A Question of Religion...

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Karl, Oct 15, 2013.

tinnitus forum
    1. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      Many religions have written about miracles performed by prophets. In the old days, religious prophets could cure major illnesses. "Zap!" and people who were blind regained their sight. Miracles and stuff like that.

      But did any of these prophets cure tinnitus? Was tinnitus even around 2000 years ago? There were no rock bands and people didn't wear head phones. There were no amplifiers and speakers. How could people even damage their hearing back then? Were there ototoxic substances? Did tinnitus even exist in Biblical days?

      Question: Can religion and prayer cure tinnitus?
       
    2. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who Knows
      Hmmm good question Karl. I am sure there was some loud noise within the stone mason workers, musicians back then. Makes me wonder what the is the first recorded case of tinnitus.

      Perhaps tinnitus goes back even further, saw on TV in ancient Egypt that skulls were found with surgical holes in them, to release the noise inside the head?
       
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    3. Erlend
      Question it

      Erlend Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Scandinavia
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2013
      Tinnitus has always been around. Darwin had tinnitus. And one of the french philosophers.


      I've been thinking about a religion thread on these forums and concluded that there is no purpose.

      I know I can't be religious, which makes T even more meaningless and tragic.

      But if you ARE religious, there is no point in debating it here where we all obviously have a shitty problem.

      But no, religion can't heal anything, and if it does, it's placebo.


      If you're somehow able to believe in a god, I don't want you to lose your faith if you have tinnitus. Because I think that faith might help. I wish I could believe. I didn't wish for that before this though, never had a need. But now.. hehe
       
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    4. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who Knows
      Hi Erlend, I find your comments most interesting. Has the content of you reply always been your credo?
       
    5. christine kauhane
      Sunshine

      christine kauhane Member

      Location:
      honolulu hawaii
      Tinnitus Since:
      june 9th 2013
      i am a Christian and have always had had faith in things and people i would pray for, when T came into my life 3 months ago, It was very hard to keep the faith every morning i would wake up and that sound still there? I prayed and prayed and still do that God will remove this T from everyone! and it' very easy to have dought when you are are always hearing this ringing , but i was told that faith is something not seen but yet you believe that it will be removed? 100% faith ! My religion still stands today i continue to pray for us all that we will be heald, But we all need to be in agreement.... Hope i have not said any thing wrong but thats just what i think and continue to believe in.. mahalo..........
       
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    6. Sherri786
      Dreaming

      Sherri786 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2013
      Watch videos on YouTube about the Power of mind by Dr. Brian Weiss, Dr. Wayne Dyer, Dr. Bruce Lipton,and also watch Gregg Braden's " spontaneous healing of Belief " you'll be surprised ;)

      The power of thought and feeling is amazing.
       
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    7. Karen
      Talkative

      Karen Manager Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      First time: Noise 2nd Time: Ototoxic drug
      Tinnitus has been around for many millennia. I'm attaching an interesting article about the history of tinnitus, which notes that the first written account of tinnitus (the Eber Papyrus) dates back to the ancient Egyptians in 2500 BC (see attached link). Back then, people believed tinnitus was caused by the devil, or other evil forces. People tried all sorts of interesting "cures" that may have been worse than the affliction!

      http://www.doctorsreview.com/history/auditory-assault/

      Can prayer or faith heal tinnitus? I don't know, but I believe that faith can be a comfort and an empowering force for healing. I agree with Sherry, that the power of the mind can do amazing things!
       
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    8. Sherri786
      Dreaming

      Sherri786 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2013
      Wow interesting article Karen , thanks for posting !
       
    9. Karen
      Talkative

      Karen Manager Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Ambassador

      Location:
      U.S.
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      First time: Noise 2nd Time: Ototoxic drug
      Thanks! The video is interesting and tantalizing, too!
       
    10. Erlend
      Question it

      Erlend Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Scandinavia
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2013
      I believed in God until I was maybe 11, then I started believing in a deity, but not the Christian god. Then when I did what we call "confirmation" here in Norway when I was 14 I started believing again. Looking back I think it was just that being a Christian was so "not me" that I found it intriguing, to surprise people that knew me, and I genuinely think the Bible has some great stories (I haven't ead much but what I've read I liked).

      But then just a few weeks later I was like.. Nah.. Hehe. To me it seems that all religions are designed to comfort humans. I mean, look at Christianity.

      If you're good (which we want you to be) you go to Heaven! A PERFECT place where you can see all your dead relatives, the people you miss!

      If you're bad, you go to HELL! A place that.. burns. Yeah. Seems designed by humans if you ask me.

      But there's obviously a biological predisposition for belief in humans, so there is a need/function in it. For example, atheists are far more likely to be depressed than believers.
       
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    11. cmurem

      cmurem Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/05/2012
      Some time at nights i had been imagining my inner ears producing new cells. I thought that maybe i can trigger healing mecanism like the birds :) I still think if i should continue that thing. I now understand how people go mad. I wish i was a religious person because they seem to cope better with such these situations.
       
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    12. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      I have to admit that I'm baiting with a question like this. Tinnitus is a real test of faith - for those who rely on faith in their lives.

      I'm not one to resort to prayer. Only in my most desperate moments have I prayed. I usually tackle any problems rationally, determining what I can do and what I can't do.

      But there are a whole lot of people I know who live their lives based on prayer and hope. It's as though they operate in a parallel universe that I don't understand. In the grand scheme of things, has anyone been cured of tinnitus by having hope?

      Is habituation a miraculous cure? Not exactly like magic, but if we can sucessfully habituate so that it doesn't bother us, that's enough of a cure.
       
    13. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      The first thing I did when I was struck by the severity of my T was to pray. Although I'm not a "registered Christian" I did it instinctively. The weeks after I surprised myself by going to church, as a matter of fact I went to several churches. I wanted someone there to pray for me so that I could get healed, not all Christian communities pray with the aim to heal, so I had to look up churches that belonged to charismatic Christians. They prayed for me and asked God to heal me, at one instance they were several people praying as they touched me. We were sitting in front the the crucifix inside the church building, at another occasion the head pastor of the church prayed for me. I had told them about my condition cause I wanted them to pray as specific as possible. In addition to these prayer sessions I visited a non religious healing church, that is something very different from a Christian church, as a matter of fact Christians don't support those type of healers at all because it's not from God as they say.

      Well, the point is that I still have severe T so it did not work. I wasn't healed. I like to try things before I reject and it didn't work for me at least. Some could probably say that I still can get healed from those prayers in the future because God "works in mysterious ways" etc. It could be that he ignited a healing process, but I guess everyone can philosophy like that. I asked god to remove my T&H and I did it the way the bible tells us to pray, I even had to kneel down and confess my sins and ask for forgiveness and the whole nine yards. I was really into it and I cried heavily. It was a very powerful experience, and somewhat humbling as well. The bottom line is that nothing happened in regards to T. I've heard of many people getting released from years of heroin addiction, cancerous illnesses and different stuff by praying. If it's the power of mass suggestion, placebo or some unknown inner force I don't know. It doesn't really matter to me cause all I'm interested in is results. If it works then fine. The reason it works is of very little importance. What upsets me are those indoctrinated Christians that blame people for NOT being healed claiming its because their believe is too weak. Now that is some provocative behavior.
       
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    14. gary
      Transparent

      gary Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Macomb, MI. USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Who Knows
      Erland, Thank you for sharing your thoughts. Your statement above has been discussed in the scientific circles, they refer to "A Got Spot" in the brain, quite interesting reading. Too many links to list.

      Just google The God Spot and many theories will come up.
       
    15. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
      More of a problem than the sound itself is the opinion about it .. .someone here said that the mind mind has a great power, and it is true, it can approve or disapprove of anything or any experience and thereby change the `tone` of the experience. Greater than the mind is no-mind ... when we stop judging the experience and let everything be there comes a peace ... for me tinnitus is the greatest teacher of this because it `apparently` blocks the inner silence that is so often considered to be the source of peace ... but we as a being exist even before that silence ... so silence or no silence should not interfere with the peace ... this comes when we dare to dive in deeply and let go of everything or let everything be ... even the tinnitus ... no judgement no hope ...

      a great master (Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj) once had a man in front of him who said ... `I experience so much suffering` ... the sage replied ... `you are not experiencing suffering ... you are suffering your experience` ... herein lies salvation ...

      Peace x
       
    16. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      Religion has always been somewhat of an issue for me. My mother is from Oklahoma which is very much an evangelist Christian part of America. I was sort of force fed ideas, which I never quite understood. When I was 18, I became independent from my family, politically and religiously.

      If atheists are "more depressed" than others, that's a generalization I don't agree with. We "are who we are", each different in the ways that we think. We should never force our opinions on others. We can discuss things, sometimes even learn things from each other, and even change our minds in the process. In my opinion, "we're all in the same boat" on this planet.

      All people have the same questions about what is the meaning of life - existential questions. For time eternal people have been asking what is life? what happens when we die (and is there another option)? what is time? where did the Universe come from? Nobody has the answer to these questions...but the old book gives answers that some people accept. Beyond those existential questions, religion deals a lot with "power" questions. Humans must deal with other humans, and many people cannot resist their need to dominate. Power and greed are the root of all evil. Loving our fellow man is another important topic.

      I have heard that we are not suppose to pray for things...but I know some people who pray to get rich! So even what is prayer is not so obvious to me.

      The above comments by Per are excellent, reflecting what a lot of people have gone through when they get tinnitus. His comments reveal the complexity of this situation we are in.
       
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    17. Erlend
      Question it

      Erlend Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Scandinavia
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2013
      I didn't mean that every atheist is a little more depressed than every Christian, but statistics are very clear as far as I know that a the % of atheists is higher in depressed people than in the general population.
       
    18. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      I understand completely.

      There is a very good book, "Life the Movie", that gets into this topic. The book is about the entertainment industry and how it's changed our lives, but it also talks about religion - sort of a precursor to today's entertainment industry. Quoting: "Those who exhibited the most robust mental health-...were those who leaned to operate with what ....(is) called 'positive illusions' ".
       
    19. vickilynn
      Bookworm

      vickilynn Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Can't remember
      Just to clarify " if you're good you go to heaven and if you're bad you go to hell" isn't the biblical teaching. No one is good according to God. If I had more time I'd look up the Scriptures for you. There's only one way to heaven and that's through the Lord Jesus Christ and His sacrifice on the cross for our sins. John 3:16, Romans 10:8-10, Acts 4:12.

      Yes, I'm a Christian or Christ follower. Nowadays you have to say what you mean by Christian since it's become generic to mean whatever people want it to.

      Just to clarify. :)
       
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    20. vickilynn
      Bookworm

      vickilynn Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Can't remember
      Oh I'm reading a book right now I'd suggest to any atheist: I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH FAITH TO BE AN ATHEIST by Norm Geisler and Frank Turek. I think I have the names right.
       
    21. Karl

      Karl Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Chicago
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2011
      Once again, I am lost. If I recall correctly, according to Luke, Jesus said, Rule No. 1: Love God, but equally, we must love our fellow man. I think that's about "being good". The Ten Commandments were also, essentially, about "not doing bad".

      I dare say, why is "no one good"? Was Man put on this earth, predestined to feel guilty about our very existence?

      Is unquestioning servitude an ideal to be expected from Man? Can we question ideas like this? Or, is the act of questioning in itself a sin? Why would God give Man the ability to question things?

      Or, are you saying this is about living "a plan", which we have no control over, whether we do good or not?
       
    22. J M

      J M Member

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      I seen God heal many folks in my lifetime, so yes, he can heal.

      Divine healing comes from having a child-like faith. Sometimes, though, it's not easy for us grown folks to accept that kind of faith.
       
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    23. Per

      Per Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2013
      It's not easy
      It's not easy to understand anything about healing cause it doesn't really work 99% of the times. Even priests and life long believers struggle with illnesses after 20 years of hard prayers, so blaming the belief isn't really a valid theory. Many strong believers of God have died young from lethal illnesses, the prayers never cured them. I have tried prayers and visited charismatic Christians myself several times in my desperations, needless to say it didn't work - but I had to try of course. As we all know T drives you to desperation. Putting energy into stuff that doesn't work increases the desperation and depression. Even if you pray like mad and do all the demanded things like admitting you sins, asking for forgiveness etc, chances are extremely slim of any recovery. Let's just be honest about this healing phenomena, it's the most human response to all types of religious healing. That said, I don't think its destructive to have a belief system, its the expectations of healing that drives people even further down the dark road thus making religion a potential health trap, just like any other snake oil remedy.

      Ps: Most Christians actually don't believe in physical healing, you need to visit quite charismatic churches to find anyone supporting miracles and healing by prayers etc. Most Christian believe environments thinks miracles and healing is something Jesus did exclusively, I think they have come to terms with this by observing the lack of proof and results. So although it's in the bible most Christian believe systems have been brave and honest enough to add some healthy skepticism to it all.
       
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    24. vickilynn
      Bookworm

      vickilynn Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      Can't remember
      I believe in divine physical healing. However God doesn't always heal. The apostle Paul requested that he remove a thorn in his flesh and God's answer was "My grace is sufficient for thee." Plus I also believe that healing from going to a doctor still comes from God.
       
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    25. mick

      mick Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      At a recent church sermon I attended during the 2013 World Series the pastor asked this question: How does God deal with the conflicting prayer requests from the opposing teams? Clearly, the Red Sox were praying that they would wind, and the Cardinals were praying that they would win. Perhaps God is a Red Sox fan, or perhaps he ignored both teams requests and let the chips fall as they may. I myself was praying that God would choose to be a Cardinals fan. Maybe prayer is like voting - there are more Red Sox fans in the world than Cardinals fans (for the life of me I don't know why;), but that's what viewing statistics indicate) .
       
    26. mick

      mick Member Benefactor

      Location:
      USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2012
      At a recent church sermon I attended during the 2013 World Series the pastor asked this question: How does God deal with the conflicting prayer requests from the opposing teams? Clearly, the Red Sox were praying that they would wind, and the Cardinals were praying that they would win. Perhaps God is a Red Sox fan, or perhaps he ignored both teams requests and let the chips fall as they may. I myself was praying that God would choose to be a Cardinals fan. Maybe prayer is like voting - there are more Red Sox fans in the world than Cardinals fans (for the life of me I don't know why;), but that's what viewing statistics indicate) .
       
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    27. Danny
      Fine

      Danny Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Near Toronto Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      Sorry to disappoint you...there is no god (s), if there was an exsistence of such being he has a lousy sense of humor with all the garbage going on in our world, how would any god allow such destruction, famine, and collapsing of societies...we blindly go to places of worship to pray, but what do we prayer for? Sorry people no god (s).
      But I do believe that we were visited by aliens, there is proof of that.
       
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    28. Erlend
      Question it

      Erlend Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Scandinavia
      Tinnitus Since:
      05/2013
      What is the proof of (a) visit(s) from aliens?
       
    29. Danny
      Fine

      Danny Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Near Toronto Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      What you don't watch ancient aliens? lol
       
    30. Danny
      Fine

      Danny Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Near Toronto Canada
      Tinnitus Since:
      2012
      sangeetjass.hubpages.com, if that's not enough go get the movie ET that should be proof enuff
       

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