Can Progesterone Cream Make Tinnitus Worse?

Discussion in 'Support' started by DebInAustralia, May 1, 2022.

    1. DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I have very low progesterone as part of moving into perimenopause.

      I am on day 2 of low-dose progesterone cream. The past 2 days have been very bad tinnitus wise.

      I consulted with Dr. Google. Concerned to find that progesterone might inhibit KV ion channels.

      I can't find anything definitive.

      I'm in a panic again.

      I was thinking my tinnitus relapse might be related to perimenopause, so trying the cream was part of trying to recover. However, now I am concerned that I might be adding fuel to my tinnitus.

      Please, if anyone who has experience with this, give me your thoughts. I am very fragile, so please no negative posts.
       
      • Hug Hug x 3
    2. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Anyone???
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    3. tpj
      Depressed

      tpj Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      probably noise
      Hi @DebInAustralia, I used progesterone cream years ago and it had no affect on my tinnitus but it was mild back then. Whether that would be the case now, sorry I couldn't say.
       
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    4. makeyourownluck

      makeyourownluck Member

      Location:
      Scotland
      Tinnitus Since:
      07/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I’m interested in this @DebInAustralia, please keep us updated on your progress if you continue the treatment.

      I’m thinking of starting hormonal birth control. Another member has suggested a low dose combined pill, but I’m still worried.

      Life feels like a game of Russian Roulette.
       
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    5. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Oh Jesus this makes me scared to take my new script of progesterone pills!

      I just came back from the doctor today and I'm in early menopause, confirmed now from my bloodwork. They wanted me to do the BioTE hormone pellets but I don't want anything I can't control and be stuck in me for months. I am supposed to get compounded estradiol/testosterone cream delivered tomorrow, and progesterone pills first to take tonight.

      I thought I'd do a quick search here for progesterone to see what anyone's experience was. I have been taking testosterone cream a year with no issues, but this is new.
       
    6. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I didn't mean to alarm you.

      I may have spiked anyway.

      However, I did read this and articles like this:

      Progesterone Blocks Multiple Routes of Ion Flux

      That suggest progesterone might be capable of inhibiting Kv ion channels.

      I wrote to one of the researchers of a paper I read, and this is the reply I received.

      "We don't know yet if progesterone alters the expression of these potassium channels. Work is in progress and if we find that progesterone indeed alters their expression, I will let you know.

      Progesterone is known to increase GABAergic inhibition. Progesterone metabolite allopregnanolone increases the probability that GABA-A receptors will open upon binding to their ligand which is GABA; you will be easily able to find this literature even with a simple google search."

      Best,
      Suchitra
      With this in mind, I am still tossing up restarting the bio progesterone cream, or approaching it from a Traditional Chinese Medicine angle using herbs and acupuncture. I think what I will do is go back on Vitex until I see the acupuncturist on Monday and see how I get on. It'll take longer to get the progesterone up but it may be less risky than the alternative. Have you tried natural hormonal rebalancing methods?
       
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    7. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Thank you for this info. No, I have not tried natural methods yet. I did take the 200 mg progesterone pill last night and have not noticed a spike today. I will continue tonight again. I receive my compounded cream today and will be adding that in the mix tonight. Please update me on the Vitex and how you do with it.

      I also found this study very interesting. Some of the women had almost complete disappearance of tinnitus.

      Hormone replacement therapy for chronic tinnitus in menopausal women: Our experience with 13 cases
       
    8. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Can I ask how low is your progesterone and whether you've done serum or saliva tests?

      I'm glad you've not spiked from the progesterone pills.

      Are you doing compounded EST and test?

      I opted for progesterone cream thinking it wasn't as scary. I wonder if it would do the job though?

      I'm only on day 2 of 2g Vitex.

      How severe is your tinnitus? I'd be interested in your story.
       
    9. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      I did have a slight spike yesterday but it went away within hours. I am taking a 200 mg progesterone pill at night and starting slow with LDN at .5 mg the past few days which I may try increasing.

      I was scared taking the progesterone pill too as I have always opted for creams for fear the tinnitus would get worse. The estradiol/testosterone is a compounded cream I am applying once a day for now, but it calls for every 12 hours.

      My tinnitus was really severe beginning November 2020. It started with vertigo. It remained bad for a year and then I tried the OTO-313 trial. It was loud in my left ear but kind of moved around in the summer; it felt like a white noise machine in my head and then moved back to the left ear. I could hear it over the grocery store, kids screaming and splashing at the pool with music and sitting with my mom at her crossing guard job with 6 lanes of traffic. It was BAD.

      The volume has decreased a lot in the past 5 months, but I can still hear it clearly watching TV, etc. I still wonder if my tinnitus is somewhat related to hormones as when the tinnitus hit me, I missed my period 2 months November/December. I was always regular and thought the missed periods were from stress from tinnitus, but wonder if it was the other way around? I then started missing every month or two all of 2021 and then completely stopped November 2021 and now my blood tests show I'm in full menopause.
       
    10. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Thanks for your input.

      I absolutely do believe that hormonal shifts can drive brain chemistry.

      I scoured Facebook peri/menopause groups, and was astounded by the numbers of women complaining of new/sudden onset of tinnitus/hearing loss around the time of peri/menopause, along with significant improvements (sometimes completely resolved) in tinnitus.

      I started skipping periods in 2020, and that is around the same time that I experienced 2 significant relapses in that year.

      Dutch hormonal studies in 2020 were suggestive of perimenopause. Not surprising at the age of 55 years.

      Two further relapses in 2021; the second is current and ongoing. Hearing way more head noise.

      I ordered serum hormonal studies myself recently (have no idea where I am in the cycle now), which showed a rising FSH and again, very low progesterone. So, my ovaries are failing = menopause :(

      What are you actually hearing? Is it ear and head noise?

      Did you ever do antivirals in case your vertigo was caused by an underlying infection? I presume you're doing the LDN to rule out autoimmunity? Neuro/cochlear inflammation?

      Other than the tinnitus, are you experiencing other symptoms with your menopause?

      I have terrible insomnia, anxiety, depression, brain fog, memory lapses, focus issues, feel hot in bed every single night, grrrrr!

      So, my plan moving forward is to:
      • Continue with 2g Vitex
      • Add in progesterone cream 34 mg/day
      • Consulted with a TCM practioner - said I have liver heat rising due to a yin deficiency - weekly acupuncture and targeted herbs to remove excess heat etc.
      Let me know how you go with the progesterone. I would love to stay in touch. I think this thread could also help other women going through this.
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    11. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I will give further updates.

      Let me know what you decide. I know the fear.
       
    12. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Yes! I was shocked seeing how many women in peri/menopause have tinnitus! It's kind of appalling that doctors shrug their shoulders and don't consider hormones as a factor.

      I never had tinnitus in my life until November 2020 when the vertigo happened and then the tinnitus developed a week or two later which makes me believe I have some kind of neuro or inflammation on my vestibulocochlear nerve? I researched everything and settled trying the John of Ohio protocol for 6 months (antivirals).

      I am 47 so this is early menopause for me :( I had almost an entire year of crap sleep due to the tinnitus and was finally getting it under control and then the "new" menopause symptoms arrived the past month or so, so I asked my doctor to run a full panel again (last one was 6 months prior and they could not tell much because I also had no idea where in my cycle). My new symptoms started with insomnia again and night sweats multiple times at night and hot flashes randomly in the day. I also noticed my depression and brain fog kicked up again.

      I no longer have head noise. The tinnitus shifted so much in 2021. I started with the tonal EEE super loud and then it changed to cicadas one or two days, then it felt like a white noise machine or static was in my head, sometimes like electrical noises going back and forth if I plugged my ears. Now it's lower volume but goes between a high pitch hissing noise/air leak sometimes with a ring on top. If I wake in the middle of the night, it's more like a ringing. And although it's at a lower volume, I think it has moved a bit to my "good" right ear now. I don't freak out as much anymore at night waking as I leave a tinnitus track running on my phone in the connecting bathroom if I get up at night.

      It would be awesome for us if this was just a hormone issue and if corrected the tinnitus would go away or at least to an unnoticeable level (as I sit here typing and sweating once again lol).
       
    13. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      @LostinTX, just so I am clear - you started the LDN at the same time as the progesterone?

      Glad your tinnitus is lower in volume. What do you think eliminated your head noise?

      I have head noise that sounds like a gas leak. I can't modulate this with facial movements, or with residual inhibition.

      The peripheral noise (ears) hissing - I can modulate to a degree somatically and with certain noises like white noise.

      Does this sound similar to yours?

      I saw an integrative doctor today for a 3rd opinion. Now, I'm totally confused.
      • They feel I'm now menopausal
      • They want me on progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, and DHEA troches
      • They suggested I have MCAS
      • They want me to try L-theanine, PEA and Singulair to stabilise mast cells
      I have read that estrogen dominance promotes histamine excess. Progesterone is required to upregulate DAO (enzyme that breaks down histamine). I am very low in progesterone.

      I assume all of my symptoms are due to my tinnitus relapse, but maybe the brain fog, lack of focus, insomnia, heat etc is part of MCAS.

      I did a gene test in 2021 (StrateGene analysis). It showed that the gene that turns on DAO is slow, as is the gene that clears drugs and interestingly, histamine (NAT2).

      So, maybe there is something in the above.

      I will also add that: as a result of communications with a researcher interested in looking at identifying botanicals for Kv ion channel modulation, I learnt that histamine closes Kv ion channels. Quercetin has been identified as a potent Kv ion channel modulator, as has coriander (cilantro).

      I have been on a very low histamine diet for months (practically not eating) and haven't noticed any benefit.

      In my particular case, my tinnitus became more intrusive around the time I had to cave to antibiotics last year, so wondering if antibiotics and the onset of menopause have re-activated mast cells that has now led to this current shitty situation?
       
      • Hug Hug x 1
    14. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Addendum:

      I have reconsidered my plan of action after discussing the above with my naturopath.

      He feels my relapse is likely related to MCAS secondary to menopause/stress/antibiotics (disruption to microbiome).

      I will continue on 2 g Vitex daily.

      Restarting progesterone cream 34 mg daily. Might grade up to 100 mg if tolerated.

      I am taking dong quai and peony, which will both help modulate estrogen.

      Testosterone and DHEA (as suggested by previous integrative doctor) are not indicated.

      I will continue with traditional Chinese herbs that are aimed at treating liver heat rising with yin deficiency.

      To stabilise mast cells, I will take 600 mg PEA bid, and to bind to excess gut histamine, I will take Toxaprevent (8 capsules a day).

      I will continue to experiment with CBD isolate.

      Adding in LGG Metagenics probiotic (histamine friendly).

      Will consider urea breath test down the track to rule out h. pylori (as I had a positive virulence factor V on a GI-map test last year). If positive, then I will need to address this as well.
       
    15. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Yes, I started progesterone and LDN at the same time (probably not the best idea) but I am so low on LDN, just taking .5ml from what I've diluted.

      I also read the Quercetin being a Kv channel modulator and many people with vaccine induced tinnitus have been taking it. I also tried a cilantro extract last year and it spiked me horribly!

      I really need to do a gene test, was thinking of 23andMe. My dad had some really progressive hearing loss in 2016 and tinnitus (he says his is mild) and I wanted to see if I carry GJB2 gene.

      I really have no idea what made the head noise go, I really think just time and healing. It seemed that the worst I had the white noise machine/static was in the top of my head and was truly scary and loud. I seem to have the hissing or air leak sound from my left ear, but sometimes it can almost feel like it's in the back of my neck. I can turn on that high pitch tinnitus neuromodulation on YouTube and it helps now, it never did prior.

      When you had tinnitus before, did the volume continually go down to where you no longer noticed it? Could you watch TV without hearing it etc? I still have a lot of healing to do. I can go outside or driving sometimes and not hear it, but not always. I still struggle watching TV without it annoying me as well. Wondering if I'm doing well at just entering my 18th month :unsure:
       
    16. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I have heard of people mentioning spikes with LDN too, which is why I have been hesitant to try it.

      I can highly recommend StrateGene - it is the most comprehensive but not budget friendly.

      Each time I get a louder day, I freak out and stop taking my supplements. I'm scared of the progesterone even though it is low dose.

      How are you getting on with the progesterone tablets? No more spikes?

      I definitely think my tinnitus volume fluctuates, and it was easy to ignore. However, i have been using herbs for Lyme that may have impacted on neuroinflammation alongside high doses of Quercetin, so I'm really not sure.

      Last year, I was mostly ok with my tinnitus, as in largely not hearing it, or being bothered by it if I did hear it. I think there was an element of habituation though.

      A stark contrast to what I have now :( I have been like this before however. Back in 2020, I had 2 relapses (as I said, around the time my cycles became irregular).

      Yes, I could watch TV without it interfering too much last year. I could sit in a quiet room for many hours and not be bothered by it at all.

      You're still quite new to tinnitus. I think you are doing really well.

      Let me know how the progesterone is going.
       
    17. ajc

      ajc Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2002; spike 2009; worse 2017-18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud music - noise damage
      StrateGene seems to be discontinued.

      https://strategene.me/

      "The StrateGene® DNA Kit is discontinued"
       
    18. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Any updates?
       
    19. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      I think it is going well. I had a bad night, but not due to the progesterone. HRT has completely stopped my night sweats and hot flashes.

      My daughter bought me some Delta-8 gummies for Mother's Day for sleep. I took one last night and I was super high, ears ringing loudly and skin crawling feeling for several hours. Never touching that stuff again. I am that person with bad reactions to THC.

      Also, I am scheduled to do two stellate ganglion block shots end of month. 2 people I know had results. One woman went for her parosmia and got about 70% taste/smell back but her tinnitus went away! And a guy that flew to Texas reported back his tinnitus reduced by 50% and parosmia by 90%. I read it helps reset the nervous system and they also used it previously for menopause symptoms. There's also been a couple of studies where they used stellate ganglion blocks for tinnitus.

      Stellate Ganglion Block in the Treatment of Meniere's Disease and in the Symptomatic Relief of Tinnitus

      Stellate Ganglion Block for the Relief of Tinnitus in Vibration Disease

      Stellate Ganglion Block as a Treatment for Vasomotor Symptoms: Clinical Application
       
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    20. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I am glad to hear your HRT is helping you. You are doing combination HRT, aren't you?

      I keep waking up hot and feeling sweaty at times. It hasn't improved on 32 mg progesterone cream yet.

      I'm sorry you had such an awful experience with the Delta-8 gummies. Another friend also spiked with the THC. I have tried CBD oil (THC free) recently. I haven't found it helpful at all.

      You are brave trying these interventions. I'm scared I'll make mine worse.

       
    21. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Thank you, Deb! I know you will find the right amount to help your peri/menopause symptoms!

      I haven't had any night sweats or hot flashes since starting the HRT. I really thought it would take a week or two to see any improvement because last year I started only Testosterone cream and it took a good 10-14 days to notice anything. The only downside is that now I'm taking Estradiol/Progesterone my skin has started to get a few pimples again! I haven't had skin breakouts in a year or more eating right from tinnitus etc.

      I am taking CBN/CBD for sleep and it's worked really well.

      I hope that with the SGB that even if it doesn't help tinnitus it helps my increased depression and anxiety from all of this stuff. I'll report back!
       
    22. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Which CBD/CBN oil are you taking?

      I'm in a bad way with anxiety and insomnia.
       
    23. tpj
      Depressed

      tpj Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2008
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      probably noise
      @DebInAustralia, do you take anything for sleep?
       
    24. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      I found that beeZbee CBN/CBD tincture helps. It can be bought online too.

      I tried many different CBD varieties until the kid at the CBD shop explained to me CBN is specifically for sleep.
       
    25. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Would you mind linking the one you have and the dose?

      I hope it's THC free.

      My zzz is messed up, waking early mornings with severe anxiety, panic and sweats.
       
    26. LostinTX
      Jaded

      LostinTX Member

      Location:
      Arlington, TX
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      poss ototoxicity/unknown/BVVP diagnosed first then tinnitus
      Sure! I get the regular strength. It does not have the THC effects in it.

      https://www.shopcbdkratom.com/products/cbd-cbn-tincture

      I take about two droppers at night. I also still take my Melatonin and Gabapentin my doctor prescribed for sleep.
       
    27. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      I am happy to update here. I understand your reservations. I am fearful at times too, but need to move forward with rebalancing my hormones in the hope that I can improve my quality of life.
       
      • Like Like x 1
    28. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Just re reading your posts. Glad you had some improvement with the OTO-313.

      No doubt, this has been triggered by your hormonal fluctuations.

      You mentioned you had head noise, and ear noise. Now it is only in your ears. This baffles me.

      I have a gas leak in my head, that isn't modulated somatically or with residual inhibition. Then on bad days, my ears join in and I have a whole head gas leak/hissing party (the hissing from the ears are the only part that can be partly modulated with sound/facial movements).

      The literature isn't all that helpful as it is conflicting.

      Have you increased the LDN? I don't know whether to add that in at this stage or try to give the hormones a chance first.
       
    29. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Until this relapse, I wasn't needing to.

      I wake up hot. Multiple times a night. I have seen a TCM practitioner. They have diagnosed me with rising liver heat with a yin deficiency. I will start a product by China Med called Empty Heat Formula. Just doing some research on the ingredients.

      I am on 34 mg progesterone biodentical cream daily. I have retested after use for a short time (severe anxiety) and it has risen from 1.8 to 6 (wow). I see an integrative doctor tomorrow. I will talk to her about increasing my progesterone dosage. Thinking the low progesterone is causing the heat.

      My oestradiol is low apparently. I will talk to the doctor about adding this in too. Unsure about this.

      I have tried small doses of Diazepam (2 mg) and Temazepam (5 mg). Can't say it has done anything spectacular. Have tried many of the natural sleep aides such as passionflower, magnolia flower, californian poppy, magnesium l-threonate, valerian, hops etc. None of them touch the side effects for me.

      I suppose it depends on why you are having sleep issues. For me, it is mostly about feeling hot and bothered. Then panic sets in when I hear 'it', and off I go on another day of clawing my way through till I can hit the sack again.

      I have ELAN CBD oil (THC free) 100mg/ml. I am up to taking 40 mg am/pm. I haven't noticed any difference either way in my sleep, mood, or tinnitus. I will be reviewing with the CBD prescriber tomorrow and see what else they can suggest. The one CBD oil I would really like to try is American (Kannaway), and unfortunately they don't ship to Australia.

      My inability to cope with my tinnitus relapse escalated with an urgent referral to a mental health team. I was offered low dose Mirtazapine or Seroquel. I am highly reluctant to take either one of these because of an intense fear of making my situation even more dire.

      In short, I will try getting heat down with the Chinese herbs first, probably bump up my hormonal dosage, add in estrogen, and reconsider the CBD dose or try another product altogether (like the one @LostinTX is taking now for sleep).
       
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    30. AUTHOR
      AUTHOR
      DebInAustralia
      No Mood

      DebInAustralia Member Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Location:
      Geelong, Victoria
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2013
      Thank you! Can I ask is the CBD oil enough on its own to make you sleepy? i know you mentioned that you are taking other medications.
       
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