Coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19) and Tinnitus

In addition to swearing, that character has also wished that I would never be happy again. Can you imagine the depravity?

 

Who has wished that you never be happy again?

 

Yeh, I can, that's why I gave you a shout.

Still COVID-19 free here. I am watching the pandemic and sociopolitical turmoil boil over around the world and in the US where I am from, as you know.

Sorry nothing to add to the COVID-19 discussion at the moment.

Peace Out @Bill Bauer.

 

COVID-19 and Audiological Dysfunctions: Scrutinizing Recent Evidence
https://journals.lww.com/thehearing...OVID_19_and_Audiological_Dysfunctions_.1.aspx

And an older article from Mr . Baguley referenced in the study above:

Clinical Implications of Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine Ototoxicity for COVID-19 Treatment: A Mini-Review
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2020.00252/full

Ok I just need to raise you some points:
- I leave nearby Marseille in France, where there is the IHU (Institut Hospitalo-Universitaire) of Marseille led by Professor Didier Raoult.
- This is the only official hospital in France which prescribes HCQ + Azithromycin for Covid 19. Elsewhere in France, some GP prescribe them but it remains secret. Some celebrities and politicians have been treated in secret by HCQ.
- You must know that in Marseille, there is about 5x less hospitalisations and about 5x less deaths compared to the rest of the country classified as COVID19.
- The IHU follows every patient with low dose scans of lungs, electrocardiograms... to check for side effects.
- I must admit that I have not heard about ototoxicity as side effect checking in this hospital but I know that the dosage of HCQ is 3x200 mg per day, so less than in the clinical trials mentioned above.

Despite these facts, french government:
- classified in January 2020 HCQ as a medication which needs a prescription (it was available over the corner before this event).
- classified in March 2020 HCQ to be only available in hospitals (in a late stage of the disease) and not available anymore to give to patients by GP (in an early stage of the disease). Tough HCQ is known to be efficient in the early stage of the disease.
- decided in May 2020, to disrupt HCQ in all french clinical trials, following the fake Lancet article. Despite the fact that this article has been proven to be a fake, french government decided to not resume HCQ clinical trials,
- decided in October 2020 via the french FDA (ANSM in french) to disrupt the HCQ furniture to the IHU. The IHU has launched a lawsuit against FDA/government, but it is dragging a lot.

The french order of doctors has launched in October 2020 a lawsuit against Professor Raoult for quackery, because he has not conducted a random clinical trial with placebo. As this latter is always saying : "I am here to save people first !"

 

Someone who has been directly affected by either cancer or COVID-19, either as a patient or close relative of a patient, is going to have a much better understanding of the nature and impact of the illness than someone who has just looked at a bunch of statistics. I would have thought that was self-evident to anyone other than an idiot.

Your belief that the last major viral pandemics such as 1968-9 or 1918-19 were "p40 news" at the time shows that your grasp of history is as tenuous as your grasp of science.

I value my time too much to bother wasting any more of it wading through your making the same wrong points again and again so will place the rest of your comments in this thread on ignore.

 

Perhaps this might be true for animals. Most people have the ability to imagine how certain events would make them feel. For example, I learned about tinnitus several years before I got to experience it. I was horrified that something like that is possible. When I got it, it felt exactly like I had anticipated it would feel. Another thing to keep in mind is that a person who hasn't experienced cancer in the family had likely experienced something that is somewhat similar (e.g., having to care for someone with dementia, etc.).

Also, read my statement to which you were responding. It would be a bizarre and inefficient society where only the politicians who happened to have experienced cancer in the family were to make decisions about public policy regarding cancer.

It isn't a belief. I had already posted the evidence of that.

https://www.startribune.com/how-the...yore-from-spanish-flu-to-swine-flu/568899732/

In light of me being able to back up everything I say (see above), I wouldn't use the word "tenuous". Otherwise, you are right, my grasp of history is as good as my grasp of science.

Am I going to get an apology from you?

LOL! A true clown, if there ever was one.

 

The Truth About COVID-19 'Long-Haulers'

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

• 18.1% of individuals diagnosed with COVID-19 also received a first-time psychiatric diagnosis in the 14 to 90 days afterward. Most common were anxiety disorders, insomnia and dementia
• An estimated 10% of patients treated for COVID-19 report fatigue, breathlessness, brain fog and/or chronic pain for three weeks or longer. This phenomenon occurs even among patients who had mild cases of COVID-19
• U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data show the rate of COVID-19 patients who continue experiencing lingering health problems after recovering from acute COVID-19 may be as high as 45%
• Many post-acute COVID-19 patients fit the diagnostic criteria for ME/CFS, which has been linked to viral infections
• According to a COVID-19 treatment guide, many of these “long COVID” patients do spontaneously recover — albeit slowly — with holistic support, rest, symptomatic treatment and gradual increase in activity

 

Using this logic, the only people who should have the right to determine whether we will have lockdowns are the people who had lost their jobs as a result of lockdowns.

 

Sounds like when a person has undiagnosed psychiatric conditions they are more likely to actually believe that this year's flu is unusual as far as flus go, more likely to get tested, and then to freak out even more and require seeing a psychiatrist when they get a positive test result.

What is that figure for flu survivors?

They need to define "lingering health problems" and also report what this percentage is for the seasonal flu survivors.

"Many"? Are you kidding me? What is the fraction and how does it compare to that of the seasonal flu survivors?

That is likely true for the regular/seasonal flu survivors too.

 

@Bill Bauer, I understand your point-of-view regarding lockdowns as you can see from my earlier posts. There is a discussion to be had about what the best way forward is for the sake of our economies and the wellbeing of everyone. However, you cannot keep calling this the flu as it nullifies your better points and makes you look ignorant. It is a novel coronavirus that the world is learning about in real-time, and anything that is novel needs to be taken seriously as there are many unknowns. The more meaningful facts and figures will be looked upon retrospectively in years to come.

For what it’s worth, I do not agree with some of the censorship that we are witnessing, and I’ve said this before.

At the moment, I’m on my break as I work the graveyard shift that I’m working due to the lockdown. I’m mentally and physically exhausted, but at the same time, I’m counting my blessing that I’m still financially stable. Many are not where I live as businesses continue to go under.

The government are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The whole situation is a mess.

Stop calling it the flu and respect those who have been directly impacted by it.

 

Hi @Bill Bauer -- Since the symptoms of "long-haulers" are quite similar to and overlap with the symptoms of ME/CFS, I've followed this topic fairly closely. I don't know how to precisely define "many", but it seems like an apt adjective from the many articles I've read the on the subject.

Just to mention, I've seen you get into some very in-depth, involved conversations with a number of people on this forum. I often don't even try to follow them, because I just don't have the interest, nor the energy and stamina to do so. Just mentioning this to let you know I don't want to go down a rabbit hole on things I really don't have an interest in.

One of my main interests at this time is to point out to people on this forum who are interested that's there's significant overlap between ME/CFS and tinnitus, and significant overlap between people who are "long-haulers", and people who have ME/CFS. -- I try to post things that are informative--such as the potential for COVID-19 to impact people with tinnitus. I really try to stay away from arguments as much as possible.

All the Best!

 

One of your recent posts implied that you are one of the victims of these lockdowns. I sincerely hope that things will get back to normal for your family soon.

Do you agree that the flu back in 1958 and 1969 was deadlier than COVID-19? If you aren't sure, please take a look at the stats about those flus below:

[Also, keep in mind for the UK, when we look at the past 28 years, the number of deaths in 2020 is 8th highest (meaning that 7 of the past 28 years were deadlier, most likely due to the seasonal flu being bad those years).]

If you agree that COVID-19 is a lot less deadly than the flu outbreaks that are in the top 10% as far as mortality is concerned, then hopefully you will agree that for all intents and purposes we can refer to it as a flu. In other words, what the laypeople care about is how deadly the disease is and what happens when one catches it (40% of the people are asymptomatic for both COVID-19 and flu, one gets a fever, and after it is over there is a chance that one gets complications). Labeling it anything other than the flu might give someone the impression that it is deadlier than how the flu gets every decade or so. As we have seen, deceiving people like that can have horrible consequences.

It is my understanding that the flu virus mutates every 6 months, and all flus involve novel viruses.

Also, the common cold is a coronavirus which mutates constantly and that means that every time someone gets a cold there are "many unknowns".

If they start focusing on the total number of deaths, and always contrasting what is happening now to what has been happening over the past 30 years, there is no reason for them to get in trouble for opposing lockdowns. They choose not to do this and it is looking a lot like the objective is controlled demolition of everything we hold dear.

How could me showing that it is less deadly than some of the recent flu outbreaks (which nobody had cared about back when they had been taking place), and that the lockdowns aren't justified, be interpreted as me not respecting those that were impacted by it?

This is like saying that by misrepresenting the data and claiming that COVID-19 is deadlier than one of the recent bad seasonal flu outbreaks, one disrespects the people who got serious heart damage as a result of catching a flu.

 

Let's be honest, folks. "Flu" is a dogwhistle at this point, plain and simple, and here's why.

SARS-COV-2 is a novel coronavirus. We can admit this without speaking to how deadly or dangerous it is. However, right wing media early on latched on to "just a flu" wording. This is a common tactic: say something that is blatantly false and just keep repeating it until your base is saying it, and accepting it as fact. It's very different to say "this is just a flu" than "this is a flu-like virus", because the first statement is objectively false (coronaviruses are not flu viruses), whereas the second is something that could be debated, depending on what someone thinks qualifies as "flu like", and whether something that's ~10x as deadly meets that bar, given various other criteria.

It's also worth noting that several common coronaviruses in circulation cause colds and minor URIs every year, so it would be less incorrect to say this is "just a novel cold virus". But, no one has said that.

The wording is "just a flu", this is very explicitly designed, because it's a statement which is objectively false, easy to demonstrate is effectively false, and thus acts as a sort of password. People who use the "flu" wording have rejected science, rejected an evidence-based model of this disease, and are fully onboard with conspiracy theories. If this were not the case -- they would not be repeating, over and over, "this coronavirus is just a flu virus", since that's a statement which is objectively false. Repeating things which are objectively false to identify rile up the base is a time-honored tool of political disinformation. For recent examples, see also:

"MISSION ACCOMPLISHED IN IRAQ!" (GWB)
"We will punish the banks for their hand in the 2008 crisis!" (Obama)
"We will close Guantanamo Bay!" (Obama)
"I won the 2020 Election!" (Trump)

@Ed209 do you see a similar trend in the use of "flu" on that side of the water, and, do you have any other examples from UK politics of this kind of disinformation of just "repeat the lie until it becomes truth"? I am always reminded of this unattributed quote that definitely came from Karl Rove:

I remember finding this kind of outright rejection of building a society on top of fact-based ideas terrifying at the time. It still is, but, more and more we're seeing these people had no plan beyond expand and retain power at all costs, which has led to a lot of very stupid people having control of giant pieces of federal machinery they are not actually smart or trained enough to destroy as effectively as a fascist regime run by smart people would be. It turns out the "realities they created" have been transparently stupid with authoritarian and elite patriarchal society supremacist undertones.

People's take on COVID-19 has become a pretty good acid test for a lot of other things. Again, because of our dumb polarized society.

 

Well it's been five weeks since my tinnitus became worse when I had very mild COVID-19.

I had next to no symptoms apart from loss of smell and feeling a bit c***py for a week or so.

Now my tinnitus is just loud. I was able to wear earplugs to bed but I'm struggling to do that now. Mine got worse around the time I felt perfect which is weird.

 

Resources across southern Minn. being strained as cases continue to increase

 

COVID-19 is the very definition of a dogwhistle.

Nobody is disputing the scientific name of the organism that is causing this disease. What the people are saying is that "for all intents and purposes it is equivalent to the flu". Denying this in November 2020 is equivalent to repeating a lie in an attempt to normalize the lie.

If you want, you can use the term "COVID-19 - a virus that is evidently less deadly than the bad seasonal flu outbreaks that we get once very decade or so". Saying this would prevent the fearmongering, but it would sure be a mouthful.

All a layperson cares about is the deadliness of the organism. Using the term "flu" accurately conveys the level of danger we are facing and the level of response that's appropriate, and this is the reason to use the term.

The current outbreak having a 10 times higher mortality rate isn't consistent with the overall mortality rising by 5% (which is something that commonly happens once or twice every decade). I suspect that the "10" figure is the artifact of the hospitals having an incentive to classify deaths as COVID-19 deaths. We should look at the overall mortality figures (that are less likely to be falsified, for now) and use that to compute how much deadlier this year's outbreak is to the seasonal flu.

It is deadlier than the AVERAGE seasonal flu season, but the overall mortality figures imply that it is SIGNIFICANTLY LESS deadly than the bad seasonal flu outbreaks that we get every decade or so.

You are pretending to be dumb and not understand that nobody is disputing the scientific name of the organism, and what people are trying to convey is that "for all intents and purposes what we are dealing with here is equivalent to the flu".

Nobody has said that because what we care about is how deadly the disease is and what the appropriate response to it is. Those things are a better match for a flu, than they are for the common cold.

Says the person who thinks we are in the midst of a plague-like event, despite being unable to explain away the facts given to him. The first fact is that the mortality increase hasn't been anything we haven't been observing every decade or so. The second fact is that many of the earlier flu outbreaks have been deadlier than the current outbreaks, but even that level of deadliness wasn't a plague-like event, and back then the authorities acted appropriately and haven't made a big deal out of it.

 

Otologic dysfunction in patients with COVID-19: A systematic review

Abstract

Objective: To describe otologic dysfunction in patients with the novel SARS-CoV-2.

Review Methods: Search strategies acquired for each database included keywords. The keywords use were—Otologic OR Vestibular OR Audiologic and COVID-19 OR Coronavirus OR SARS-CoV-2. Resulting articles were imported into a systematic review software and screened for appropriateness. To be eligible for inclusion in the analysis, the studies and case reports should have met the following criteria: i. Description of otologic dysfunction in COVID-19 patients ii. peer review Studies were excluded if: i. the description of the specific dysfunction was inadequate ii. there were no original case descriptions Data that met the inclusion criteria was extracted and analyzed.

Results: A total of 62 articles were identified and screened, seven articles met the inclusion criteria and were analyzed. The articles were mainly case reports (5) with 2 case series. There were 28 patients in total identified with the largest study comprising 20 patients. All patients presented with hearing loss, 27 of whom had audiometry. Three patients had associated vestibular symptoms (vertigo, otalgia, and tinnitus).

Conclusion: SARS-CoV-2 is a probable cause of middle ear infections and sensorineural hearing loss, secondary to spread of the novel virus into the middle ear and related neural structures.

 

I can’t think of a specific situation from a political point-of-view, but on social media it is rife.

 

This isn’t far from where I live.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/bl...F2jz17wnmfVIEYvUY6NPY8JPg-YOLTXoEAHBOGNDzRDck

 

I'm not quite sure what to make of this article, as I've seen other reporting that is quite contradictory to Mercola's. I've been a bit taken aback by some of his positions in recent months, often mirroring those of Fox News--yikes!

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...t1HL&cid=20201125&mid=DM729339&rid=1019705095

STORY AT-A-GLANCE

• There are currently no excess deaths while cases increase.
• Data show many deaths — primarily people aged 45 to 65, with equal distribution between the sexes — are mainly due to heart disease, stroke and cancer, which suggests they are excess deaths caused by lack of routine medical care due to the pandemic restrictions
• The PCR test is not a valid diagnostic tool and should not be done on the scale we’re now doing it. The high rate of false positives is only fodder for needless fearmongering
• Virtually no one who is asymptomatic has the live virus, but when you run the test at a cycle threshold over 30, meaning you amplify the viral RNA more than 30 times, you end up with a positive test even if the virus is inactive and noninfectious
• According to Michael Yeadon, Ph.D., a former vice-president and chief scientific adviser of the drug company Pfizer, very few people will need the COVID-19 vaccine as the mortality rate is so low and the illness is clearly not causing excess deaths

 

I do; it's nonsense that flies in the face of the vast bulk of peer reviewed data on this as well as the global medical consensus.

The sole source of information here besides Mercola (or ghostwriter) is Yeadon who claimed recently that the pandemic is "largely over" in the UK when in fact, uh



So -- as with assessing all narrative-oriented information sources (this includes all secondary and tertiary sources), we should be asking ourselves:

* is the narrative constructed out of facts - that is, things which are falsifyable. ("COVID-19 is a coronavirus" is falsifyable, "COVID-19 is a serious disease" is an opinion which is not, in and of itself)

* if not, then the narrative is fundamentally just that: a narrative that is trying to influence your thinking, without giving you any rational reason for doing so. (This doesn't mean it won't work, all propaganda works, as does advertising).

* if so, then ask yourself, "of the falsifyable claims made in this constructed narrative, can I prove that none of those claims can be falsified based on available data from primary sources?"

I find that particular Mercola piece to be mostly a mix of things which can be pretty readily falsified, and things which are not falsifyable. So, I don't think it's reliable.

Whether or not something is "close to Fox news" isn't a very good metric; they have a particular set of narratives they sell, which do not have a good general track record of being discernibly truthful, but that doesn't mean that any particular fact they offer up is itself wrong, or even inherently suspect.

All secondary sources need to be treated with a high, high degree of skepticism. Whenever possible, ignore the narrative and try to discern what sources the author used to form those opinions. Trace that back -- do you find primary sources, or more narrative? Do you have relationships with subject matter experts in different scientific and medical disciplines? If so, lean on that network to help you parse primary sources which you yourself might not have the context to interpret in the same way -- but also be wary of just accepting narratives from subject matter experts, especially if they are close friends.

We could talk about someone like Chris Kresser -- he's a blogging acupuncturist from California with a book to sell you, so all that should rightly set off some alarm bells. Flip side is, he wrote one of the most interesting takes on GERD I've ever read, his suggestions (which did NOT involve buying his book, or in any way spending money on his website) made sense and cleared up my GERD. But, in that case -- he cited a fair amount of actually cutting edge peer-reviewed papers, and was also clear to say "this is just my theory, based on the data we have". So, he's sort of -- somewhere on the "Mercola spectrum", but I am less immediately hostile to him because I think his intentions, while still basically capitalistic, are still more humanistic.

 

For 6 weeks now my tinnitus has been very loud. Not just the usual spike of the loudest tinnitus sound in my ear (like my usual spikes), but also I have another sound that comes and goes in the past related to vibration from driving or walking too much but this sound has also increased

I had very, very mild symptoms. If it wasn't for the loss of smell I wouldn't have been any the wiser.

The strange thing is that my tinnitus increased nearly two weeks after I suspect I caught the virus and by this time I felt perfect again for the first day or two but then overnight my tinnitus increased.

I've been under stress since for other reasons but I believe that the tinnitus increase was due to the COVID-19 infection. It's just weird timing when it increased in my opinion.

I'm hoping that it will pass one day and that the virus didn't damage my inner ears, hoping that I've had no hearing loss from it.

I'm just struggling a lot now

 

Doesn't seem likely the virus caused it. The timing doesn't make sense.

Could you get a hearing test done for some peace of mind?

And get rid of that stress. Stress has been proven to make tinnitus worse and even cause it!

 

The following free webinar is being presented by an ME/CFS organization. Just reading their blurb can give some insight into the connection between post-COVID-19 symptoms and ME/CFS.

Wednesday, December 9, 2020 Webinar

COVID Long Haulers and the ME/CFS Community:
Joining Forces for Progress

Presented by Global Pandemic Coalition CEO Hunter Howard, Covid-19 Long Hauler Advocacy Project Founder Karyn Bishof, Solve M.E. President & CEO Oved Amitay, and Solve M.E. Advocacy & Community Relations Director Emily Taylor

Webinar description:

The term “long haulers” refers to the growing number of people who contracted COVID-19 and continue to suffer from symptoms past the anticipated recovery time – even though tests might reveal no virus left in the body. COVID-19 “long haulers” continue to struggle with debilitating symptoms, often alone, in the shadows of this devastating disease. Having escaped the worst, they nevertheless continue to struggle with symptoms that in many cases are indistinguishable from ME/CFS.

After contracting COVID-19 early in the pandemic, Hormone Therapeutics CEO Hunter Howard endured a long, painful recovery process. Shocked by the lack of solutions to the epidemic, he launched the Global Pandemic Coalition to drive much needed services and connected with other survivors to start the search for answers.

The Coalition now spans six continents and pursues COVID-related solutions with the hope of introducing them to the general public and governmental agencies. The Coalition aims to collaborate with government agencies and hospitals to make health recommendations for the reopening of public spaces and is investigating efficient contact tracing for widespread use to help slow the spread of the virus.

Karyn Bishof is a firefighter and paramedic who has been dealing with the lingering effects of COVID-19, many of which are reminiscent of ME/CFS, for eight months. Ms. Bishof founded the COVID-19 Long Hauler Advocacy Project, which is focused on advocacy for survivors, long haulers and their care.

The group focuses on advocating for long haulers by pushing for comprehensive post-COVID care centers which includes communications with law makers and hospital systems. The group also provides resources and tips for how patients can organize and advocate for themselves with their own physicians and participates in community outreach via media appearances, articles, blogs and a PSA. The group values the support of other chronic illness communities and works with them to collaborate on common goals.

In this webinar, Solve M.E. President & CEO Oved Amitay and Advocacy & Community Relations Director Emily Taylor will talk to Howard and Bishof about their experiences with long-COVID and how their respective backgrounds in IT health care and emergency medical services have informed their approaches to gaining community-based knowledge. We’ll explore how COVID long haulers and the ME/CFS community can join forces for progress in the study, understanding and management of both COVID-19 and ME/CFS.

When:
Wednesday, December 9 at 10 am PT/1 pm ET
Register here.

 

It has not been proven to cause it as far as I know?

 

I might have it now. Please bring me up to speed, is it likely to make my tinnitus permanently worse? I got a new very prominent tone a few days ago and now my symptoms are slowly starting to unfold. There is nothing else that could have caused the new tone as far as I know.

 

It has the potential to, but it’s still far more likely that it will have no effect. When I contracted COVID-19, my tinnitus initially ramped up and was deafeningly loud, but mine always does that whenever I have a cold or I’m bunged up so it was par for the course. It wasn’t permanent, for me.

 

Hugs and hang in there but I think the likely situation is that you get a temporary worsening like you might expect with any virus, and then things will calm down. Try to keep your e-tubes open and all that, steam baths, pseudoephedrine, etc.

 

There's a very, very small chance that your hearing will be affected. Don't stress about it, it will only make things worse.

Follow your doctor's advice. Rest and eat healthy so you can heal asap. I hope you'll recover soon!