GABA Supplements (Including Picamilon)

Discussion in 'Treatments' started by John Bacon, May 7, 2012.

    1. gintas

      gintas Member

      Location:
      Lithuania
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015-05
      so, anyone used GABA supplements? it works for T or not?
       
    2. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I've tried GABA supplements and picamilon and it had no effect whatsoever. However Pu-erh tea contains GABA and actually works. Whenever I drink that tea I feel really high and happy, so works for sure. If you do get some make sure to get some which has aged, because the stuff which has aged contains more GABA.

      https://www.tinnitustalk.com/thread...kainic-acid-induced-status-epilepticus.10067/
       
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    3. Markku
      Inspired

      Markku Founder Staff Benefactor Hall of Fame Advocate

      Tinnitus Since:
      04/2010
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Syringing
      GABA doesn't cross the blood-brain barrier, Picamilon supposedly does.

      I did take Picamilon a long time ago and noticed a very subtle positive effect, but it was nothing to write to home about. Could very well have been placebo.
       
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    4. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I took it for the same reason without result. However, Pu-Erh is tea which contains caffeine plus GABA

      Blood-brain barrier transport of caffeine: dose-related restriction of adenine transport.
      McCall AL, Millington WR, Wurtman RJ.
      Abstract
      We studied the transport of 14C-caffeine across the blood-brain barrier (BBB) by measuring brain 14C:3H ratios five seconds after rats received the caffeine, with 3H2O, by intracarotid injection. Caffeine was found to enter the brain by both simple diffusion and saturable, carrier-mediated transport. This latter observation suggested to us that caffeine's transport might involve macromolecules that are structurally similar to caffeine. Hence, we examined caffeine's ability to inhibit the BBB transports of 14C-adenosine and 14C-adenine. Caffeine caused a dose-dependent inhibition of 14C-adenine transport but no clear change in that of 14C-adenosine. At very high blood levels (Ki = 9.8 mM), caffeine may restrict the availability of circulating purines to the brain. This effect may be important neonatally, when carrier-mediated adenine transport apparently is maximal.


      "Within minutes after you drink your coffee or tea, caffeine is carried by your bloodstream to all your organs and virtually every cell in your body. Because caffeine is fat soluble, it passes easily through all cell membranes: It is quickly and completely absorbed from the stomach and intestines into the blood stream, which carries it to all the organs. Caffeine permeates organs more rapidly than most other drugs, but not more rapidly than alcohol. And because there are no significant physiological barriers that hinder its passage through tissue throughout the human body, the concentrations attained by caffeine are virtually the same throughout the body and in blood, saliva, and even breast milk and semen.

      Many of caffeine’s powers depend on its power to pass into the central nervous system (CNS). To enter the CNS, caffeine must cross the blood-brain barrier, a defensive mechanism that protects the CNS from biological or chemical exposure by preventing viruses and other large (and most small) molecules from entering the brain or its surrounding fluid. Even when injected into the bloodstream, many drugs fail to penetrate this barrier, and others enter it much less rapidly than they enter other tissues. However, caffeine passes through the blood-brain barrier as if it did not exist."

      So makes perfect sense right there.
       
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    5. gintas

      gintas Member

      Location:
      Lithuania
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015-05
      Thanks ! Any used tryptofan or cordycept ? How about them ?
       
    6. nills
      Barefooter

      nills Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Belgium
      Tinnitus Since:
      11/2009
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      acoustic trauma
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    7. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Better drink a ton load of pu-erh tea then!
       
    8. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      Drugs are definetly giving relief in any cause od t. Just need to find right one, and not to get on high dosage. Like in this study, for exampe 1 mg of Klonopin per day, is just fine. People with epilepsy are taking 6, even 8 mg per day... just little compare...

      Not supporting drugs and pills, but we need to live as best we can unitil some right cure like autifony, or SF34, or am101 comes out...
       
    9. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      PT since 1988. T with H since June 2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I tried L-theanine and Taurine by Solgar. I think I noticed a slight improvement in my mood with the combo but not enough to justify the cost and I didn't miss it when I stopped.

      The only GABA related treatment that has worked so far is clonazepam. Normally it is painful for me to talk but if I take about 0.5 or 1mg of clonazepam I can normally have a good conversation at normal volumes without making my head spin.

      EDIT
      Summary:
      So far I have I found clonazepam more effective for my Hyperacusis than other GABA related treatments. It doesn't seem to dampen the Tinnitus, just sedates me so that I don't notice it as much.
       
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    10. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      Yup, we will know within the next 2 years if Autifony is the real deal or it is back to square 1
       
    11. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      "Benzodiazepines do not have any effect on the levels of GABA in the brain.[93] Clonazepam has no effect on GABA levels and has no effect on gamma-aminobutyric acid transaminase. Clonazepam does, however, affect glutamate decarboxylase activity. It differs from other anticonvulsant drugs it was compared to in a study.[94]

      Clonazepam's primary mechanism of action is the modulation of GABA function in the brain, by the benzodiazepine receptor, located on GABAA receptors, which, in turn, leads to enhanced GABAergic inhibition of neuronal firing. Benzodiazepines do not replace GABA, but instead enhance the effect of GABA at the GABAA receptor by increasing the opening frequency of chloride ion channels, which leads to an increase in GABA's inhibitory effects and resultant central nervous system depression.[4] In addition, clonazepam decreases the utilization of 5-HT (serotonin) by neurons[95][96] and has been shown to bind tightly to central-type benzodiazepine receptors.[97] Because clonazepam is effective in low milligram doses (0.5 mg clonazepam = 10 mg diazepam),[98] it is said to be among the class of "highly potent" benzodiazepines.[99] The anticonvulsant properties of benzodiazepines are due to the enhancement of synaptic GABA responses, and the inhibition of sustained, high-frequency repetitive firing.[100"
       
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    12. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      PT since 1988. T with H since June 2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Aha I stand corrected and good to know. Love your work by the way.
       
    13. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      Yes, that is because clomazepam is not just GABA related, it is firstly, and mainly an antiepiletic drug. Same as Trobalt (shows reduce of T. in many members) and Keppra (Shows great reduce of H in many members).

      So SF34 (based on trobalt) and Aut63 are on the right way i suppose!

      @erik I can not open the link...what is link about?
       
    14. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      I reckon because it reduces the glutamate it helps lower tinnitus. Trobalt also lowers glutamate, so maybe there's a link?
       
    15. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      @ChrisJ Hey Chris I've been taking between .25 - .50mg off and on for over a year and its the only thing that drastically reduces my T ...Benzo's are a slippery slope but I need to live life now ..
      How long have you been on Clonzepam if you don't mind me asking?
       
    16. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      PT since 1988. T with H since June 2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      I have taken 30mg in 3months. I try as hard as I can to avoid taking it. Only when I am really desperate because I don't want to be build a dependence and I have been kind of hoping that my body would recover with enough sleep and time. I cut up 2mg tablets in to quarters if I can, if not halves.
       
    17. ChrisJ

      ChrisJ Member Benefactor

      Location:
      London, UK
      Tinnitus Since:
      PT since 1988. T with H since June 2015
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Unknown
      Yes a lot of stuff I read pointed towards glutamate being a cause of T & H. I also noted your writeup about Keppra, now it's just a case of persuading a doctor in the UK to give me a prescription. I may have to go private.
       
    18. Danny Boy
      Cheerful

      Danny Boy Member Benefactor Hall of Fame

      Location:
      England
      Tinnitus Since:
      7/2014
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Ear infection
      Yeah, I hope you get it! It's unfair why have to beg for help...
       
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    19. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
    20. Mark662
      Transparent

      Mark662 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      United Kingdom
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1988
      I am currently trying
      L - theanine 2 x 150mg (Suntheanine - the purest L isomer form as many L - theanine supplements contain mixed isomers and the L form is supposed to be the most effective type)
      Picamilon 2 x 100mg
      5 HTP 2 x 100mg
      Once in the morning and once late afternoon. These are total daily amounts.

      Picamilon should be cycled, 2 weeks taking it, one week not. This is to avoid tolerance. I have read it is one of the safest nootropics.

      I'm taking it to reduce anxiety, not for tinnitus as nothing as ever helped, nor, more than likely, will this combination. If it does I will report it.

      I appear to feel better emotionally and a little more relaxed. I also dream, which I never have for many years.

      I have taken the above before singularly with no real effect.

      Gabapentin - I have taken it. I had some bad side effects and I do not recommend it.
       
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    21. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      I would say the dreams are from the 5HTP. I never experienced dreaming like I did when I was on it.
       
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    22. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      @erik Hey Erik I'm living proof of that study that's exactly what I'm on ....It worries me being on such meds and I refuse to increase my dose (Gaba 300 x 3 K .25mg) if anything I periodically cut back and suffer a few weeks then slowly go back to that dose....To have near silence and to know I can achieve that is comforting to know.
      T is such a beast
      God Bless
       
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    23. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      I can not open this link, 100 times try... :S

      Carlos, for how long u are washing yourself from it, and than how long u stay on it?

      How much it lowers your T.sound? tnx
       
    24. gintas

      gintas Member

      Location:
      Lithuania
      Tinnitus Since:
      2015-05
      does it haven't any side effect ? as i used something like AD who had serotonine -cymbalta, mitrazipine -my T increased
       
    25. Mark662
      Transparent

      Mark662 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      United Kingdom
      Tinnitus Since:
      1/1988
      @erik
      I can only guess it's because the brain is reaching a more relaxed state.

      I could have done without the dream I had the other night that involved cleaning my toilet with a toothbrush! Otherwise I wake feeling more rested.
       
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    26. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      Yes the fact that you can bring your T to near silence is a good sign that your T can be that low all the time. It is just a matter of finding the right key to unlock tinnitus. Drugs like Autifony may do just that and only time will tell.
       
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    27. erik
      Cool

      erik Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Washington State, USA
      Tinnitus Since:
      04/15/2012 or earlier?
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Most likely hearing loss
      I did not have any issues with it but some people do. And you should not take 5HTP with other meds. Anyway there are a few threads on it on TT, the latest one here: https://www.tinnitustalk.com/threads/5-htp-for-tinnitus-hyperacusis.1854/
       
    28. Carlos1

      Carlos1 Member Benefactor

      Location:
      Boston
      Tinnitus Since:
      08/2013
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      Root Canal
      @markoana hi markoana I usually go 6 to 8 weeks then I do my wash as you call it. It's a constant roller coaster ride but at least sometimes I feel like a normal person. Hope this helps
       
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    29. markoana

      markoana Member

      Tinnitus Since:
      2.2013
      I understand...and after, for how long are staying on this combo, before next pause (washing :) )?
       
    30. linearb
      Psychedelic

      linearb Member Hall of Fame

      Location:
      1
      Tinnitus Since:
      1900
      Cause of Tinnitus:
      karma
      No, it's much more direct than that.

      Specifically, this sentence, while technically true, is highly misleading:
      This is true (in the short term, see below), but benzodiazepines increase the action of GABA, causing chloride channels to open in the presence of GABA to a greater degree than they do otherwise. So, without actually modulating the amount of GABA in the brain, the GABA which is present has the same effect as a greater amount of GABA would in absence of the benzo... "virtual GABA", so to speak.

      In the long term, the brain becomes acclimated to the increased action of GABA, and responds by downregulating GABA receptors and potentially even shorting the supply. This is why I think benzos are, eventually, a worse-than-zero-sum game: if your problem (tinnitus, seizures, whatever) is caused by, basically, a GABA insufficiency, taking benzos for an extended period will eventually make your problem worse.
       
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