochlea for example. Many here know that some have hearing loss without the disruption of tinnitus because their brain doesn't recognize the frequencies that they can no longer hear. There is a reason for this and I believe it gives hope that one day this state can be induced by implanting an electrical device that changes neural pathways or interrupts neural pathways such that the sound of tinnitus is no longer recognized by the brain. Call this device an adjunct to the brain to guide neural plasticity.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    14. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      And of course some report a spike in their tinnitus after visiting a chiro.
       
    15. attheedgeofscience
      No Mood

      attheedgeofscience Member Mighty Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Denmark
      Tinnitus Since:
      Resolved since 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      See information page
      There will be no mass market standardized treatment for tinnitus for the foreseeable future. That means there will no drug or medical intervention which will be able to reliably treat with good results a sizeable part of the tinnitus population (incl. people with chronic tinnitus). If you - or someone - had asked the same question, say, two years ago, then probably there was a different sense of optimism: the beginning of the phase-II trial of the QUIET-1 study was imminent and AM-101 was well into phase-III (although on a slightly weak basis one could argue i.e. it was a subgroup of patients who had been shown to benefit).

      But all that has changed: there seems to be problems with the reliability of the animal models that were built to test efficacy of tinnitus during the past decade (read: method of induction of tinnitus i.e. aspirin vs noise, GAP detection, and possibly now also problems with tinnitus-resistant animals - see paper by Prof. Tzounopoulos on HCN channels and GLAST gene paper by Prof. Cederroth; result is that better/more reliable models are needed). There is also a problem with funding of the pharma companies that have actually taken their research to a clinical stage (probably because the chance of failure is relatively high): the whole Pittsburgh Kv-channel community is suffering from this; so are other researchers looking into this field of research. The specs of AM-102 remain to be seen, but, given the financially delicate Auris Medical has found itself in, then I cannot help but wonder if we will see delays on this front as well (and in any event, it is not known what the patient profile will be for the drug).

      So: there will be nothing coming to your rescue in the near future (possibly for quite a number of years, in fact)? Is there hope? Well, it depends on what your criteria for hope is I suppose. It also depends a bit on the size of your wallet, your willingness to experiment, and your "luck". As it happens, there is quite a bit of niche research going on in relation to curative (read: "treatment") investigations of tinnitus - to name a few:
      • CR Neuromodulation
      • Electrical stimulation of the ear
      • rTMS
      • Cold laser therapy
      • HIFU
      The overall problem encountered with these therapies is that a specific patient profile needs to be identified - and that's no easy task with a subjective condition. That's why I write "luck" in the paragraph above - because you need just that: luck! Diagnostics for a condition such as tinnitus is as important as the drugs themselves. At this point, HIFU is probably the most serious intervention offered to tinnitus sufferers: there is a reliable screening with high-resolution EEG scans which confirm (or reject) a diagnosis of thalamocortical dysrhythmia. With a positive confirmation, the patient can likely be treated. Cost: CHF 2,200 (for screening) + CHF 32,000 (for intervention) if I recall correctly. Add to that a 6-12 months waiting list as Prof. Jeanmonod is the only neurosurgeon in the world who performs this type of intervention. Another example might be the relatively few people who suffer from autoimmune hearing loss: here stem cells (even simply IV-injected) are known to work really well for reversing the loss of hearing thresholds (no studies on tinnitus, however - just one anecdotal account).

      Is there more hope? Well, theoretically yes. If the +1 million annual visitors of this forum would make the incredibly small effort to just rate the Frontiers Research Topic via the social media then that would greatly increase the chance of winning the sponsored conference and promote tinnitus research. Whether that "theoretical yes" will turn into a "practical yes" is probably less likely. As I have a significant amount of experience with advocacy, I would say that chance of the combined tinnitus community ever contributing with a small click of the mouse button is about as likely to occur as achieving lasting peace in the Middle East (or finding an ice cube in the Sahara Desert on a hot afternoon).
       
      • Informative Informative x 2
      • Agree Agree x 1
    16. gotyoubynuts

      gotyoubynuts Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      10/1990
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Concert
      what difference would a conference make

      aren't there already yearly t conferences anyway
       
    17. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      attheedgeofscience:

      In spite of what I considered to be an outrageous and derogatory post a while back, I find your above post to be thoughtful and well presented. Thanks for that. Agree, we are a ways out for finding any sort of recognized cure and yes complicated by the heterogeneity of this disorder....tinnitus effectively being a brain processing disorder that has many different reasons for developing.

      Lastly, the problem with using animals for studies, is most animals simply can't articulate the difference in their hearing based upon changes that are tried. ;)

      Thanks for sharing your vision of the future even if not overly optimistic that a cure for tinnitus is just around the corner which is probably an accurate assertion.
       
    18. Zug
      Woot

      Zug Member Benefactor

      The Topic got a little derailed. Tinnitus sucks, a lot of people out there will gladly take your money (and then break your heart) with promises about making you better. To her credit, this professional is being sincere about what she can and can't do for you.
       
    19. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      Jack Thompson

      Jack Thompson Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      neck trauma
      the fact that she didn't even take x rays to see, when she knows I was showing signs of misalignment is unprofessional, I think she is saying that she thinks my symptoms are because I'm vegan and not because I have a neck problem, anyway, I got my £180 refund today and saved myself £500 from not getting her treatment so financially I'm happy, I will be seeing another more local chiropractor next week and I just booked a flight to Italy next month, enjoy life, keep smiling :)
       
    20. Zug
      Woot

      Zug Member Benefactor

      Cool. Enjoy life, remember this since you're traveling and have some fun in Italy! :D

      Seriously, do what you gotta do, but try to remember that a lot of Tinnitus sufferers will have stories about money spent on people promising to "cure" them. Don't get too carried away in this search. I tried a lot of stuff and Time and CBT are doing the trick.
       
    21. stophiss

      stophiss Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      April 2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      too full a life
      Tellin' you dude, it isn't the vegan thing. Shave the beard, put a tux on and pay her a visit and she will take your money. :D
       
    22. Candy

      Candy Member Benefactor Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unidentified
      @attheedgeofscience - thank you for your detailed response, I am going to study it, do some research over the weekend, this week has been so busy.

      To all, going to the BTA info day tomorrow, any questions I can ask please forward.
       
    23. Samantha R

      Samantha R Member Benefactor Ambassador

      Location:
      Geelong Australia
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      @Candy hope you are well. Let us know how you get at the BTA info day. I will be interested to hear.
       

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