What If's....

[kmohoruk]

Hello everyone, I haven't really been on here much as i've been doing the ol'TRT thing again to try and help with my H and T (so far so good). However, I just wanted to pop on here and have a little rant session - as well as try a little bit of therapy that I usually do on my own. I was recommended by one of the therapists that I saw in my hometown to write down any "What ifs...." in a notepad to help get them off my chest - especially if they really start to eat at me.

I am about to start work again, and while I am really excited to feel like a normal person again - I'm also a bit nervous. So instead of doing what I usually do on my own, I would just like to share these in a space that's safe for people with lovely issues ear issues like ourselves.

I guess here are the couple that are kicking around my head right now....

- What if I'm not able to continue working again
- What if my sounds tolerances don't get better fast enough for my girl friend
- What if my T or H gets worse and it continues to evolve into something worse
- What if I'm not able to work out in a gym again
- What if I turn out to not be a great candidate for sound therapy - then what?
- What if I become a burden to my family

Anyways, I'm not really sure what can come out of this haha. I just had to get this off my chest.....and I already feel a bit better I hope that once I start work again - and being around new people, that this will hopefully help with this little bit of uneasiness and it'll drift away....

Thank you everyone.

 

[MattK]

- What if I'm not able to continue working again
- What if my sounds tolerances don't get better fast enough for my girl friend
- What if my T or H gets worse and it continues to evolve into something worse
- What if I'm not able to work out in a gym again
- What if I turn out to not be a great candidate for sound therapy - then what?
- What if I become a burden to my family

- What if it turns out you do just fine at work?
- What if your girlfriend thinks you're getting better even faster than she thought you would?
- What if your T or H get better or evolve into a milder form?
- What if you're able to work out in a gym again and find that it takes your mind off of your T and H?
- What if you're the perfect candidate for sound therapy?
- What if you're not giving your family enough credit?

"What if" thinking is usually done in a way to bring about catastrophic thinking, but it can be reversed!

 

[Dr. Nagler]

"What if" thinking is usually done in a way to bring about catastrophic thinking, but it can be reversed!

Hey Matt. If you ever get fired from your day job, you oughta think seriously about becoming a cognitive behavioral therapist! What a really fine post!

 

[MattK]

Hey Matt. If you ever get fired from your day job, you oughta think seriously about becoming a cognitive behavioral therapist! What a really fine post!

Thanks... I'd love to take credit, but I have an awesome therapist who used this exact tactic on me. And I'm sharing what I've learned to hopefully help others.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Thanks... I'd love to take credit, but I have an awesome therapist who used this exact tactic on me. And I'm sharing what I've learned to hopefully help others.

Well, I hope they listen to you instead of just paying you lip service. Because you are 100% spot on in your analysis!

 

[tinnitussufferer]

- What if it turns out you do just fine at work?
- What if your girlfriend thinks you're getting better even faster than she thought you would?
- What if your T or H get better or evolve into a milder form?
- What if you're able to work out in a gym again and find that it takes your mind off of your T and H?
- What if you're the perfect candidate for sound therapy?
- What if you're not giving your family enough credit?

"What if" thinking is usually done in a way to bring about catastrophic thinking, but it can be reversed!

it can be reversed but whats the point? Theres nothing to worry about if you reverse it

 

[Dr. Nagler]

it can be reversed but whats the point? Theres nothing to worry about if you reverse it

Right. But if you go back to the first post in this thread, you will see that @kmohoruk was worrying about things that might well never happen. Indeed, precisely the opposite might happen. So in a real sense knohoruk's primary problem in this thread is not his tinnitus, but rather it is his worrying about his tinnitus. Which @MattK is diplomatically and insightfully pointing out makes absolutely no sense at all.

That is the point. And it is a very good one indeed.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

well we worry about the bad things which might happen and if we realise there is nothing that we can do, it becomes a worry. Nobody worries about the good outcomes. Thats the problem with CBT. It never addresses the worries themselves or offers any solution. It just encourages you to either hope for the best, or even if something bad actually happens, like tinnitus for example, to just ignore it.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

[CBT] just encourages you to either hope for the best, or even if something bad actually happens, like tinnitus for example, to just ignore it.

That is absolutely not what CBT is all about.

I have written on a number of occasions that the keys to overcoming tinnitus are:
1) Strategy
2) Determination
3) Flexibility
4) Insight

I so want you to overcome your tinnitus like so many others have overcome theirs. But it seems to me that for you #4 is a huge stumbling block. If you would like to discuss it over the phone sometime, I would be happy to do so. But in my opinion going back and forth about it on the board is likely not going to be helpful at this point in time.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

I already did overcome it and i already did habituate. i did it without paying thousands of bucks for TRT. But what i have come to realise is that even though i have overcome it, i still find it annoying and irritating especially when i want peace and quiet.

What would you be able to tell me on the phone that would help me to gain more relief than i already have?

In a nutshell, TRT is at best, a partial solution. if you are a perfectionist like I am, then TRT simply wont do the trick. thats what it comes down to.

 

[Ken219]

@tinnitussufferer you were offer a hand(help) instead you chose to put your own foot in your mouth. Try some appreciation for a change. Like thank you.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

tinnitussufferer you were offer a hand(help) instead you chose to put your own foot in your mouth. Try some appreciation for a change. Like thank you.

It's amazing when you think about it. Here we are taking about @MattK's insightful views on CBT, which can often be self-administered at no cost whatsoever - and @tinnitussufferer goes off on the expense of TRT.

I need a drink!

 

[tinnitussufferer]

@tinnitussufferer you were offer a hand(help) instead you chose to put your own foot in your mouth. Try some appreciation for a change. Like thank you.

wait a minute when did i put my foot in my mouth? i asked the good doctor an honest question and he has not replied. Im happy to talk to him on the phone or fly over to atlanta if the offer is still open but it comes to the question of how i can benefit from it?

 

[Beth]

wait a minute when did i put my foot in my mouth? i asked the good doctor an honest question and he has not replied. Im happy to talk to him on the phone or fly over to atlanta if the offer is still open but it comes to the question of how i can benefit from it?

How can you benefit from it??!!!!! Read Dr Nagler's site where he explains exactly how bad his tinnitus was (is) and more to the point, how bad his reaction WAS. Then read his more recent posts where he says that his tinnitus HAS NOT CHANGED at all but because he has learned (by doing TRT) not to react, his tinnitus does not bother him at all. If you got to the stage where he is (and fortunately after years of suffering I'm there too) and your tinnitus did not bother you at all to the point where most of the time you did not hear it, would you not say that that was a benefit? If you're just living your life being attached to nothing less than an absolute 'cure' so you're back to silence then you're going to be miserable for a long time. I hope you get there one way or another then you can join the ranks of the 'life is actually better than before' people and stick around to help those still suffering.

 

[Ken219]

How can you benefit from it??!!!!! Read Dr Nagler's site where he explains exactly how bad his tinnitus was (is) and more to the point, how bad his reaction WAS. Then read his more recent posts where he says that his tinnitus HAS NOT CHANGED at all but because he has learned (by doing TRT) not to react, his tinnitus does not bother him at all. If you got to the stage where he is (and fortunately after years of suffering I'm there too) and your tinnitus did not bother you at all to the point where most of the time you did not hear it, would you not say that that was a benefit? If you're just living your life being attached to nothing less than an absolute 'cure' so you're back to silence then you're going to be miserable for a long time. I hope you get there one way or another then you can join the ranks of the 'life is actually better than before' people and stick around to help those still suffering.

A man of knowledge and experience offers you his hand and you want to know 'How can you benefit from it'. I guess you will not know unless.....

 

[Dr. Nagler]

i asked the good doctor an honest question and he has not replied. Im happy to talk to him on the phone or fly over to atlanta if the offer is still open but it comes to the question of how i can benefit from it?

I am happy to talk to you over the phone. I talk to tinnitus sufferers over the phone all the time. But as far as your flying to Atlanta, I do not believe I made an offer to actually treat you. May I ask what offer you are talking about when you say "if the offer is still open?"

 

[tinnitussufferer]

well recently you will remember that somebody mentioned you had offered to fly to canada or something like that. The person refused your offer. So i thought, if you have offered a stranger such a generous offer, to fly him to you or for you to fly to him, then perhaps it would apply to anybody else?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

well recently you will remember that somebody mentioned you had offered to fly to canada or something like that. The person refused your offer. So i thought, if you have offered a stranger such a generous offer, to fly him to you or for you to fly to him, then perhaps it would apply to anybody else?

That is one heck of an assumption, my friend. I am happy to speak with you on the phone, but at this point in time that is as far as it goes.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

skype is free for both of us. are you on there?

how did you get tinitus anyway ?

 

[Dr. Nagler]

skype is free for both of us. are you on there?

My offer is to speak with you over the phone. If you wish to do so, kindly contact me off the board.

how did you get tinitus anyway ?

What does that have to do with anything? It's not like this sort of thing can be undone for either of us. Tinnitus is the great equalizer in that regard.

So if you would like to talk about your situation over the phone, I am happy to do it. Contact me off the board. If not, I'm fine with that too. But what I absolutely refuse to do is inflict my offer upon you. So take it or leave it. But either way, I am sure that the fine folks here have better things to do with their time than to attend this jousting match.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

how the hell is it a jousting match? i never argued with you did I?

 

[LadyDi]

@tinnitussufferer: This discussion involves CBT. Not TRT.

Also, as @Dr. Nagler said, CBT is not about "encouraging you to hope for the best" or ignoring tinnitus. It is about completely restructuring your thinking. And I found it helpful for more than just tinnitus. Every cent I spent on CBT was worth it, at least for me.

To get back to the original topic: @kmohoruk, I think its pretty normal to feel nervous and worry that the worst will happen when you start work again. @MattK's statements give you a great start for redirecting your thinking. If you can't afford or aren't able to do CBT, there are audio guides and/or books that might help you. Good luck! just speaking up and acknowledging your worries is a big first step.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

how the hell is it a jousting match? i never argued with you did I?

Deal's off. Don't bother trying to contact me. The key here is insight.

I truly wish you well. Really I do. But I have absolutely no desire to be even a small part of your solution. I did, but not any more. That train has left the station.

You might feel that this post is not particularly supportive. But if it in some way serves to get you off your aspic and actually do something, then it will be the most supportive post you have ever read.

 

[tinnitussufferer]

I truly wish you well. But I have absolutely no desire to be even a part of your solution. That train has left the station.

thats what you said to every other person on here who you argued with.
One minute you offer help, next minute you withdraw it.

and who goes to opera anyway if you have screeching tinnitus? When I asked you whether anything caused the recent exacerbation of your tinnitus, you tell me nothing springs to mind. Its hardly surprising if youve not been taking care to avoid places like that.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

thats what you said to every other person on here who you argued with.
One minute you offer help, next minute you withdraw it.

On the one hand you post "how the hell is it a jousting match? i never argued with you did I?"

And on the other hand you fully admit that there has been an argument.

I do not offer my time and experience one-on-one over the phone to everybody. I offer it to those I feel are truly in need. And I offered it to you. But you have spit in my face for the last time.

This is a support board. I want no part of any more arguments.

I wish you well.

 

[PLips]

Dear All,
I am fairly new to tinnitus which I suffered after a traumatic brain injury. It does bother me in that it affects my ability to work (as a doctor) but I am able to continue doing this which I am so grateful for. After what happened I'm lucky to be alive and not in a nursing home.
If tinnitus is something I have to live with for the rest of my life then so be it and I could have been much worse off.

It is clear that there are many many people out there who really suffer from this and whilst not being an expert in this it appears that it is how you cope with tinnitus which is extremely important rather than trying to cure it. It seems that worrying about it only serves to exacerbate it further.

This thread is an example of the importance of your attitudes towards this illness and probably all illnesses. There are many things we cannot cure and it's learning to cope with them which becomes the most important thing. Chronic back pain is an example.

It is disturbing but after practicing medicine for 25yrs not surprising that an offer to help by Dr Nagler receives such a hostile response. He is clearly an expert in the field and how often do you receive an offer for free phone advise from a health practitioner.

In less than a day he responded to my question with practical advice! It appears you can't respond in that section so here goes.

Dr Nagler, thankyou for your incredibly quick response to my question. I and I'm sure a multitude of people appreciate your time, effort and your obvious dedication to improving the lives of others who have this disorder.

 

[Dr. Nagler]

Dr Nagler, thankyou for your incredibly quick response to my question.

You are most welcome, Dr. Andre. Glad to help.

 

[Kathi]

it doesnt attempt to solve anything though. all the problems remain.

I deleted my post because I decided that I don't want to post on this thread. Too much negativity lately...

CBT solved my problem and helped me a great deal. Sorry if it didn't work for you.

 

[kmohoruk]

- What if it turns out you do just fine at work?
- What if your girlfriend thinks you're getting better even faster than she thought you would?
- What if your T or H get better or evolve into a milder form?
- What if you're able to work out in a gym again and find that it takes your mind off of your T and H?
- What if you're the perfect candidate for sound therapy?
- What if you're not giving your family enough credit?

"What if" thinking is usually done in a way to bring about catastrophic thinking, but it can be reversed!

WHOAAAAAAAA, you just blew my mind @MattK ! I agree with you @Dr. Nagler , I think he should look into becoming a CBT. I'll remember this trick if I'm ever having a bit of a bad day and start catastrophizing again!

Well I'll just pass along that I had my first day back at work after taking a year off and it went really well! It feels good to take this step back into the living again and finally earn a pay cheque. I am very lucky as I have very supportive employers! I'm aiming at working this job through out the summer and then back to school for me to finally finish up my diploma!

 

[LadyDi]

Totally awesome, @kmohoruk. Thanks for letting us know and keep us posted. This is the first chapter of your success story.