Very Loud Fire Alarm. Feel Like I'm Back to Square One.

[Alue]

I just went through a very loud fire alarm at a customer's building yesterday. You know it's bad when people that don't have tinnitus are running out of the building holding their hands over their ears. I actually had a decibel meter in my pocket at the time and it was a solid 115 dB! Much louder than my home fire alarm or ones I recall at my previous place of employment. How is something that loud even acceptable in a non-emergency situation (drill testing etc.)? My head is screaming at me today.

I was about to update the post I made a year ago here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/two-year-anniversary.25868/ saying that I was doing a lot better, but it seems like that was premature. I'm afraid this might just put me back to square one. I know this thread serves no purpose but I'm back to worrying about my ears and I don't know what else to do.

 

[Eric N]

same boat my friend, massive spike from a 95db slamming door and 11 days and no sign of improvement I have no idea what to do either.

I will never write a success story because it only good till the next spike

 

[Alue]

same boat my friend, massive spike from a 95db slamming door and 11 days and no sign of improvement I have no idea what to do either.

I will never write a success story because it only good till the next spike

There's no explaining to people either. They just don't get it. They think 'O since it's a safety device it's can't possibly do hearing damage'. 115dB+ (on an actual dB meter) - that's just excessive. I put on my earmuffs within a minute, but it still sounded like it was the same volume once they were on (even though I know they help). Once noises get past a certain threshold my brain just freezes and I can't tell how loud they are...

 

[Bill Bauer]

This is as sad and disturbing as it gets...

 

[Alue]

This is as sad and disturbing as it gets...

Maybe it's premature saying I'm back to square one. I won't know until some time has passed, but the waiting sucks.

I can endure almost anything if I know it has a definitive end to it.

Fire alarms are something you just cannot avoid. This alarm was much louder than any fire alarm I've heard before.

 

[Bill Bauer]

I won't know until some time has passed, but the waiting sucks.

Yes, you won't know for months.

This was unavoidable - you even had earmuffs with you, and your T still had spiked...

Have you considered taking Prednisone, melatonin, or NAC?

 

[Alue]

Yes, you won't know for months.

This was unavoidable - you even had earmuffs with you, and your T still had spiked...

Have you considered taking Prednisone, melatonin, or NAC?

No new tones yet. I'll probably know more in a couple weeks (based on past experience).

The time before I was able to pull out my earmuffs and put them on probably did me in. There were several alarms in the lab area and I was near one.

All of the above, though I'm very wary taking prednisone while fighting a cold . Took a very small amount of trobalt to take the edge off before bed (25mg). It's really a crap-shoot taking things post trauma.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The time before I was able to pull out my earmuffs and put them on probably did me in.

I thought that always carrying Peltor muffs with me was enough. I carry them in a cloth bag, together with some other things. Now I see that it makes sense to always ensure that the muffs are at the top, so that in an emergency one doesn't need to look for them among the other things in the bag...

 

[Julien87]

How many seconds were you exposed to 115 dB? The average human ear can withstand this for a few minutes without taking damage. Some people are more vulnerable indeed, but are you? The "compromised ears" theory claiming that all T sufferers are more likely to get inner ear damage is backed by zero scientific evidence.

Plus bear in mind that the combination of noise and worriness multiplies the risk of an aggravation.

 

[Alue]

How many seconds were you exposed to 115 dB? The average human ear can withstand this for a few minutes without taking damage. Some people are more vulnerable indeed, but are you?

Yes, I developed a permanent new tone last year from something that should be safe for the average human ear.

The "compromised ears" theory claiming that all T sufferers are more likely to get inner ear damage is backed by zero scientific evidence.

There's probably a good reason for that. It would be difficult and probably unethical to get a group of tinnitus/hyperacusis sufferers to agree to be subjected to potentially damaging noise levels to conduct a clinical research trial. The research for noise damage for the general population is woefully outdated as it is.

 

[Deamon22]

The "compromised ears" theory claiming that all T sufferers are more likely to get inner ear damage is backed by zero scientific evidence.

Plus bear in mind that the combination of noise and worriness multiplies the risk of an aggravation.

https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...will-i-become-stupid.27825/page-3#post-322983

If you look at @attheedgeofscience post, you see evidence. Repeated noise trauma to already damaged ears.

@Alue The above was just in response to Juliens statement, i did not want to imply that yours was an actual noise trauma. I hope you recover fast buddy.

 

[Bill Bauer]

The "compromised ears" theory claiming that all T sufferers are more likely to get inner ear damage is backed by zero scientific evidence.

First of all, the theory that parachutes can save people who are falling from a great height has never been scientifically tested - there have never been any double blind experiments. Does this mean that we should stop believing our common sense and our lying eyes and not equip military test pilots with parachutes?

Second of all, the hypothesis you are talking about is that for SOME T sufferers it takes less exposure to get T to increase (note, we are not talking about the damage to the inner ear) than the exposure required for the healthy people to get damage to the inner ear. There is a lot of empirical evidence to support this hypothesis, see the first post on
https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/learn-from-others-mistakes.29437/
for multiple stories of people getting very serious T spikes after being exposed to noises that the healthy people won't even notice.

You might argue that we don't know what had caused those spikes (perhaps it was due to some ototoxic medication, or due to sudden hearing loss). But if you think about it, the sufferer has the most information about their situation, so in the absence of better data, our best bet (to find out what was the cause) is to listen to the sufferer (who says it was due to that exposure that the healthy people won't even notice).

When you break your arm, it hurts (giving you a signal to stop doing what you are doing) after activities that are ok for a healthy person to do. Why should it be any different for ears?!

Finally, when you say "there is no scientific evidence", keep in mind that this is the case not because studies were performed and they didn't find any evidence, it is because no studies had been performed. Using your logic, there is no scientific evidence that ears of T sufferers have Not been compromised and are Not more vulnerable to loud sounds than the ears of healthy people.

 

[Red]

I thought that always carrying Peltor muffs with me was enough. I carry them in a cloth bag, together with some other things. Now I see that it makes sense to always ensure that the muffs are at the top, so that in an emergency one doesn't need to look for them among the other things in the bag...

I always have mine within arm's reach (exception is while working but I carry earplugs instead in that case). At home, the earmuffs are on the couch next to me or next to my pillow while I sleep. While not at home they are either in a tote where they can be slipped out without undoing anything or hanging around my wrist.


...Which reminds me, I need to buy new earmuffs. I lost mine at work.

 

[Julien87]

First of all, the theory that parachutes can save people who are falling from a great height has never been scientifically tested - there have never been any double blind experiments. Does this mean that we should stop believing our common sense and our lying eyes and not equip military test pilots with parachutes?

Sorry but I find this comparison absurd. You can easily explain why a parachute will save the life of a falling human. The reasons are obvious. Thus you don't really need to test that. But can you explain me why a T sufferer's ears are more likely to be damaged?

And I'm not talking about trials Alue. There is not even a scientific explanation that would validate this theory.

the hypothesis you are talking about is that for SOME T sufferers

This is precisely NOT the one I told about. Some messages here and there imply that ALL T sufferers' ears are compromised. That's not the case. And that was the point of my initial message.

Yes, I developed a permanent new tone last year from something that should be safe for the average human ear.

Ok, sorry to hear that. I hope this one won't change anything for you.

My message is off topic then. We can resume this conversation another time, if you want, Bill.

 

[Bill Bauer]

There is not even a scientific explanation that would validate this theory.

You are I are not biologists, so no wonder we can't think of anything. Even if biologists can't think of anything, it doesn't mean we should be ignoring all of that empirical evidence.

Some messages here and there imply that ALL T sufferers' ears are compromised.

Again, going by empirical evidence, the above is self-evidently not true. Plenty of people had pointed out that they have been acting as if they are healthy, and they haven't gotten any spikes. It doesn't mean that it can't catch up to them eventually, but just like most smokers never experience any health problems as a result of smoking, a considerable (I have no idea how large it is, it is even possible that it is the "vast majority") fraction of T sufferers can act as if their ears haven't been compromised. In any case, I know I never implied that Everyone has compromised ears. I might have implied that given how horrible T is, it makes sense to assume that you are part of that group whose ears have been compromised, and to not take any risks.

And that was the point of my initial message.

Looks like we are in agreement (as I agree that it is not the case that everyone's ears have been compromised).

We can resume this conversation another time, if you want, Bill.

I just saw this part of your message, after typing all of the above. I don't want to delete my entire message, so this is why I am posting it.

 

[Red]

same boat my friend, massive spike from a 95db slamming door and 11 days and no sign of improvement I have no idea what to do either.

I will never write a success story because it only good till the next spike

Stop using a db meter is a good start. A balloon can apparently spike up to 160db. That doesn't mean it's as dangerous as a jet engine.

 

[Bill Bauer]

A balloon can apparently spike up to 160db. That doesn't mean it's as dangerous as a jet engine.

It is still pretty dangerous.

A popped balloon made it worse (permanently).

Luckily we have dB meters, otherwise we might have thought that those balloons popping were safe.

 

[hans799]

Stop using a db meter is a good start. A balloon can apparently spike up to 160db. That doesn't mean it's as dangerous as a jet engine.

To the contrary. There's a member here whose life was fucked up after a balloon popped near him causing a permanent spike.

And decibel meters are cold, hard, objective tools that you can use to gauge how dangerous your environment is instead of relying on hunches and feelings. A restaurant background noise level of 80dB and 90dB might both be perceived as "wow, this is pretty loud", but one is mostly harmless, while the other can trash your hearing even if it was healthy to start with. ONLY the decibel meter can tell you which one you're being exposed to. I carry one myself (a real one, not a lackluster phone app) and recommend that everyone else does who is serious about not worsening their T.

I know this thread serves no purpose but I'm back to worrying about my ears and I don't know what else to do.

I feel for you. My deepest sympathies. I went through this shit just last week. I ended up fine and I pray that you will, too.

 

[Red]

To the contrary. There's a member here whose life was fucked up after a balloon popped near him causing a permanent spike.

I didn't say a balloon wasn't dangerous. I chose, and always do when I post, to pick each word carefully and wisely. 160db from a balloon is not the same as 160db from a jet engine. Otherwise, [insert dumb kid here] has a ruptured eardrum, moderate hearing loss, and tinnitus, before his first birthday party is over.

My point is that if you go around measuring ordinary household items and the noises they make, you'll see they have high peaks, surprisingly so. But people aren't worried about plates clattering together. (Minus hyperacusis)

So then, to lead in to what you say next here...

And decibel meters are cold, hard, objective tools that you can use to gauge how dangerous your environment is instead of relying on hunches and feelings. A restaurant background noise level of 80dB and 90dB might both be perceived as "wow, this is pretty loud", but one is mostly harmless, while the other can trash your hearing even if it was healthy to start with. ONLY the decibel meter can tell you which one you're being exposed to. I carry one myself (a real one, not a lackluster phone app) and recommend that everyone else does who is ser

The difference between this and with Eric's post, which I was replying to, is that you can control the situation. In that case, yes, I agree a db meter would be useful. But you do not have any control over a person slamming a door nearby you. You can't choose not to hear it in the same way you can measure a restaurant and walk out. It may be a cold, logical, objective device but, objectively speaking, anxiety makes tinnitus worse which is what one is doing when they obsess over random noises that happen everyday that are out of their control.

I'm surprised the door slam wasn't louder than 95 actually.

 

[Vicki14]

Maybe it's premature saying I'm back to square one. I won't know until some time has passed, but the waiting sucks.

Hey @Alue Im so sorry to hear of your recent noise trauma. Doesn't these incidents truly plunge you to the depths of sheer despair, feeling like we walk around on eggshells. It's terrify and exhausting.

I too am going through a nasty spike... 13 days now after being caught out under a school bell which was v loud. I'm now off work as a result and extremely anxious about going back (I work in a school). I get so frustrated that this condition dictates EVERYTHING we do and how utterly miserable these incidents make us. Beholding to the shittiest condition!!! I wish I could knock it out, it's cruelty enrages me!!!

I hope to god our spikes settle soon.... until then... TRY & not to catastrophise & overthink it (like I do)!

 

[Alue]

I thought that always carrying Peltor muffs with me was enough. I carry them in a cloth bag, together with some other things. Now I see that it makes sense to always ensure that the muffs are at the top, so that in an emergency one doesn't need to look for them among the other things in the bag...

I had actually pulled out my Bose NC headphones, then realize this wasn't enough protection and put my earmuffs on instead. It was a weird situation because the guy who was messing around with the alarm system was in the same lab as us and realized we were in the middle of a job that was delicate and time sensitive and he ran over telling us we didn't have to leave. Not long after I put my earmuffs on I decided to just leave the building. This is while I was watching people running out the building holding their hands over their ears. This alarm was excessively loud.

Hey @Alue Im so sorry to hear of your recent noise trauma. Doesn't these incidents truly plunge you to the depths of sheer despair, feeling like we walk around on eggshells. It's terrify and exhausting.

I too am going through a nasty spike... 13 days now after being caught out under a school bell which was v loud. I'm now off work as a result and extremely anxious about going back (I work in a school). I get so frustrated that this condition dictates EVERYTHING we do and how utterly miserable these incidents make us. Beholding to the shittiest condition!!! I wish I could knock it out, it's cruelty enrages me!!!

I hope to god our spikes settle soon.... until then... TRY & not to catastrophise & overthink it (like I do)!

You were able to get off work because of the spike? Unfortunately I'm on work travel, not only can I not get off, but I can see the way I react to the sound can be damaging to relationships with coworkers and customers. Some people are understanding, but some simply don't get it. I hear things like "yeah, fire alarms are annoying, but they are designed to be that way". It goes a little beyond "annoying" for me, but some people just don't understand it.

 

[Gman]

I had actually pulled out my Bose NC headphones, then realize this wasn't enough protection and put my earmuffs on instead. It was a weird situation because the guy who was messing around with the alarm system was in the same lab as us and realized we were in the middle of a job that was delicate and time sensitive and he ran over telling us we didn't have to leave. Not long after I put my earmuffs on I decided to just leave the building. This is while I was watching people running out the building holding their hands over their ears. This alarm was excessively loud.



You were able to get off work because of the spike? Unfortunately I'm on work travel, not only can I not get off, but I can see the way I react to the sound can be damaging to relationships with coworkers and customers. Some people are understanding, but some simply don't get it. I hear things like "yeah, fire alarms are annoying, but they are designed to be that way". It goes a little beyond "annoying" for me, but some people just don't understand it.

I understand. That's why I'm in the process of restructuring my work and life. Nearly there. Had enough of others being inconsiderate. But there will always be unforeseen situations.
You on the anti oxs, mag, NR etc?

Hope you feel better soon.

 

[Alue]

I was just reading most fire alarms are around 85 dB. How the hell is 115dB acceptable? That's 115dB that I measured approximately 10 feet away from the alarm, not right in front of it. It was probably set to the maximum 120dB rating. I don't see how it's acceptable to put those in areas where people aren't encouraged to wear hearing protection (like industrial facilities).

In the UK fire alarms are required to be 5dBA over the ambient noise level of the room and in the US it's 15dBA above the ambient noise level of a room, but if the ambient noise level of a workplace was over 85dB then the employees would be wearing hearing protection anyway. 115-120dB just seems excessive and dangerous to me especially in a place that doesn't typically get above 65dB. I don't know if it's just my hyperacusis making me biased, but this fire alarm seem louder than most.

 

[Bill Bauer]

How the hell is 115dB acceptable?

At my place of work, fire alarm units are installed in narrow corridors. To get to an exit, one has to pass by one of those units. Unless one ducks, one's head will be 1 or 2 feet from the unit. I am told that those alarms are mind-numbinly loud...

 

[Red]

85db? Yeah, my fire alarm is nowhere near that. That is not loud at all. 85db is the sound of street traffic. We're talking the sound of a vacuum cleaner. I don't trust the db measurements from various websites nor do I trust the db measurements TT members post.

There is no way most fire alarms are 85.

 

[Alue]

At my place of work, fire alarm units are installed in narrow corridors. To get to an exit, one has to pass by one of those units. Unless one ducks, one's head will be 1 or 2 feet from the unit. I am told that those alarms are mind-numbinly loud...

The ignorance of noise damage and dangerous decibel levels really pisses me off. I get that fire alarms need to be loud enough that everyone can hear over the ambient noise level, and it's better to do a little damage than die in a fire, but there has to be some middle ground and in a non-emergency maybe it would be better to use a slightly lower volume.
It's like we have this attitude that louder is always better.

85db? Yeah, my fire alarm is nowhere near that. That is not loud at all. 85db is the sound of street traffic. We're talking the sound of a vacuum cleaner.

There is no way most fire alarms are 85.

I was just going by this
https://www.access-board.gov/guidel...fpa-72-national-fire-alarm-code-2007-standard

Maybe a lot of places get the loudest ones possible installed because why not? If an office environment is 65db or less, then per code an 85db alarm would be acceptable.

You could be right, that most are well over the 100db range. 85db doesn't even seem that loud and distance from the alarm plays a huge roll.

I don't trust the db measurements from various websites nor do I trust the db measurements TT members post.

Once I put my earmuffs on I did take a quick measurement with the handheld dB meter that I had in my pocket. To anybody that's wondering why I had a decibel meter on me, I typically take one with me when I'm visiting a new laboratory that I haven't been to before because the ambient noise level can vary a lot in different locations.

 

[New Guy]

I developed a permanent new tone last year from something that should be safe for the average human ear.

I'm sorry that happened @Alue . I also don't believe scientific studies when it comes to t. I believe what my body tells me. I hope the new tone that developed eventually goes away.

 

[Alue]

I'm sorry that happened @Alue . I also don't believe scientific studies when it comes to t. I believe what my body tells me. I hope the new tone that developed eventually goes away.

That new tone was over a year ago (October 2017). I don't think it's going away. I'm just hoping I don't develop something new from this fire alarm...

Edit: to be fair the new tone did fade some. It's in the background when my T is having a good day, but it ramps up when I'm having a bad T day (like today).

Last time I was in a sound booth I think I identified like 4 or 5 tones, but the ones I can only hear in a very quiet room or with earplugs in I don't bother counting. Some are in different locations (head/ears) and some are like broadband tones and not a single frequency. So weird because for the first 2 years I only had one loud tone.

 

[New Guy]

@Alue

That's some messed up stuff. t makes no sense, I don't think there's any point in trying to make sense of it. Perhaps it has something to do with the brain trying to rewire itself to find a solution, perhaps the brain isn't linear either and that's what we're missing. Why do I occasionally have memories of things that happened 20 years ago like it was yesterday?

 

[3ri0w]

Oh fuck man!!

I remember writing with you like just last week and being glad that you are doing OK these days tinnitus-wise since you suffered so much like 2 years ago etc... dangggg

I have the same story as you have.. like got better, then a bad setback (December 1 2018)...
other setback thread https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...orsening-symptoms-—-please-reassure-me.32674/

we 3 together now... gots to learn to get back "there" together, i mean not to suffer. to get out of the setback