Frequency Therapeutics — Hearing Loss Regeneration

Discussion in 'Research News' started by RB2014, Dec 8, 2016.

    1. Lucifer

      Lucifer Member Podcast Patron Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      Prison
      Tinnitus Since:
      -
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      -
      I was not expecting these posts backing me up. I was going to say something yesterday about the reply I received for my previous post but thought there was no point. I’m glad some of you said something today.

      There is a saying treat others like you want to be treated. It doesn’t hurt to be kind to others. If you don’t have something nice to say to someone, it’s best to stay quiet.
       
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    2. NYCGuy
      Wishful

      NYCGuy Member Benefactor

      Location:
      NY
      Tinnitus Since:
      10/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Neck, Jaw or Stress, who knows.
      I totally agree with you.
       
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    3. star-affinity
      Wishful

      star-affinity Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1993, increase in 2020, then new in 2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unsure about the first. Too many beers? Music during sleep.
      At 0:44:37 tinnitus is being brought up.

      It is said that when the nerves going to a hair cell loses that hair cell they become ”irritable" and "being to rhythmically discharge" and that would be the cause of tinnitus. Sure seems that could be the case for at least my most intrusive tinnitus. I sure hope getting those hair cells back would make the nerves connect and be happy and calm again.

      Thanks for sharing the video!
       
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    4. Chad Lawton

      Chad Lawton Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2/19/18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Possible Ototoxicity + Noise Exposure
      Don't mind the Eeyores.
       

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    5. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Location:
      Philadelphia PA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      Does anyone think reactivity is caused by damaged synapses? Looking to understand this further. My reactivity competes with all sounds but goes back down when the sound is eliminated. No actual hearing loss here besides “hidden hearing loss” at 16 kHz and up but I’m 36.
       
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    6. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      It's going to be impossible for anyone on this forum, or any doctor to reliably diagnose the underlying causes of tinnitus. There aren't tests that can objectively measure what you're experiencing, and everyone's experience is different in the acute phase and chronic phases of this condition.

      As far has acquired hearing loss (noise, sudden, medication) that has resulted in some form of tinnitus symptom experienced by the patient; There is agreement among recent researchers that synaptic damage and hair cell damage is likely to have occurred. Therefore it's highly likely that you, me, and most of the people on this site experiencing some spectrum of tinnitus symptoms have a mixed pathology of synaptopathy and hair cell damage.

      There are some arguments that the reactive tinnitus you're experiencing is the dysfunction of damaged outer hair cells in specific regions of the cochlea. Further, this may be a function of "loudness recruitment" where the auditory system is "turning up" the volume of the damaged region, trying to make sense of the sound it is receiving. Again, highly anecdotal stuff, not great science backing it up.
       
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    7. IntotheBlue03

      IntotheBlue03 Member

      Location:
      Philadelphia PA
      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2021
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Cervical/TBD
      Thanks @Diesel. This is helpful. It’s the reactivity aspect that is the most torturous for me and, like others, I wish I had a way to address that alone. I do have 2 OAEs (although conflicting) that point to some losses and I am experiencing sound sensitivity aka hyperacusis (no pain though). I do think the sound sensitivity and reactivity go hand in hand so thanks for the info again.
       
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    8. ThomasF
      Creative

      ThomasF Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably loud music
      The best comparison I've heard that made sense regarding the tinnitus and the likely cause is to think of it in a similar way to "phantom limb" syndrome. Where your brain remembers you having a hand, and while your consciousness can understand "I no longer have a hand" the less interactive parts of the human mind are not capable of doing so. Just as the brain is used to getting signals from hair cells that those which are damaged makes no sense so the brain either makes up noise or forces noise to occur to make sense of it. The human brain, and nerve cells in general, are a little weird.
       
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    9. Kam75

      Kam75 Member

      Location:
      FRANCE
      Tinnitus Since:
      2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise induced trauma in 2014 and 2019+ototoxic drug in 2020
      One of the Parisian tinnitus specialists I consulted told me the same theory.
       
    10. ThomasF
      Creative

      ThomasF Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably loud music
      It makes a lot of sense when the physical nature of hearing comes into play. With sounds traveling through the air and physically touching the eardrum, then said vibrations affecting the hair cells.

      So it works out to suppose that, if one were to be able to regenerate said hair cells, hearing should return and tinnitus calm down or go away.

      Perhaps in the future gene therapy will come along to a point that humans will be able to activate the cells that replace damaged hair cells. Nothing is certain of course but if they can reactivate the genes that make chickens grow teeth and that supposedly suppressed genes can randomly become expressed, it isn't really impossible that such manipulation can still occur.
       
    11. GregCA
      Jaded

      GregCA Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      03/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Otosclerosis
      It is one hypothesis we are trying to validate. It takes a very long time, though.
       
    12. Diesel

      Diesel Member Benefactor Ambassador Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      1-2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      20+ Years of Live Music, Motorcycles, and Power Tools
      Isn't this what FX-322/345 is intended to do? It's not gene therapy, but activating cells and replacing damaged hair cells. Am I missing something?
       
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    13. SB1981

      SB1981 Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      06/2019
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Multifactorial
      000.gif
       
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    14. Reed19
      No Mood

      Reed19 Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      At least 4 years ago or my whole life
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown, ear infection, head trauma, music, drugs, badsleep?
      Yea and your brain can usually adapt to hearing loss, but if the loss is too big or the brain is hampered by stress or little sleep, it will fail to adapt.
       
    15. ThomasF
      Creative

      ThomasF Member

      Location:
      Florida
      Tinnitus Since:
      2001
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Probably loud music
      It is a molecular solution intended to activate the cells themselves to replace the damaged hair cells. Gene therapy manipulates human genes to express desired genes and suppress those that are undesirable. For instance birds have genes that make it a norm that their hair cells regenerate automatically. Whereas humans and most mammals have not kept this ability. If such a gene is latent in the human genome, then gene therapy is aimed at activating said gene and not solely the cells themselves.

      In the frontier of gene therapy there have been limited exploration into manipulating human genes. Some people have used mosquitos infected with a virus to transfer said virus into their blood stream to modify their active genetics. With some very mixed results. One person used this method to improve their physique so that they can build muscle. Others were simply afflicted with a viral infection.
       
    16. Bambam0
      Cool

      Bambam0 Member Podcast Patron Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2/2018
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Drums
      Sorry if this was posted but David Lucchino bought 300,000 shares last week. Also here are some quotes I saw on Stocktwits as I'm still a FREQ shareholder.

      David Lucchino, CEO:

      "These data, when pooled together, make a clear and compelling case that FX 322 has a clinically-meaningful impact on improving speech perception"

      "We believe that we have a drug candidate for hearing restoration in FX 322 with clear patient response"

      "These factors support our belief that we have a very promising candidate to be the first approved therapeutic for hearing restoration."

      "We believe these data inform a clear path to developing the first therapeutics to restore hearing."

      Carl Lebel, Chief Development Officer:

      "I think that, we've got a high likelihood of success here as we keep advancing the program through development."
       
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    17. UKBloke
      Caffeine

      UKBloke Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Interesting. Looks like the 300k volume @ circa $4.30 on 2/17 was him. Price currently @ $3.46.

      Gonna start monitoring H1 charts, probably just once a day to see if FREQ is finally bottoming out.

      fx.jpg
       
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    18. Champ
      Woot

      Champ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston, MA
      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Acoustic trauma from headphones
      The whales are accumulating.
       

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    19. bill 112
      Fine

      bill 112 Member

      Location:
      Republic Of Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure
      There’s been a nagging thought in my head about regeneration of the inner ear since I was exposed to this line of research and it’s this...

      The problem I have with it, and I’m hoping someone far more intelligent than I can explain it to me, is what happens to the damaged cells that are still alive and functioning but just severely damaged?

      As far as I’m aware these treatments cause supporting cells to become new hair cells but if a damaged cell next to it is causing the tinnitus, reactive tinnitus and/or hyperacusis, then the new cell won’t fix that as the cell responsible is still misfiring right next to it.

      Then when it comes to the underlying synapses and auditory nerve fibres that regrow and connect to the new hair cell, what about the old nerve fibre that may still be present and causing said symptoms? New nerve fibres sprout out and connect and that’s great but if the old nerve fibre that’s causing the problem isn’t healed or reconnected then the symptoms would persist, would they not?

      Best analogy I have for what I’m trying to say is it’s like a four cylinder car engine that needs rebuilding but, instead of fixing the damaged cylinders causing the issue, we just add a few more cylinders making it an eight cylinder. So what we have is four new cylinders working perfect alongside old damaged cylinders that are still there misfiring away and thus the car won’t run properly until those cylinders are repaired and thus the problem will continue to persist.

      I know all that might sound stupid and that’s because it probably is but with that mindset in mind I just don’t see this being the solution or working for tinnitus/hyperacusis etc. unless there’s something I’m missing to which I’d greatly like to hear.

      Been awhile since I was last here, hope all is keeping well.
       
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    20. Brian Newman

      Brian Newman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shooting/loud noise
      Dude let me know when you decide to get some shares. I’m waiting for it to bottom out too. Probably around $3.00? Too early to tell but imagine getting it at $2.00 and going back up to $50-60. Sheesh.
       
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    21. UKBloke
      Caffeine

      UKBloke Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Today's open is going to be telling. If it's above $3.50, (circa $3.55 would be nice on a gap up) then that would be quite an important first development for the long term. If it opens below $3.48 I'm going back to sleep lol.
       
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    22. Exit

      Exit Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Tinnitus Since:
      01/2020
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise
      You can worry about a lot of things but no point comparing 8 bangers with inner ear hair cells. Probably everyone got some hair cells malfunctioning inside here and there. If they fix most of them, the rest our body will take care of.

      The big issue is... does it work!
       
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    23. UKBloke
      Caffeine

      UKBloke Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      No gap up and the opening H1 candle just closed lower @ $3.38. Not really that interested in FREQ right now.
       
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    24. Brian Newman

      Brian Newman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shooting/loud noise
      What are you thinking for long term? Results come out in November? If this drug gets passed, either way it’s going to the moon.
       
    25. UKBloke
      Caffeine

      UKBloke Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      1991
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Loud Music / family history
      Hey man,

      Checking the H1 chart only, those outside bear bars (that shaded oval) can be engulfed bullish on the next candle and give an early heads up that the market is making a swing low indicating 'pro money' *may* have appeared.

      The Lucchino news was quite interesting and this evidently tied in with the potential for a swing low to begin printing, which is why it was worth taking a look, but evidently that next candle didn't print bullish. And in fact the market has continued south.

      Price-action wise, had that swing low printed and price continued to move north, I would have waited for either a retest (shaded box) or potential buying opportunities if further demand appeared on the way up and price pulled back to test it and give a decent confirming PA.

      I genuinely have zero interest in scheduled news and results. Only PA. Obviously as tinnitus sufferers with a vested interest in FREQ, we have a bias towards it, however, if none of us possess the kind of money needed to move the market north (which I presume none of us do!!) then, my way of doing it at least, is to always wait until I see evidential price-action that the big money is in play. Even despite Lucchino's $300k purchase, at this point I don't see it.

      fx.jpg
       
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    26. Brian Newman

      Brian Newman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shooting/loud noise
      Thanks for the info! Yeah, it is definitely very bearish. I don’t see it going back up any time soon. I won’t go crazy, if it hits $2 I’ll buy a few shares and just hold. As of now it seems way too volatile and only dropping, and yeah of course we are all biased! When it comes to investments, biotech is high risk, high reward as you already know. Lmk if you think it bottoms out. I won’t buy any for a while. If I see a good support, then maybe.
       
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    27. rei

      rei Member Benefactor

      Tinnitus Since:
      2006 but not a problem till 10/19
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      loud music spiked with lyme disease
      I am also patiently waiting for FREQ to hit bottom so I can make a larger purchase. It's a tricky game, that's for sure.
       
    28. Brian Newman

      Brian Newman Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      12/2016
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Shooting/loud noise
      It really is. What are you waiting for? I was thinking $2.00 or $2.50. I try not to let my biased opinion get the best of me because the market doesn’t care. But it really seems like this drug works and that too many injections and desperate people lying to get in ruined the trials. Getting this stick with Otonomy at such a low price would be so much return.
       
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    29. Chad Lawton

      Chad Lawton Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2/19/18
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Possible Ototoxicity + Noise Exposure
      It's impossible to time the market, you will only know it's the bottom until after it passes so it's best to just cost average in. Granted, I'm deeply in the red on FREQ as I started accumulating shares around $8 so I was clearly too early. I remind myself of the quote from Christian Bale when he plays Michael Burry in The Big Short "Just because I'm early, doesn't mean I'm wrong." as Burry was deeply in the red leading up to the housing market collapse when he bet against housing, but he finally made out like a bandit when it did collapse.

      It's entirely possible that the stock can go back to $50 to $60 from its current levels, biotech is the sector where that most often happens. Look at the 5 year charts on biotechs like NVAX, SAVA, MRTX or AXSM. Here is an article talking about the ingredients required for biotech to perform as such.

      These 3 No-Brainer Tricks Will Help You Pick Millionaire-Maker Biotech Stocks Like BioNTech

      I think FREQ matches this description to a T. FREQ has been the victim of bad science in that they botched their last trial and made the statement "it showed no benefit over placebo". Yet when you dig into the data, almost 50% of both the treatment group and placebo group responded AND the placebo group was only 1/3 the size of the treatment group so management's explanation for why that may have been is completely plausible. The company is trading below cash value right now and the Astellas deal payouts alone are worth 4x their current market cap.

      Full disclosure again, I'm a large shareholder deeply in the red right now but I'm still buying as the underlying fundamentals haven't changed and I believe it will go back to $50 a share someday.

      As for Lucchino, he didn't actually buy those shares; he received restricted stock units which were most likely part of his compensation package. You can tell because the acquisition price on the SEC filing is for $0 a share. Also, don't forget that Lucchino has experience making it through clinical trials to commercialization when he was CEO of Semprus Biosciences so this isn't his first rodeo. For him to make statements like "These factors support our belief that we have a very promising candidate to be the first approved therapeutic for hearing restoration." That's pretty confidence inspiring in my opinion.
       
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    30. bill 112
      Fine

      bill 112 Member

      Location:
      Republic Of Ireland
      Tinnitus Since:
      02/2012
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Noise exposure
      The thing is though we’re not repairing them or “fixing” most of them, we’re bypassing them or creating new hair cells beside the damaged old hair cells whilst the damaged areas are still connected to the brain.

      To use the car analogy again what we’re expecting is that by putting new pistons in alongside severely damaged old ones that the ECU will just figure it all out and it simply doesn’t work like that.

      What we’re hoping to see from the trials is if the new pistons can get put in and function and if they can then it’s seen as a success but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s going to function properly or fix the issue that warranted the repair in the first place if the old damage is still present and not repaired.

      It may be a stupid analogy but it’s how my brain breaks it down, another way of putting it is by putting a new finger next to a broken finger, you’ve regained the function of your hand but the pain from the broken finger is still there and always will be until that finger is fixed or completely removed, putting a new finger next to it won’t change that and that’s what I see here.

      I can see this potentially helping people with “normal” hearing loss but I don’t see it helping tinnitus/hyperacusis/noxacusis, especially not those with normal high frequency audiograms and otoacoustic emissions tests.

      Let’s not forget the severity of your hearing loss does not determine the severity of your tinnitus/hyperacusis etc. so losing more hearing doesn’t necessarily mean an increase in tinnitus, so whose to say an increase in hearing will mean a decrease in tinnitus?

      I still think tinnitus and hyperacusis are as a result of synaptic damage or nerve fibre damage.

      Trust me, I hope I’m completely wrong in what I just said. I hope they prove me wrong with this treatment but I remain reserved.
       
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