Why Can't Audiometers Produce the Whole Hearing Frequency Range/Tones?

Discussion in 'Support' started by Eric N, Dec 24, 2019.

    1. Eric N

      Eric N Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Montreal QC Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2012, 03/2016, 05/2017, 05/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise + 3 major increases via (shouting / MRI/ flu+Tylenol)
      It seems silly that a little machine that is specifically designed to produce tones cannot produce specific tones. Frequencies on a standard audiogram are just a fraction of what we can hear. By using an online tone generator I feel I have hearing loss at 1100 Hz and I also have horrible tinnitus at that frequency, but I have no way of confirming it except by comparing the left ear to the right ear. I have normal hearing at 1000 Hz so it seems a 100 Hz+- range is enough to be missed on a hearing test.

      Also is there anything medically special about the tones they use in an audiogram? e.g. 250 Hz, 500 Hz, 1000 Hz, 2000 Hz etc...
       
      • Good Question Good Question x 1
    2. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      How did you figure that out about the loss? Does 1100Hz somehow go silent or get obscured during a frequency sweep?
       
    3. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      If an audiologist calibrated for every 100 Hz and did an extended up to 16000 Hz they'd make a killing helping people figure out their tinnitus better.

      I think there will be a need for this as regeneration becomes a reality.
       
    4. HootOwl

      HootOwl Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Advocate

      Location:
      California
      Tinnitus Since:
      2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Explanation in About You
      I agree. I have several random notches where some of my worst reactive tinnitus is. There’s obviously an input issue going on that can’t be fully represented by a normal audiogram. Wouldn’t have known without a sweep test.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    5. MidnightOilAudio
      Ape-like

      MidnightOilAudio Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      I don't know why the machines dont offer a full spectrum sweep. Most headphones are capable of producing a fairly flat 20hz-20kHz test.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    6. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      That will take some time!
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    7. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      I think frequencies would have to be closer together than 100Hz in the lower frequencies and not as close in the upper because of the way we hear. In every octave the frequency doubles, so 100 Hz would span more than an octave in the lower register and less than a semitone in the uppers.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    8. Bartoli

      Bartoli Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2009,worsened 2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      How noticeable would a notched loss be during a sweep? Would you have to put it really quiet and then look for when it becomes quieter or even disappears entirely?
       
    9. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      Errrr... we wish! :)

      That is actually a real challenge for those tests: ear buds will allow closer positioning to the ear drum but won't offer a great frequency response due to the limited size available to pack various speakers, and headphones have the opposite trait, as they have more space/flexibility to work on frequency response, but they can't get too close to the ear drum and thus suffer from leakage & reflections.

      What they could do though is to calibrate their test bench to the headphones, but that would require some software work to derive the appropriate sound level based on the response curve of the headphones used for the test. I don't know if their equipment lets them do that.

      For reference, here are some typical frequency response curves. Note how "not flat" the upper ranges (above 10 kHz, it's a log scale) are.

      Frequency-Response-headphones.jpg
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    10. Contrast
      No Mood

      Contrast Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Clown World
      Tinnitus Since:
      late 2017
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      noise injury
      Why doesn't the standard audiogram go above 8khz?

      Why doesn't the hearing test verify speech in background noise?
      honkler nose.gif
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
    11. MidnightOilAudio
      Ape-like

      MidnightOilAudio Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2015
      Notice I said most headphones were CAPABLE of delivering a flat freq response. You can use something like SonarWorks or Trinnov that counter the built in curve and achieve much better results (“better” in this case being defined as much closer to flat).
       
    12. alanisnotadj
      Batty

      alanisnotadj Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1992 (got much worse in 2018)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      I have an appointment in Paris at the centre Audition LEFEUVRE. They told me they can do an "acouphénométrie HD" (to 1 / 48th of an octave or to the nearest Hertz) up to 16000 Hz.
      Let's see how it goes.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    13. FGG
      No Mood

      FGG Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multi-factorial
      Please report back!
       
      • Like Like x 1
    14. alanisnotadj
      Batty

      alanisnotadj Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1992 (got much worse in 2018)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      Will do! It's in March.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    15. Nonomat
      Wishful

      Nonomat Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019 (mild) - 11/2019 (intrusive)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Any particular reason you go in France for this? I'm actually very intrigued as I live in Paris.
       
    16. alanisnotadj
      Batty

      alanisnotadj Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1992 (got much worse in 2018)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      Well, I am also French and I really want to know where there are gaps in my hearing. You need to be referred by a French ENT to be allowed to do this particular test. I asked them if a referral from a German ENT would be acceptable but it is not.
       
    17. Nonomat
      Wishful

      Nonomat Member Benefactor

      Location:
      France
      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019 (mild) - 11/2019 (intrusive)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced
      Yeah, should have figured that one out :LOL:

      I see that they are part of COOPACOU, do you have to go through an ENT of their network? So that everyone can know: in France there are actually structures "specialized" in tinnitus or at least better equipped than your average ENT (though they remain not really known). COOPACOU is one of them, the other is AFREPA. Basically they offer a
      pluridisciplinary approach with ENT, audiologist, CBT specialist and sometimes also osteopath.

      If an audiologist affiliated with COOPACOU offers an extended audiogram I might actually be interested also in what an ENT from this network has to say.
       
      • Informative Informative x 1
    18. alanisnotadj
      Batty

      alanisnotadj Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1992 (got much worse in 2018)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      You can be referred by any ENT, he or she does not need to be part of COOPACOU. I am also very curious about the results.
       
    19. GlennS

      GlennS Member Podcast Patron

      Tinnitus Since:
      1992
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music
      With all due respect, please lay off on the constant alt-right imagery. It's off-topic and if it's meant to be humorous, it isn't.
       
    20. alanisnotadj
      Batty

      alanisnotadj Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Germany
      Tinnitus Since:
      1992 (got much worse in 2018)
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud noise exposure
      Well I could not make it to Paris today... actually I did but I had to jump on a train back to Germany 10 minutes after arriving in Paris. Borders will close tomorrow morning and I had no other option than to go back.

      Anyway I will now do my Acouphenometrie HD this summer. I will keep you posted!
       

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