God, Prayers and Miracles — An Alternative for All?

Several billion people believe in Jesus and God, meaning they believe its possible to be healed from all sorts of stuff cause after all miracles and healing power is described in the bible. That so many people belong to this believe is within itself a little weird, especially because it can never be proven. So billions believe in things that is just a believe with no evidence that could win the case in the court of law. At the same time ENTs believe in fluffy theories and loose assumptions with no scientific proof whatsoever also, so it's not like the Christians are one of a kind in that way.

When I first got T I went to a couple of charismatic churches in pure desperation and asked to be prayed for by some seniors there so I could receive healing from God - it obviously didn't work for me. So if I look at it in scientific manner it's a waste of time and energy, but why do we hear about people that swear God and prayers set them totally free from heroin addiction, alcoholism, dyslectic disorders and what not?

Have anyone here experienced relieve of reduction in T after praying? You don't have to be a registered Christian to share your reflections on this. Personally I think it's a strange thing that I find myself pray although it never seem to work in a dramatic manner, however I must admit that it has resulted in some sort of relive and even weird experiences. But then my problems always comes back with great revenge, and it doesn't necessarily have to do with my T&H issues. And that is when my resistance to everything Christian is the strongest...but then I tend to forget it and return to prayers again some time later. I guess desperation is a very strong motivation.

If it's the the power of self suggestion, mental effects, imagination, unknown physical response mechanisms or whatever it is I don't care. However, the bottom line is that I still have T although I both prayed myself and received prayers from many believers in a church, and that is supposed to be the house of God if I understand the bible rightly.

Could believing strongly in something in fact "move mountains"? Can prayers and a strong believe depress the plagues of T? Can it in fact be a strong alternative medicine or can it only provoke anxiety cause of the potential for great disappointment and strengthened despair? I've talked to people that say they were very ill from physical conditions and that "God set them free" and healed them. What's going on?!

 

I recently have asked a good friend of mine who is a youth pastor to pray for me. He says he has seen miracles happen, and I have nothing to lose in praying.

 

Fingers crossed for you demi. I know why you wanna try as you can read from my post. Feel free to share how it's developing.

 

Praying might be good for helping your outlook. That's about it. I'm betting my cookies on research.

 

Actually the state of praying has been measured scientifically and has proven to be quite a state of meditation, doing wonders for the body. I believe in no divine powers (tinnitus was a part of the almighty's plan in the first place), turning to believe in higher powers is bliss in my opinion, but I respect the choice people have.
Back to science again; Many scientific studies have been done based on your question, and it's scientifically measureable that praying/which is the state of meditation, unrelated to divine powers, is measureable in several good ways for the body. I remember a program on a study in one of the Danish university hospitals, where 10 minutes everyday of meditating, for 4 weeks, were clearly in effect. Stress levels of the body were clearly decreased, and in general the your body and mind's capability of remaining calm despite all stress factors, were significally enhanced. Add to that when body is not in the fight or flight state, the body's ressources be focused on regenerating, adding new cells instead of doping one with stress hormones.
Finding composure and ease seems hard with tinnitus ochestrating in your ears, but its nothing relaxing music cant handle I think.
Personally I've seen and heard of more miracles performed in the presence of doctors and than priests, but you bet your cookies where you want
also! Per since you wrote this post and reminded me, my goal for the next week will be to meditate atleast 5min a day. =)

 

Research on biblical history is called theology I believe.

 

Praying might help but not because the creator of the universe cares about your tinnitus lol.

Meditation / prayer, call it what you will, but relaxing and reducing stress and focusing helps.

 

A former classmate of mine that became a heroin addict tried rehab for ages but became totally free from it after a prayer, it happened from one day to the next. She had been using for like 15 years or so and that story is not unique. They never did yoga or meditation, but a focused prayer to God with a hand on the bible. I must admit that I'm somewhat curious and puzzled by that, it's hard to avoid not being impressed by that. I'm pretty sure the same thing must have happened with someone struggling with T somewhere in the world. To me it doesn't really matter if the solution is a mental phenomena or if it really IS God touching people with a divine and heavenly power.

 

Long time ago I caught myself praying for all my wants instead of wondering what God may want from me. At this point I believe that if I should pray then I should treat it as a conversation with God rather than my want list. Perhaps one day my T will go away perhaps not. Perhaps it is a test to see how easily my spirit can be broken? Who knows... I know for sure that T should not define me, it does however annoy me. I hope that one day we will not have to listen to that annoying sound

 

God isn`t worried about our problems he has a whole universe to take care of ... it is never god that helps you, it is the god in the man woman that helps ... it is the power to make a change from inside that helps people when they tap into there own divinity ... the idea that an outside source like God comes in and changes you is based on the arrogance that we are important to him ... even more important than someone else ... grace exists but it is all from within yourself. We come from the same first big bang and developed into this so the power is within. At most you learn to trust in life and accept your destiny and find peace. All suffering comes from not accepting the way things are - and the way things are is GOD. cause GOD is all that is

 

@nills,

Seems to me that you acknowledge God but at the same time you limit his/it's power or ability. When you write that God has the whole universe to take care of etc. IF there's a God there are no limits, the moment we accept Gods existence then all things are possible in Gods energy and ability. I think its strange when some use the word creature without believing in creation. That's a contradiction. At the same time I thinks it's obviously something very strange when people say God is 100% true and heals everyone while they pray with no results. That's like looking at a red wall saying its green.

I don't believe we are very strong within ourself but that it's something outside us that makes the difference. Who knows, guess death is the only definitive answer. Right here and now it's all chaos and very little knowledge. It's all assumptions, theories and mystery. When I reflect on God, creation and healing I find this more mysterious than the T dragon itself. I'm positive we will never be able to really prove Gods existence while we live here on earth, but some people get well from all sorts of "chronic" diseases trough prayers and that puzzles me. In the cases I know myself it happened to people that had no prior believe system in their lives. Just wish I could achieve this with T.

What surprises me is that I still have fragments of hope and believe in a God although none of m physical healing prayers have resulted in healing. I should if I followed a logic pattern be an atheist or non believer by now but I'm not. I guess I'm caught in between logic and religion - but some would say they are both the same. A large percentage of the worlds greatest scientists, astronomers and biologists in history was strong believers in Christianity. Also in recent history.

 

I think what we want here is the blue or the red pill instantly. We're desperate after a shot of temporary lidocaine, hence one could be tempted to turn to God in hopes for the instant action. If God exists, His almighty plan gave you tinnitus in the first place. I would never turn to him in repentance, for being born human. If you don't repent and declare your belief, you'll burn in hell. If you don't believe in Allah, and he shows out to be the right, you'll burn in hell. If you don't meditate you'll never reach nirvana, and you'll remain on this stage of life. Not to mentioned 1mio smaller religions around the world, why is one God more right than the other?
Per, if you roll the dice on whether being born in the bible belt, the middle east or the orient, chances are between the 1mio+ religions out there, that you'll chose wrong.
Someone who plays on your fears, emposing a threat on you if you don't follow, is not an outside factor wishing you well.
As it is now, science on the matter of prayer which is the state of meditation, trance even, is not assumption, theory and mystery.
It's proven by science that prayers work, but not because of their divine powers. Because the state of mediation makes the mind capable of focusing on calmness, in the state of chaos. Relaxing and reducing stress as Erlend put it is key, and it is not something God does, if you chose to pray You're doing it

 

@Tenna,

I think you are misunderstanding my thread and my posts. I'm raising the question if prayers could be alternative treatment for T because so many people have gotten rid of serious illnesses through prayers, I'm not doing salvation work here, I'm not an apostle. I'm not a church goer and I'm not saying A) is more true than B). I'm simply sharing some toughs and reflections. Like I shared earlier I have already tried healing prayers. I'm willing to go everywhere and I'm willing to swallow all pride if it results in me getting free from T. God, praying, miracles etc are interesting topics for the same reasons I elaborate on in my posts.

I'm not sure if I agree that relaxing and stressing down is exclusively something that's separate from prayers. We can't know if meditation is an exercise that's NOT tapping into the divine or something Godlike. I don't think my friend the heroin addict did meditation but prayers based on exact scripture texts. But let's just agree that we basically don't know diddley about much, that's why we call it believe - but I agree we know scientifically that stress is very damaging. I have first hand experience with that and I've been writing extensively about stress here on TT.

 

I know. Which is why I'm explaining the scientific nondivine but very much physical effect of the alternative treatment. Why prayers through believing in God as the healing source, is the misunderstanding. Heck, Jonestown performed healing making fake 'cripples' walk with manipulation. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Hudson means research scientifically?
I said that relaxing, stressing down basically meditation, is exactly the equivalent of a prayer in effect. The difference is where the source to healing comes.
If I tell you that Tenna made the earth, Tenna is everyone's God and if you do not believe in her you'll burn for eternity, you can't know whether that's not tapping into divine or Godlike. On the other hand, what you can absolutely know, is the physical effect of praying/meditating is not an unsolved mystery, but very much proven by just science, showing out it has nothing to do with higher external powers, but your own power within: you controlling your chemistry.

Come on, apply that logic and you can't know if going to the toilet is divine then. That's a mechanism doing the body good.

We need to know, not believe. There is enough scientific knowledge on the field to stop believing.
If that worked for your friend, I'm thrilled. But what she did is the equivalent of meditation, which brings quite some hope as she by doing that could achieve what she did.
In meditation you close out everything, but a focus on your breathing. Scripture texts being that element in your friend's case. Your own breathing is not a rift to the divine world. It's very earthly and scientifically measureable.
The vast majority of people who got rid of T that I've heard of, was not affected by divine intervention Auris etc is not divine intervention. What I know is doctors saving lives in wars caused by religion. Surely I and nobody can disprove a divine connection, but with the elements in prayer, you'd basically obtain the same effect by worshipping leprechauns or unicorns.

Anyway! Why don't you try it out? We almost ought to make a tinnitustalk mediation/prayer project <:

 

During my theology studies I realized that not only Christianity but many other religions of the world function as explanations of life's chaotic randomness.
If we talk about the Bible then to me the book of Job is the utmost testimony of the relationship between God and human. Job always believed in God and never did any wrong. Then God made a deal with the Satan (Satan also surrenders to the will of God) and gave him permission to take Job's family, wealth and health (but God did not allow Satan to kill Job). In the following chapters we see Job's agony and his friends opinion. In the end, God replies Job's questions. But he never gives a direct reply. He simply says that He is almighty and it is not a human beings duty to ask why things are the they are - a human simply has to trust God.
That doesn't mean one can't pray - of course one can do it. But that does not mean that the prayers will be answered. As was mentioned before, God has a plan for everyone and the bad things that happen to us are also in the plan. In the older layers of the Bible we do see a belief that if a person is "right" (afraid of God) then good things happen - but later people learn that it is not always so. Also, probably our and God's perceptions are different - we want life to be easy even if God never said that life has to be easy.
By ideas are from a theological point of view (study of the Bible) but what Tenna said earlier is in fact true: studies of meditation and prayer are rather the sphere of neuropsychology.

 

@Markku,

Yes, there are numerous stories like that and a lot of times it happens to drug addicts. Seems like theres a God out there that really despites narcotics. Wish the same God could throw T out the door with the same force, or at least make my brain totally unaware of it, just as those addicts were totally free from withdrawal. I've prayed many times but my T is still alive and kicking, so I guess I might as well start doing horse or blow.

jesus saves korn rockstar from drug abuse and...

 

"John 14:12 "Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it."

"Matthew 21:22 "And all things, whatever you shall ask in prayer, believing, you shall receive."

"Matthew 7:7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find."


Hm...

 

It is true that there are many of these citations But the Bible has many different layers (e.g. texts) from different time periods. Therefore it is a mix of different ideas. Yes we can find centuries and paragraphs that contain these ideas, it is especially easy if you take them out of the context. But the tendency is that in the later period when people learned that prophets and apostels in fact suffered more than the one's who didn't follow God's orders.
That didn't mean that the belief in God didn't remain. It simply meant that people realized that God's ways an unexplainable and one must accept both the good an bad sent by God and give him thanks for it anyway.

 

@Stina,

I didn't take anything out of context, on the contrary it's directly from the bible, the same book Gods says IS his words. It was a direct response to your post stating that prayers won't necessarily be answered. Well the bible says differently. My clear point here is that we will never ever know the truth behind all of this, so in context of prayers and miracles all we can do is choose to believe or not believe. My story is that of test and trial. I have tried what these bible quotes are saying without experiencing direct results. I asked for T to be removed in Jesus name ( "John 14:12 ) but it did not occur. I have asked numerous times after that in prayers and "meditation". As I have also elaborated on in my posts I still believe, or to put it differently: I'm still not an atheist or disbeliever of God. So I guess this believe system is kinda strong in me, either that or I'm plain naive. At the same time I witness miracles and strange things happening in other peoples life. Some of it is just mad. It's not explainable by common sens or logic. So I guess my hope is still in God, although the bible is both two faced and not trustworthy "as is".

I think there's something way greater out there than any bible or book can explain. It's all speculations. God obviously doesn't care much about T anyhow. Not mine at least...

 

If you read my posts you'll see that I've tried this and then some. Again, I'm talking out of experience. I'm sharing real stuff here. My classmate is free from horse still. It wasn't mediation or yoga. If you read my posts you will also see that MY attempts at praying has not yet resulted in anything in context of T. Listen, I would stand on my head singing Bird is The Word for a week if it lowered my T volume or made my H less active.

My point with this thread in a group called Alternative treatment and research, is to find out if anyone else has experienced something worth sharing in context of praying and if prayers can be an alternative. Please see headline saying: "God, prayers and miracles - an alternative for all?"

Just to recap, heres the list of things I have tried to treat my condition:

- Physiotherapy
- ENT assessments
- Audiologist assessments
- White noise generators
- Breathing techniques
- Me praying for myself
- Preachers praying for me in a traditional church
- Two visits to a so called non Christian alternative "healing church"
- Stopped wearing headset for music
- Better diet
- Forum activity
- Research of current scientific T&H material
- Talked to other T sufferers in my country to retrieve advice
- Talked to the T associations in foreign countries
- Read books on mental training and stress management
- Emailed several T clinics around the world to gather information on treatment methods

In addition to this I'm constantly trying to adjust my life and to not treat my T as something threatening, that is probably the hardest thing. If prayers can make lifelong drug addicts totally clean overnight then I think there is something interesting there to pursuit. Although it hasn't worked for me yet it obviously has for others. I'm currently exchanging emails with a non forum person that had loud T for some months and prayed, that person doesn't have T anymore although his doctor sayd he certainly had a severe loss of inner ear micro hair cells. I sometimes find that almost unfair, but of course I try to use it in a positive manner as well.

 

I think we are speaking from a different point of view Yes the Bible is the word of God but we do not have the original text. We only have the versions where pieces of texts and ideas have later been added, usually many and many times by different people from their own point of view(and not by God anymore). Therefore, the people who belonged to the older generation believed that that God will save them from the suffergins, the later generation realized that sometimes God sends sufferings for no apparent reason. the Bible gives a connection to God but since we do not have "the original word of God" an even stronger connection can only be found in a person's heart and mind.
In addition to this, if one reads the Bible carefully one will also witness many sufferings. For example , the story of Abraham was one of a great suffering - he was given a promise at a young age at it was fulfilled decades later - imagine what it must have felt like.
But I do believe that miracles happen and perhaps they could happen to you

 

Well, you get different answers when you talk to ministers on this topic. Many say that God has made sure the bible is complete cause he has promised his hurdle that not a single word will be lost. "Isaiah 55:11 says, "So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it."

To conclude there are so many theories and answers, it all depends who you ask. For instance there are many large Christian communities that doesn't believe Lucifer is nothing else but an invention of humans, although he is clearly mentioned in the bible. And the list of remixes and theories goes on and on. The bible is translated so many times now so it's impossible to know what is original and what is edited. State churches practice their believe systems different from independent churches and charismatic churches etc. In my country the state church was established after the Lutheran reformation in in 1536. They don't practice healing prayers at all. Whilst heaps of other charismatic churches here are chanting about the holy spirit setting evil spirits free and what have you. The state church revoke stuff like that and claim to be right of course. It's all a circus of power and authority.

 

It is true, there are many different views Mine was simply from a historical-critical view following findings from exegesis. But its not used in a church because it would be too confusing.

 

I'll repeat "see the headline" , and the questions you raise yourself. Addressing the scientifically proven effect of prayer/meditation are of the highest relevance to what you inquire.

The rest of the recap is irrellevant to your investment in prayers
Those two and self prayers here and there is what I've gotten from your posts. This is not adequate for what you wish to acheive (that's what you say atleast). As I stated there is a clear scientifical effect on the body at 10min each day for 4 weeks. No priest is going to wave his magic wand at any of us, even for your friend she was the one doing the actual job of ivesting the time, energy and focus on the scriptures.
T wont directly lessen by prayers nor prayers, but the stress which might be a contributing factor to the t, has proven to decrease. I acknowledge the state of mind you acheive by prayer, but for some it takes practice to enter the state of trance, and the capability of entering clearly differs from you to you friend.

Again, don't cling on to the overnight success. Knowing that meditation and it's scientific effects on the body makes you capable of handling stressful factors with calmness by changing the perception of threats, which you see as the hardest thing, I ask you again.. instead of praying here and there, having someone external preach for you, visiting a healing church, will you try doing it the way proven to be sufficient?

Besides I already did exactly acknowledge the power of prayer. The belief of the source to its' power has just been proven to have the same effect, whether you pray to God, Lord Voldemort or any other character from a good book.

 

@Tenna,

Overnight success is indeed what has made the most significant results when looking at prayers in comparison with all the other solution orientated acts of treatment (sorry, I'm not English). Those who have experienced miracles have most often experienced it at the moment they pray. Please read former description, you can also see the video that I attached to Markkus response. What is a common feature with everything related to what you call "scientifically proven" is a very weak result rate, if any at all. Since I joined this forum in June I've been reading alot of stories and almost everyone of them share the same frustration of treatment methods not having any effect. Perhaps you should try to analyze that and open your mind. I included the total treatment list in my post because you seemed to be asking me to try other things, so the natural response to that would be to inform you of these initiatives.

I don't wanna walk in circles with you on this Tenna and I don't think it serves any purpose. Try yoga, try mediation, try praying to the trees in the forest or sing ancient songs. It doesn't really matter, the essence here is to discuss and debate alternative treatment methods and the topic here is prayers and miracles. I've openly shared my personal experience with praying, if you have read it you will see that it did NOT work like a miracle for me BUT it lead to some other quite strange and responsive things that's it's hard to avoid thinking about. It is this factor that I'm trying to embrace, all in the name of possibility.

alternative:
/ɔːlˈtəːnətɪv,ɒl-/
adjective
adjective: alternative

1. (of one or more things) available as another possibility or choice.
"the various alternative methods for resolving disputes"synonyms: different, other, another, second, possible, substitute, replacement;

 

First of all, what you refer to as scientifically proven studies with weak result rates, if any at all, is a vague term covering Many studies conducted on the subject, showing signifact improvement.
If significant studies of a general proven effect on the masses is vague, I don't know what 2 miracles in an ocean of disorders are.
Since I joined the forum, most of those writing they wanted to try meditation, or prayer at the same pace as you, are in the same situation. Miracle did not strike, and one of the first tips youre met with is 'Give up finding the magic pill'. The frustration turn into in sheer desperation as people turn to the hope for instant relief, which is going nowhere.

I didn't ask you to try other things, I asked you to go into meditation/praying wholehearthed. I asked you to try to approach it with another mindset than expecting a miracle, the mindset you've been dissappointed with every other treatment to this point.
I am openminded, I did acknowledge prayer as a valid alternative treatment. The belief of something pseudo is a personal choice, however the effects reached is the same.
Per, You raised the questions about the mechanics behind, encouraing a debate and discussion on the matter

Is this here where I post a definition of debate..
Don't post with the intention of debating, when you get angry as debate starts. What's up with starting a debate, that you don't want to debate? Karma gets one every time.
Meditation, prayer, a state of trance, it's the same thing.

 

I'm not angry at all. Life is too short. If not agreeing with you is being angry then you need to re arrange the way you look at other opinions Tenna, I mean that in a friendly way. You need to respect that other people don't have the same view as you without having to attack or judge them. I use TT with good intentions and this thread obviously caught your attention, so the topic captivates and with good reason. So please take it easy, be glad that this forum is diverse and embrace the opportunity to exchange experiences. The important thing here is not to win a conversation, which I feel your are trying to do now. I have exchanged a lot of experiences and shared processes with a great deal of people here on TT and that's never been a problem. Not for me, not for them. Expand and embrace! I'm surprised you are so tense and suspicious since you are advocating a low stress behavior and meditation.

Not every reply that is returned "over the net" is dangerous or threatening. Well, thanks for your contribution and good luck on your T strategies - and remember to laugh. Let's leave it at that.

 

@Markku,

Since I know you enjoy the documentary format here's a tip in general regards to the topic:

http://www.thegodquestion.tv/broadcast/series/the_cosmos

The series is called "(The God Question - The Cosmos) I'm watching the first episode now (1:3) as it airs on national broadcasting here. Don't know if it's been on in Suomi.